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My "install all packages" comment was directed to this:
As for not using OpenBSD "just to try", that's because the typical attitude of casual users is "I don't have the time to figure this out, so someone please tell me how to do it". Everything about OpenBSD is documented in the FAQ (just like FreeBSD), or in one of the hundreds of beautiful man pages. People who actually have a real purpose to use the OS are going to take the time to read about what they are trying to do and understand it. Someone who is "just playing" typically doesn't even have a clear idea about what they want to do, let alone the patience to read the instructions. No one wants to help that kind of user--they're a nuisance.
There isn't much to "learn" about OpenBSD. If you follow the FAQ you have a functional system setup in an hour or two... then what? Well you have a very secure, very minimal box. There aren't dozens of knobs and dials to turn and explore, and there's no fancy GUI to navigate through (you could install a WM, but there isn't a system default with all kinds of control-panels). So what are you going to "learn"? OpenBSD is just a minimalist installation of UNIX (407MB on disk in my typical install) with a lot of specialized daemons for professional-grade networking, but it's certainly not something a casual home-user is going to appreciate.
OpenBSD users tend to be networking & security professionals and enthusiasts. If you're not a networking junky, chances are OpenBSD won't be very interesting.
How do you know I didn't read the OpenBSD FAQ? I'm a voracious reader and I took the trouble to plod through the FAQ before even downloading the minimal install ISO. Just because I posted a thread about OpenBSD, doesn't mean I'm a total newbie to UNIX in general.
Actually reading the installation guide, it wasn't very clear on how to set up a dual boot. That's why I was wondering whether it was worth trying out. I also don't need to be told what the purpose of OpenBSD is. I know already and I still want to "try it out". And I will continue to post about my experience on this forum to get the opinion of other, more experienced BSD users.
And besides, technically this thread was not to ask questions. It was to share an experience and find out how other people in the *NIX community feel about OpenBSD in particular. If that kind of enthusiasm is alien to BSD users, maybe I was wrong to do so. If you still consider me a nuisance, you can feel free to ignore my future posts in this forum.
I'm not going to stop posting here until Jeremy closes this forum or declares that *BSD newbies have no right to ask questions.
As for OpenBSD being a minimal OS, what's so wrong about not wanting to see how "minimal" it really is? I would still like to find out how much I can learn to do within OpenBSD. By itself the minimalism is a challenge for me (and others) to try it out and figure how far I can get.
Last edited by vharishankar; 08-13-2008 at 10:23 PM.
Actually reading the installation guide, it wasn't very clear on how to set up a dual boot. That's why I was wondering whether it was worth trying out.
I have done multi-booting OpenBSD and XP several times and it's not hard at all. First you install XP and then OpenBSD. You then have to log on to OpenBSD and create the .pbr file as described in http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting. Put it in a thumb drive and add it to XP's boot.ini file as [OpenBSD] and you are done.
I have done multi-booting OpenBSD and XP several times and it's not hard at all. First you install XP and then OpenBSD. You then have to log on to OpenBSD and create the .pbr file as described in http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting. Put it in a thumb drive and add it to XP's boot.ini file as [OpenBSD] and you are done.
My current problem is the one with DiskLabel. On my system it's showing a lot of entries, but I didn't create them (probably the FreeBSD installer did this). I have no idea which of them is the pre-existing windows partition as it doesn't show up any partition as NTFS.
I even tried deleting the FreeBSD partition and recreating a new BSD A6 partition, but that doesn't seem to have helped.
Distribution: OpenBSD 4.6, OS X 10.6.2, CentOS 4 & 5
Posts: 3,660
Rep:
...and I'm posting my comments as a 5-year OpenBSD veteran. It's not daunting, but the community is not what you find of a typical Linux OS. With Linux, everyone will try to convince you that their distribution is the best and you should try it. With OpenBSD, they actually don't want to make it very popular.
They aren't trying to convince everyone to use it, because they don't want to hand-hold and teach new users. OpenBSD is mainly for system architects/consultants who use commercial UNIX OSs, and/or network architects/consultants who use commercial enterprise-grade networking gear. OpenBSD is designed to be intuitive for people experience with Cisco firewalls, Juniper routers, etc. It's a low-cost, drop-in replacement for those functions.
...and I'm posting my comments as a 5-year OpenBSD veteran. It's not daunting, but the community is not what you find of a typical Linux OS. With Linux, everyone will try to convince you that their distribution is the best and you should try it. With OpenBSD, they actually don't want to make it very popular.
