The Case Against Firefox

Originally Posted by ChuangTzu Interesting thread, we could easily have one "The case for Firefox". I would venture to put myself in that camp, been using it since Netscape days, also enjoy SeaMonkey (glad to see a recent update). I do play with Chromium from time to time to see what they are up to etc... But Firefox still remains my "more trusted" browser. The more Google proves they are evil or at least became so, the more "The case for Firefox" becomes relevant.

I've also used it since the "Netscape days", though Mozilla 1.x, the early Phoenix and Firebird releases of Firefox, through to the present day - and it's getting to the point where I've quite honestly had enough.

All browsers are bad, but the search for an alternative, which is not a privacy and security disaster, not bankrolled by google and not some snake oil product (usually a "fork") making dubious claims about what it can do, seems a futile one...

If I can't stomach any more idiocy from Mozilla, I will have to just use a chromium fork and like it.

Originally Posted by cwizardone KDE-5 is just plain a** unattractice. Yes, I know that is subjective, but after several attempts, I will NEVER use it

Actually KDE5 is quite brilliant and it looks quite nice, not perfect, but nice. But the practical aspects of it is fantastic, and it's more modular than KDE4. One can only hope they keep moving in this direction and make KDE6 completely modular so it can be scaled up from a minimal window manager to a full desktop while continuing to be fully constomizable and offering the best window/desktop management in the business.

Originally Posted by folkenfanel Wish that there was a QT port of Firefox - I personally spent lots of time just to make GTK+3 usable (readable), since the browsers I use are still GTK+3 dependent (Tor Browser and Waterfox). But paraphrasing an old song, I know that some day (sooner than later) all that work will go to the trash when the GTK+3 team decides to "upgrade" their CSS API, once again.

Sadly GTK looks really ugly side by side with QT and KDE, which makes Firefox look ugly in KDE. KDE have managed to override some GTK stuff though, so it's not as bad as it used to be.

Originally Posted by zeebra Actually KDE5 is quite brilliant and it looks quite nice, not perfect, but nice........

Brilliant? You must be British?
I wouldn't call it "brilliant," but I've been using AlienBob's most recent KDE-5 packages the last couple of days and I would say it has finally "matured" to the point I could use it as my daily desktop environment, IF there wasn't a viable alternative, such as Xfce.
Everything I've tried to do with it worked. Even Sweeper, which hasn't worked in the past.
I'm still not impressed with its intrusiveness, i.e., scattering dozens and dozens of configuration files all over the hard drive. Its settings still show up among Xfce's "Application Autostart" options, but it no longer overrides the Xfce themes.
However, this time it altered the Xfce sound settings. By that I mean while I had sound in Xfce, I could no longer control the volume and the Xfce PulseAudio plugin was dead in the water, i.e., inoperable.
Other than, as I've said before, it should replace KDE-4 in -current. Just my opinion, of course.

Originally Posted by zeebra I wonder why Mozilla jumped on this silly fashion trend. It puts questions marks around the whole browser if the Firefox team cannot hold their own ground and do their own thing and have their own integrity. Jumping on stupid fashion trends? Do they even have their own personality anymore or are they just tossed around with the wind? It certainly makes it clear that Mozilla is no fortress standing their own ground.

I think it is pretty obvious it was due to Chrome's versioning. Sometimes people just get caught up in version numbers. Even Slackware did that in its early days.

But I do agree that Mozilla has probably lost their personality. I think this is largely due to them sitting pretty at the top after climbing the very difficult mountain over IE. They did something few thought possible, overtaking IE. They opened up the gates for alternate browsers on Windows. They sat at the top only to be blindsided by Chrome taking their marketshare. I'm a recruiter for the Air Force and I had a supervisor that told me to never recruit desperate, because people can tell. I feel that Firefox was desperate to gain back marketshare and that's why they started mimicking so much of Chrome. Firefox is still much more configurable than Chrome and will likely always be that way (at least, I hope it does). I don't think it is as bad now, but it was a little painful to watch. There's still a lot of choices Firefox made

But I am glad that there's competition in the browser world. It's helped improve all browsers. I do still think it's funny that Firefox was spun out of Netscape, because Netscape was getting bloated, and now Seamonkey, the successor to Netscape, is considered the less bloated browser from Mozilla devs (and it still has a browser, email client, and HTML editor).

