What politic of repeating lies, FUD and disinformation you seen from the Darth Vader part?

You blame him that dared to tell you the truth? That we should not accept excesive hardware requirements as a given?

Darth Vader said long time ago that the Plasma5 is still broken, but also he actively put efforts to fix it.

He proposed patches for ATI driver, for X.org, and tested careful every Plasma5 build in the last 6 months.

And before to read that Patrick Volkerding favors the "latest and greatest" Plasma5 instead of LTS, I've read the Darth Vader's comments that the 5.13.2 behave better than the LTS.

I have the priviledge to see on my own computer behavior the results of Darth Vader efforts: a better Plasma5.

Months ago it crashed several times on a day. Artifacts, KWin crashes and other things.

You, Sir, you are the one who say unkind words and expose a radicalism which maybe make some people to think.

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It helps to read the thread before you jump in.

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I've already commented on this subject.
And permit me to comment further that "what if" and how I see myself the situation.

We known certainly that Plasma5 depends hard on systemd-logind features for Wayland.

I do not know how relevant is for Slackware that Wayland, but there's the luck that those features are emulated today by at least one other independent project, that elogind.

I am not pro or against systemd. In fact, I think I used it several years under Fedora, and it never bothered me.

But apparently everyone use this systemd, excluding several distributions, like Slackware or Devuan.

I do not exclude that in the future that Plasma5 will not use even more features given by systemd, if the KDE programmers believe that is useful. Because I am not a programmer, to have the experience to predict their intentions.

Still I believe that that "what if" was just a rethoric, based on a certain fact explained later by Eric Hameleers, used by Darth Vader to argument against Arch based arguments in our Plasma5 case.

And I suppose this demonstrates Alien Bob's point that mentioning FUD about systemd here just fuels the fire and leads to beating a dead horse. Surely Darth Vader knows this by this point and is still more than willing to continue doing it...

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Very long post, stopped reading after this.

Hence my question, until the FUD stops. Which it probably never will. It seems the question of the thread is answered by reality. I have been using slacklive with Plasma 5.13 in a VM. Very responsive and bug free and it seems amongst the vocal, the sane ones, that the issues of stability, performance, mentioned before and in other threads are solved. My opinion means crap, but from my observations Plasma 5.13 is ready as is. It is the Plasma I have had hopes of becoming what it is, and to work as flawlessly as it does in a VM and the speed it does with my hardware amazes me.

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Ok, let's bash the thick skulls again :-)

Wrong.
KWin_wayland uses the logind API. It is not depending on any implementation of said API. The fact that systemd-logind is the first implementation of that API does not equal a "hard dependency on systemd-logind features".

Wrong and wrong.
It is not about "emulating features" but about implementing an API. And "elogind" is not an independent project. Actually it is the very source code of systemd-logind but it has been modified to compile and function independently of the rest of systemd. Just like eudev (already part of Slackware) consists of the systemd-udev source code with modifications to make it compile and function independently of the rest of systemd.
On the other hand, the ConsoleKit2 implementation of the logind API, which is still incomplete, is in fact an independent implementation.

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I've been testing the latest -current with KDE Plasma 5 and it is as stable as I've seen it yet. Nothing crashes, all of the bugs I noticed previously are gone. I am testing in a VM running with qemu-kvm. My old laptop (low budget ATI graphics) overheats too much so I don't use it unless I absolutely have to. My host system has an Intel graphics card. I do not recall ever seeing any Intel specific bugs in the past but I can spin up a live cd of Slackware-current KDE plasma 5 at a later date if Intel graphics need testing.

I personally feel that KDE 5 is ready for Slackware-current. The sooner it gets included the more testing will get done on a larger scale.

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I've found this to be the case as well since KDE4, so for me this is not a new development.

Shame, because I *loved* Kmail in the KDE 1.x - 3.x days. My theory as to what happened was that they became over-ambitious around 3.2 when Kontact transformed kmail et al from a nice mailreader and accompanying applications to a "PIM suite." It worked well for a while, but I think whatever team of developers hoisted Kontact to the forefront in 3.2, the current devteam haven't been able to keep up with the lofty ambitions that brought us Kontact in the first place.

I think if KDE would just focus on producing a nice, simple mailreader as opposed to a "PIM suite," things would fare much better. As it stands right now, Thunderbird has also become useless for me. I *cannot* coax it to get it to work with my private IMAP server, no matter what I do. I use a self-signed certificate, which I know is wrong, and blah blah blah, but I wish it would just stay out of my way and do what I say! It's a private server, and I know it's not insecure to connect to it, because it's mine! I own it!

Long story short, I use Seamonkey Mail to read my mail and have for quite a long time now. It's really the only mailreader that stays out of my way and meets my needs.

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Let me pour some water over the fire, too.

Last summer, I tutored one of our interns, who implemented the timedated interface (see https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Sof...emd/timedated/) (long story short, we got some components at $work that are delivered to us as big steaming piles of statically-linked binaries that want to talk to some systemd components, but our devices don't run a systemd userland). It took him about ten days to implement it, three of which were spent learning D-Bus. Realistically, if you already know D-Bus and have the Linux Programming Interface close by ('cause Chapter 10 is magic stuff, man...), you can get something good enough in two afternoons.

There are many questionable choices that systemd designers made, but using a widely-available IPC mechanism isn't one of them, and they keep the interface relatively stable. As long as applications can find the right D-Bus endpoints on the bus and someone's answering with the right incantations on them, they don't care if it's systemd-timedated or not-systemd-timedated-but-closed that they're talking to.

If more dependencies are going to be added, I'm pretty certain that the community will come up with useful alternatives. OpenBSD did it in order to run Gnome 3, for example, and they're a much smaller community compared to the entire Linux community.

(I am allowed to mention OpenBSD here, right? Is it l33t enough for you guys?)

There are some systemd components that aren't bus-enabled (networkd comes to mind) but that also tends to discourage third-party adoption in userland.

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I had the time to test KDE Plasma 5 today (noticing this thread gave me the courage :-) ). The latest distro seemed to be Kubuntu, 18.04.01 and made a live USB. I have found it very responsive given my hardware and I liked it. I will try Alien Bob's version this weekend and I'm sure it will be much better than Kubuntu's. Still, being responsive and snappy should not be the sole criterion to judge a DE. Actually installing and using it for a while is a must.

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I've have not been "testing" Plasma 5 I've been using it since it became available in Ktown. I use it here on this Slackware64-current machine, my wife uses it on her Slackware64-current laptop, and I am using it on a Slackware64-current laptop we use at an small non-profit organization. I have received zero complaints from anyone regarding using Plasma 5.

As I have stated before, I hope Plasma 5 becomes part of Slackware, I think it is ready. If it doesn't, so be it. I will decide what to do at that point. There have been some alternatives suggested. I am glad Eric has said he will continue with Plasma 5, if the 'l series' gets cleaned up; which I am certain will happen, regardless of the final Slackware 15.0 result. For now I am happy to be using Slackware, with Plasma 5.

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I've been using kde 5 / plasma from ktown in Slackware-current too, and it works quite well. Even suspend with nvidia card worked and nothing broke in the desktop. I advocate for its inclusion in the future release of Slackware, and in this case, I agree that going to the bleeding edge have its benefits.

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Do you use nvidia's binary drivers? The post-suspend glitches, IIRC, are due to some buffers which Nouveau preserves, but nvidia doesn't.

I use NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-396.45.run drivers with a Geforce GTX-1080. No glitches so far