They aren't trying to convince everyone to use it, because they don't want to hand-hold and teach new users. OpenBSD is mainly for system architects/consultants who use commercial UNIX OSs, and/or network architects/consultants who use commercial enterprise-grade networking gear. OpenBSD is designed to be intuitive for people experience with Cisco firewalls, Juniper routers, etc. It's a low-cost, drop-in replacement for those functions.
Precisely. Being a UNIX veteran, you wouldn't find it daunting. I was just pointing out that all Linux users cannot easily understand this Operating System - especially those not familiar with the basic *nix commands, but a basic knowledge of the UNIX commands and shell definitely helps. Also the OpenBSD documentation seems to cover just about everything.
I know you're not convincing us to use OBSD, but to be fair, that's one of the things that attracted me to OBSD. I love exploring relatively less known (to the general populace) technology and that's why I am looking at OpenBSD as a learning tool as well. Similarly I'm interested in other less known and less used OSes.
I'm finding OpenBSD to be more logical and interesting than FreeBSD. For instance, configuring the network in OpenBSD (the hostname.if file) seems to be a better way than putting all the network related stuff in /etc/rc.conf. Also the OpenBSD wireless setup actually worked for me whereas in FreeBSD I was not getting any connection in spite of my repeated efforts.
In all honesty, I would stop using Linux if I can get all the hardware to work on BSD. I am not sure whether there is support for USB devices, digital cameras, WizardPen graphics tablet and pen, general multimedia and so on, which I use regularly on Linux.
But as you have rightly observed, that's not the focus or priority of OpenBSD.
Last edited by vharishankar; 08-15-2008 at 03:05 AM.
With OpenBSD, they actually don't want to make it very popular.
More to the point, the target audience for the OpenBSD project is its developers. The fact that the code base is open to all such that anyone else can install & use it is secondary. Because the focus isn't to placate users, the developers do what they feel is best as long as it matches both the stated goals of the project as directed by Theo. Is it perfect? No, but I find it to be the most consistent & stable of all the Unixes, & I use it on a daily basis.
More to the point, the target audience for the OpenBSD project is its developers. The fact that the code base is open to all such that anyone else can install & use it is secondary. Because the focus isn't to placate users, the developers do what they feel is best as long as it matches both the stated goals of the project as directed by Theo. Is it perfect? No, but I find it to be the most consistent & stable of all the Unixes, & I use it on a daily basis.
I believe they raise funds for the project by selling official CDs (and they don't even put the official ISOs for download) and if their own developers are the only target, why are they selling merchandise, T-shirts, music etc.?
How is it consistent with that stand of being a "strictly businesslike OS"?
I genuinely don't want to sound hostile, but I am getting conflicting signals on this.
Last edited by vharishankar; 08-15-2008 at 08:06 AM.
Reading some of the posts in this thread only further confirms my belief that OpenBSD is not the OS for me.
Why should I bother trying to force a square peg into a round hole?
I want a functional desktop, and Linux provides it. End of story.
I've come round to the same conclusion and that's exactly the view of the OpenBSD community itself;
But at the same time, I have a strong urge to "try out"/"play with" (which is apparently frowned upon) OpenBSD if only to satisfy my own curiosity as to how far I can push it
But I definitely like the OpenBSD system administration approach over Linux. Seems more organized and logical than even FreeBSD.
Last edited by vharishankar; 08-15-2008 at 08:51 AM.
Distribution: OpenBSD 4.6, OS X 10.6.2, CentOS 4 & 5
Posts: 3,660
Rep:
Quote:
Originally Posted by harishankar
I believe they raise funds for the project by selling official CDs (and they don't even put the official ISOs for download) and if their own developers are the only target, why are they selling merchandise, T-shirts, music etc.?
They raise funds so they can pay developers to work on OpenBSD exclusively for a period of time, and to buy hardware to test on.
I want a functional desktop, and Linux provides it. End of story.
Awesome...
Everyone has their reason(s) for switching to <insert_random_OS>, and not all reason(s) are the same. If you've found an OS you're happy with, by all means use it and enjoy it...no one else can tell you the right OS for you.
Security has always been my primary concern, and currently OpenBSD provides a much greater degree of security (even to the point of it getting in the way of functionality sometimes) than Linux or Windows or whatever...so I run OpenBSD. Should that change in the future, however, I'll likely be switching to something else (though honestly I don't forsee that happening).
Point I'm getting at is that it's good to keep an open mind and try new things...there's nothing wrong with "trying it out for the heck of it", regardless what one community or another tells you.
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