Slackware/Xfce vs. Slackware/KDE

Hi everybody --- long time no see. I hope all are well.

I've been a KDE user for as long as I have used GNU/Linux, but the latest Xfce has pinched my curiosity. Unlike Xfce, however, KDE comes bundled with many apps. Comparing Xfce to KDE-Base would be a fair comparison, but all those additional apps make KDE a fine end product. Xfce does not come directly packaged with such tools. Partly because the GTK environment tends to be more wide open and such direct support is not really necessarily. However, the stock Slackware does not provide many of those equivalent GTK packages.

I have Slackware 12 installed and please understand that all the KDE apps run fine within Xfce. They are slow to load, of course, unless I enable the option to automatically load KDE libraries at startup. Doable, yes, and works fine. However, in this thread I want to focus solely on a GTK based environment for Xfce, which is the native environment for Xfce.

Some Xfce based Slackware derivative distros attempt to remedy that hole, such as Zenwalk or Wolvix. Such a route is reasonable for some folks, but for now I prefer to remain rooted in the stock Slackware. But where do I obtain many of these GTK packages that improves Xfce in a productive way? I'm not a hard-core hacker and lack the time and hardware to become one. I also want to keep my system "clean" by only using Slackware packages, not any hodge-podge "make install."

I could download and test the packages included in Zenwalk or Wolvix and most likely those packages would function fine in the stock Slackware. Still, I would prefer to see packages at linuxpackages.net or better yet, SlackBuilds at SlackBuilds.org. I can create packages with a good SlackBuild and I have done that many times for smaller packages. And I am aware of src2pkg although I have not yet tested that solution.

My humble request here is for some of you wonderful SlackBuild hackers to create and upload SlackBuild packages to SlackBuild.org. (Packages and SlackBuild scripts likely can be borrowed from Zenwalk or Wolvix to use a base.)

Here is a partial list:

gURLChecker: replacement for KLinkStatus, a GUI web site link verifier
Meld: replacement for Kompare/Kdiff3 (GUI front end for diff) (available at Wolvix)
GNUmeric (or other spreadsheet): replacement for KSpread (available at Zenwalk and Wolvix)
gksu: replacement for kdesu (available at Zenwalk and Wolvix])
Gnomebaker: replacements for K3B (available at Zenwalk and Wolvix)
Evince: replacement for KPDF (available at Zenwalk and Wolvix)
UrlGfe: replacement for KGet (available at Zenwalk)
GHex: replacement for KHexEditor (available at Zenwalk)

Unknown GTK replacements:
???: replacement for KFindFile (which supports in-file string searches)
???: replacement for KFileReplace (which supports global string replacements; see PowerGrep in Windows)
???: replacement for various KDE multimedia players
???: replacement for KFormula editor
???: replacement for KThesaurus
???: replacement for KSysguard
???: replacement for KUser
???: replacement for KCron
???: replacement for KChmviewer

I am aware that Robbie has an OpenOffice package and SlackBuild script available, but I want to keep this thread restricted to GTK apps. The goal being that Xfce provides better potential for using older hardware, on which huge apps like OpenOffice often are not an option. Thanks.

I also am looking for a GTK email client that fully supports both composing and reading rich text format (HTML mail). I am unfamiliar with the many GNU/Linux email clients and a simple word or two would help me in my search. Thunderbird is an option, but I want to avoid XUL apps --- XUL is slower than native widgets and libraries and not friendly to older hardware. (Please refrain from religiosity about HTML mail. I need basic rich text formatting for business. )

To help future visitors to this thread, I already have discovered several GTK packages or SlackBuild scripts currently available for the stock Slackware (check SlackBuilds.org and linuxpackages.net):

Xarchiver: replacement for KArchiver
Geany and Medit: replacements for Kate
Abiword: replacement for KWord
Bluefish: replacement for Quanta Plus
Inkscape: replacement for Krita
Gparted: a partition manager front end for parted
XPad: replacement for KNotes
Galculator: replacement for KCalc
GQView: replacement for KView and Kuickshow image browsers

There are some Xfce plugins too:

xfce4-mount-plugin: replacement for Kwikdisk
xfce4-clipman-plugin: replacement for Klipper
thunar-archive-plugin: archiver program hook for Thunar
orage: replacement for KAlarm

One feature missing from Xfce is supporting simple screen captures to the clipboard using the Print Screen and Alt-Print Screen keys. Nothing fancy, just an uncomplicated and straightforward capture to the clipboard. I posted a request at the Xfce forum, but if anybody here knows a skilled Xfce plugin hacker, please forward the request to that person and I will help test and write/edit documentation. Update: I have discovered a screen capture plugin for Xfce. The package is included in Zenwalk and some other distros but is not listed at the Xfce plugin site. The name of the plugin is Xfce-screenshooter-plugin. My very quick survey indicates the plugin works much like KSnapshot but I did not discover whether the plugin is or can be mapped to the Print Screen and Alt-Print Screen keys.

