@Battered Fish: "They are wasting their time and ours. Instead of this distraction they could concentrate on getting a Slackware release every year instead of 5 years and counting."

I totally agree with your opinion.

I'm just a 'dumb' user, and if I don't like the way Slackware has been heading for the past few years, well then I can always fork off - yes I know that. But is Slackware targeted for a fan base or a user base? Let's just make that clear. Does Slackware want to become a rolling test release? Ok then just tell us so we'll know. If Slackware is meant for the tinkerer only - fine but at least tell the user.

Looking over the last 20 or so date entries in the Changelog file I see some important changes but so many that could have been postponed as patches later.

Some people may reply and say "but current works for me, its so stable'.

How many kernel, kde changes? It works for me too if I constantly update this and that then redo the initram, and then some packages break from SBo I have to use, (yes, yes thank goodness for ponce!) But for me rolling along with Slackware is like a video game, without the video. I used to have friends and family use Slackware as well. Now I am the only one.

I like Slackware for technical reasons and sentimental ones but I struggle to keep using it! I really think that the way it is being managed is not good for the user base.

I suggest that instead of doing a survey whether python 3.9 or 10 is better, those that control Slackware should do a survey of the user base (not the fan base) to see what the real users would like Slackware to become. If I'm wrong ok, at least we'll all know who we really are.

And yes I have paid my dues $$$ to Slackware in the past,
ok I'll fork off now.

I joined LQ recently to see if there was any chance at a next stable release any time soon. Your observations strike home and I am concerned that there will never be another stable release. I need to make a decision soon on switching some online services for the company I work with and although they are currently running Slackware, I can not upgrade the company web services to use the framework they require. Even php is too old, and openssl in Slackware 14.2 is so old, it is not even safe to use online.
If I have to upgrade from Slackware 14.2 now, it would have to be towards another stable OS and looking at the Slackware64-current changes it is not stable at all. I would hate to be forced to say good-bye to Slackware but I do not see an alternative.

I used to be of the same opinion. However, as things have evolved it seems to me that slackware is in effect the creation of a talented person who has his own view of what a "good" distribution should be like. Users get to use it if they want, but that person values his privacy and does not get to tell you whether slackware stable releases are now on a 2, 4 or 6 year (or some other) cycle, what the criteria for a new stable release are, whether slackware has become in effect a rolling release, or anything else about his vision (if any) for the future. Slackware is there freely available and the product of considerable personal effort. You get to use it if you want and if you do you make your bets on accepting whatever happens to come.

I value slackware's package system and in particular the fact that it does not enforce dependencies: I don't want rpm or apt. So I use it for the moment knowing that at any point a time might come when I have had enough of my side of the arrangement. I would prefer it to be otherwise but that is how it appears to be.

I am perfectly fine with Patrick deciding alone what Slackware is and its future. As the maintainer of a derivative of Slackware, not knowing if and how he intends to make evolve its release model is a worry. So, I am weighing my options for the future of Slint. As a home user, I would switch from a Linux distribution to a BSD system.

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Personally I think that the way Pat is handling -current is in line with his methodology from the very beginning.

Python 3.10 torched my dev environment for linuxgalaxy.org so I can't easily pull and custom numbers, but here's some context:

The average number of updates per year has dramatically increased in the past few years. 15.0 will include more upgrades and overhauls than every version from 12.0-14.2 so it makes sense that Pat is slow to finish

You can dive into the numbers here but the site is kind of moody right now: https://www.linuxgalaxy.org/lcp/Slackware/

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I had a real issue with huge amount of python scripts stop working. Shook my head was like how come. Man All this work and none of my stuff works. Remember current used 3.07 , 3.08 , 3.09 .

The issue I see was that the added digit 3.10.0 caused the issue. Python3 should be able to find all python3 scripts. well.
Not true with 3.10.0 it will in the future be able to see all 3.10.0?
So when the /usr/bin/python didn't look for 3.09 and lower this was the issue.
As you can see default python is set to 2.7 not 3.09.

So then I invoked the python3 to make sure that wasn't the issue.
That meant hundreds and hundreds of packages needed to be rebuilt.
This caused most issues for the people on Slackbuilds that provide a ready made package.
This takes away the reverse compatibility.
python3-3.10.0 is here to stay get rebuilding.