I realize that some of the GUI replacement tools I seek can be performed through the command line. Yet I want to restrict this thread to GUI apps, not command line ingenuity. Thanks.

My goal is not to create another Zenwalk or Wolvix, but to help myself and other Slackers improve the Xfce environment while continuing to use Slackware rather than other distros.

I am prepared to help test any packages or SlackBuilds created. I will edit and update this post as I learn of any packages or SlackBuild scripts I missed in my searching. Being a KDE person and unfamiliar with GTK I am sure I missed some apps and packages along the way.

Please feel free to add or amend this thread as necessary. Perhaps this thread eventually can become sticky as a Slackware community bulletin board of equivalent GTK apps to replace KDE apps. Thanks everybody.

Note: Edited to update lists.

I know I've already posted this in another thread, but I have build scripts for most of the Xfce panel plugins and Thunar plugins on my personal site. I'm planning to get them pushed to SlackBuilds.org sooner or later, but there's simply no time right now.

Robby, I was aware of your web site and I am grateful for all you contribute! Thanks for replying.

Not addressed to Robby or anybody in particular, since my original post I have discovered a screen capture plugin for Xfce. The package is included in Zenwalk and some other distros but is not listed at the Xfce plugin site. The name of the plugin is Xfce-screenshooter-plugin. My very quick survey indicates the plugin works much like KSnapshot but I did not discover whether the plugin is or can be mapped to the Print Screen and Alt-Print Screen keys.

I did a full install of Slackware 12, it runs very well indeed. All of the KDE applications are available in my XFce panel. The KDE apps function quite well in XFce. Did you do a custom install of Slack 12? More power to you in your project, Woodsman:-)

Did you do a custom install of Slack 12?

Ah, I should have explained better and I will edit my original post. All the KDE apps run fine within Xfce. They are slow to load, of course, unless I enable the option to automatically load KDE libraries at startup. Doable, yes and works fine. However, in this thread I wanted to focus solely on a GTK based environment for Xfce.

Originally Posted by Woodsman Ah, I should have explained better and I will edit my original post. All the KDE apps run fine within Xfce. They are slow to load, of course, unless I enable the option to automatically load KDE libraries at startup. Doable, yes and works fine. However, in this thread I wanted to focus solely on a GTK based environment for Xfce.

Thanks for the explanation. Yes, KDE apps are a bit slow to load. Best wishes with this project:-)

Gnormalize is a quite good GTK+ audio converter (http://gnormalize.sourceforge.net). There's a package in the 11.0 slacky.eu repo. It was conveniently included on Wolvix, so I'm not sure of the particulars of installing it from source.

As for email, the only one that springs to mind is Sylpheed and I think that only reads html email.

Originally Posted by Eternal_Newbie As for email, the only one that springs to mind is Sylpheed and I think that only reads html email.

Sylpheed is a very nice e-mail client, it runs very light and fast in Xfce. I'm running Sylpheed-2.4.4:-) Sylpheed gets my vote as a good addition to XFce.

XFCE's AppFinder fails to find a lot of programs. Is there some way to improve it, or a GTK+ replacement? Any GTK+ file-finders?

As for email, the only one that springs to mind is Sylpheed and I think that only reads html email.

Just the opposite, plain text only. The dev version, claws (a separate project now) does html, I believe.

Dennisk

Originally Posted by dennisk Just the opposite, plain text only. The dev version, claws (a separate project now) does html, I believe. Dennisk

That is actually what I meant, Sylpheed (and Claws) read and write plain text emails but only read html. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

I know of 2 GTK CHM readers. xCHM seems quite decent, but it uses wxGTK. I don't know if that is an issue for you.

I haven't used CHMsee, but it is pure GTK.

Thanks everybody for the responses thus far. I hope this thread will continue to grow.

I noticed the GNOME Slacky project. I wonder whether there might be some helpful overlap from that project toward improving the Xfce foundations for using additional GTK apps. Perhaps Xfce can be easily fortified with a minimal install of GNOME Slacky by installing the basic GTK/GNOME core and bindings. Perhaps somebody here who is familiar with GTK, GNOME Slacky, and Xfce might post some comments or a mini how-to about using GNOME Slacky to improve the barebones default Xfce. I am inclined to believe as much because I have been modestly attempting to compile and install various GTK foundation packages in order to support my effort to install GTK apps equivalent to those found in the KDE world. Anybody here want to add their thoughts on that idea?

XFCE's AppFinder fails to find a lot of programs. Is there some way to improve it, or a GTK+ replacement? Any GTK+ file-finders?

Zenwalk comes packaged with Catfish (renamed Search4Files), but unfortunately that package only supports file name searches and not string searches within documents. Odd, considering the Windows File Find utility has supported basic string searching since Windows 95 and the KFileFind utility has supported string searches for a long time too. I would like to find GTK equivalents of the KDE KFileFind and KFileReplace programs. I could improve my slocate and grep skills to search for text strings with files, but replacing strings on-the-fly is (for me) quicker and easier with a GUI front-end. In Windows I have been using PowerGrep for years and KFileReplace is similar. Many non command line people who want to use GNU/Linux will find such GUI front-ends helpful too. Perhaps GNOME Slacky comes with a better file search utility than the Xfce AppFinder?

I know of 2 GTK CHM readers. xCHM seems quite decent, but it uses wxGTK. I don't know if that is an issue for you.

The thrust of this thread is if Xfce is going to grow and mature into a bona fide desktop environment then much more is needed than the nominal foundation Xfce creates. The Xfce developers are not going to support anything but what they are doing, so distro maintainers and end-users must create that more useful environment. I would prefer the scope of this thread to be limited to GTK apps, but if a utility exists only in wxGTK format then such a tool will have to suffice. As I mentioned in my original post, Zenwalk and Wolvix are already heading down the path to create a more productive Xfce environment, but within the scope of this thread, I'm looking for ways to improve Xfce only within the stock Slackware.

Originally Posted by Woodsman I also want to keep my system "clean" by only using Slackware packages, not any hodge-podge "make install."

You do realize that when someone makes a Slackware package they are just going to do a "hodge-podge 'make install'" into a packaging tree, write an info block and maybe a short script, and you will be installing the result? About the only difference is the ability to remove it with pkgtool and removepkg and that you don't know who compiled it or if you can really trust them. Unless of course you mean a "real" Slackware package from the distro which has patches written specifically for Slackware? Most people who make a package and post it on a web site won't go to that trouble.

On a side note, Xfce leans toward the conservative side in favor of stability and security, whereas KDE leans toward the elaborate side in favor of as many diverse tools as possible. That is why Xfce has very few tools and options which work very well, but KDE has quite a few tools and options, many of which are unstable and can sometimes corrupt your system.
ta0kira

You do realize that when someone makes a Slackware package they are just going to do a "hodge-podge 'make install'" into a packaging tree, write an info block and maybe a short script, and you will be installing the result? . . . .

Yeah, sure, but my point was that I prefer the "controlled" approach of using packages rather than installing directly from source. Installing from a package provides a convenient way of tracking what is installed as well as a reasonably clean and controlled way of avoiding problems when removing packages. That was the only point I was making.

On a side note, Xfce leans toward the conservative side in favor of stability and security, whereas KDE leans toward the elaborate side in favor of as many diverse tools as possible. That is why Xfce has very few tools and options which work very well, but KDE has quite a few tools and options, many of which are unstable and can sometimes corrupt your system.

As I mentioned in my original post, comparing Xfce to KDE-Base would be appropriate. Comparing the entire KDE package kit to Xfce is not a straight-across comparison. With that said, KDE would not be very usable installing only the Base package anymore than Xfce. Which is my point about Xfce. Xfce is not a fully productive environment without additional packages. Most of those packages are not installed in a stock Slackware. I would like this thread to serve as a portal for helping people learn about packages to create a more productive Xfce environment, comparable to the full KDE installation.

Whether KDE is more unstable than Xfce is untested. I would have to add many GTK packages to Xfce --- the native environment of Xfce --- such that the installed number of packages and productivity potential becomes equivalent to a full KDE environment. I then would to have use that full featured Xfce/GTK environment in a productive way before passing judgment on stability. Whether Xfce/GTK is more stable remains to be seen, but I need to install the equivalent GTK apps to create a similar productive environment. But that is not possible with a stock Slackware. I started this thread because the stock Slackware does not provide most of those GTK packages. That is my goal with this thread --- to create a list of comparable GTK packages that will create a productive environment nominally equivalent to KDE or Windows. An end-user can add several GTK packages using linuxpackages.net and SlackBuild.org, but several key gaps remain, which I noted in my original post. My point of contention is not the way KDE or Xfce is designed or the project goals, but the noticeable gap of GTK apps not provided in a stock Slackware that would render Xfce more useful in an equivalent way to the entire KDE environment.