This has been a huge nightmare for me and all My stuff on the Bitbucket. Github wasn't the issue since it went to newer system.
but bitbucket and slackware current openssh has been a crazy fight. they are trying to fix it.
Back to waiting for bitbucket to catch up with slackware-current.
slackware 14.2 can use openssh.8.8 just build install it.
Slackware current switched all my stuff to id_ed25519
Except bitbucket

User base? I was surprised greatly of volkerdi thread which version of python to use. I suspect it is kind of test. And we failed this test. We are completely useless to help in making decisions. Can we do something useful instead sitting in bar drinking beer, smoking cigarettes, talking about life - kind of Woody Allen movie. I'm afraid old user base is just too old. For us I afraid it would be easier to switch distribution. Everything what is happening now happened in past. Never x.0 releases were particularly stable. Slackware didn't change. We changed. Just bunch of old coglers, who are too lazy to move even a finger. We just sit, wait and complain hey waiter where's my meal?

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Hello igadoter! very good post, makes me laugh. you are a good writer.

My thoughts about OP message is he/she? only wants a stable release. he/she? asks for
some responsibility to simple everyday users (like me too!) to support them with a stable release. he/she? does not say to change Slackware-current proceeding the way it is.

But I have concluded that Slackware is a hobby only. It is a reason for the 'fan base'
ctrondheim talks about. So as a hobby the wishes of volkerdi rule. That is either ok or not but that is the way it is. This is all just my thoughts and I could be wrong about everything. To use Linux for real work one cannot use Slackware. Real work is running, a hospital lab, a business, and university research stuff: i.e. work that requires many different users, repeatable configurations and easy maintenance upgrades.
Some time ago I think a university professor on LQ said something similar to this. He too did not realize that Slackware is a hobby. Most Slackers are hobbists (which is ok too).

Like Didier Spaier I too have started learning BSD at home, but not to replace Slackware, instead to use for real work at hospital lab where I work.

He probably thought "will they say ..."
3.10 :"what? 3.10? Amazing! Slackware 15 will be great! And bonus feature : everything works perfectly. We will be quiet for a long time"
or
3.9 : "oh noooo, I will have to recompile all my python stuff ... please stay with 3.9"

Slackware may be oldschool, but thankfully it is a school. The point of slackware is learning what's under the hood: by the time you graduate, the rolling release feel to -current is but the gentle swells of the sea while steering your custom vessel.

Honestly most of the people who say they want 3.10 haven't offered a meaningful reason. Given all the fluffy explanations I've seen for keeping 3.10 I would count each of their votes at 0.5. All of the reasons to keep 3.9 have to do with empirical evidence, e.g. something is currently broken.


There are several lessons to be learned here about package management and software releases but here on the internet, everyone is an expert. Those who don't understand the merits behind keeping 3.9 might want to ask people why it's such a big deal. Heck, they might even learn something

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Based on comments from Pat, /usr/bin/python will continue to point to python2 until python2 is removed. Then the /usr/bin/python command will go away. That does not mean that python2 is the default.

In fact, it's upstream that doesn't set a /usr/bin/python symlink for python3, but it does for python2. So, as Pat frequently does, he's using upstream defaults.

With the transition from python2 to python3, I'm surprised anyone relies on the /usr/bin/python symlink. All scripts should be updated to use the python2 or python3 commands, just to get rid of any ambiguity.

If you look at the history of Slackware, Pat has never really held back -current when it might break 3rd-party software. He's broken Nvidia drivers many times over the years by upgrading the kernel beyond what the driver currently supported.

-current is designed to be cutting edge and breakages like this should be expected (even if they are rare). That being said, I'm a little surprised this change was made with us being in an RC status, but at the same time, I don't think Pat expected this many issues would pop up... but once the change is made, we might as well stick with it. The broken software will catch up or become obsolete.

Based on how long this development cycle is and the unknown of what future development cycles might be, the longer we can have the software supported, the better off that stable version will be.

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It is about python version in stable release. Not -current. I can imagine that stable 15.0 will be shipped with python 3.9 while -current with 3.10. For reasons you posted.

Technically python is a language and should be treated as such from a package maintenance perspective. Some people get all excited about running the latest version they forget that it needs to stay put.

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Speaking for myself, I use Slackware in my business every day. In combination with other technologies, I have found it to be bulletproof. I'd use Slackware before any others because it doesn't bring the baggage that all of the others carry.
You're welcome to have this opinion, but please don't present it as fact.
Of course you realise that all of the *BSD maintainers are hobbyists, right??

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