Originally Posted by cwizardone I'm still not impressed with its intrusiveness, i.e., scattering dozens and dozens of configuration files all over the hard drive. Its settings still show up among Xfce's "Application Autostart" options, but it no longer overrides the Xfce themes. However, this time it altered the Xfce sound settings. By that I mean while I had sound in Xfce, I could no longer control the volume and the Xfce PulseAudio plugin was dead in the water, i.e., inoperable.

Welcome to freedesktop.org. They know best and you're really just missing the point [plus it's your fault for not running systemd and probably Xfce's fault as well].

As soon as Quantum released, Firefox has been superior in every regard if you ask me.

Originally Posted by bassmadrigal I do still think it's funny that Firefox was spun out of Netscape, because Netscape was getting bloated, and now Seamonkey, the successor to Netscape,

In both cases the previous application should be Mozilla!;
that is: the Mozilla suite was the FOSS successor to Netscape (just as Netscape was derived from Mosaic, which was FOSS too) and later this suite was split into Firefox and Thunderbird, but some people didn't like that so they continued the full mozilla suite as seamonkey. Netscape survived for some time as a "business" version developed from mozilla sources, but as mozilla itself matured their market disappeared.

In case you're using a dark(er) desktop theme in your preferred DE and don't get along with the default Firefox UI (theme), then you could try this:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...ark-fox-18066/
I hate all modern UI designs, Win8/10, Android, KDE etc., I guess it's a conspiracy against the user, to provide the crappiest (minimalist, rudimentary) ever designed UI and confuse him - sections/boxes are not clearly defined, there are no graphical delimiters, icons& text look like they were the draft and not the final releases, etc. LibreOffice & Mozilla (Quantum) adopted it also recently.

Quoting you:

I hate all modern UI designs, Win8/10, Android, KDE etc., I guess it's a conspiracy against the user, to provide the crappiest (minimalist, rudimentary) ever designed UI and confuse him

It is indeed a "conspiracy" against the desktop user, favoring the mobile (phone and tablet) user.

Originally Posted by ehartman In both cases the previous application should be Mozilla!; that is: the Mozilla suite was the FOSS successor to Netscape (just as Netscape was derived from Mosaic, which was FOSS too) and later this suite was split into Firefox and Thunderbird, but some people didn't like that so they continued the full mozilla suite as seamonkey. Netscape survived for some time as a "business" version developed from mozilla sources, but as mozilla itself matured their market disappeared.

You're right. I didn't feel the need to go into all the details behind it, but the point still remains the same. Firefox was created because the full-blown suite was too bloated and a leaner, meaner standalone browser worked better. Now, people want to run Seamonkey, the successor to that suite, in place of Firefox because now Firefox has gotten too bloated and the full suite is leaner and meaner (with less features -- I can't stand using Seamonkey for any long period of time).

Originally Posted by bassmadrigal Now, people want to run Seamonkey, the successor to that suite, in place of Firefox because now Firefox has gotten too bloated and the full suite is leaner and meaner (with less features -- I can't stand using Seamonkey for any long period of time).

I feel the same way; I've tried to use Seamonkey and I found it to be lacking.

Yeah, if you want to be told how you have to use the internet, Chrome is great and Firefox is getting there.

If you want constant change Firefox is the winner. They are like crackerjack: a surprise in (almost) every package.

I just want to read stuff and take care of some business. Seamonkey is great for that. But, if you want to diddle around with browser settings or play whatever time waster acts as Farmville these days, it's not the right choice.

@HalseyTaylor
You forgot to cover one particular case
What if I know how to use the internet, I know how/where to find what I'm looking for, I want only the results I'm looking for, I need no distraction (derailing) in order to stay focus (efficient) and no "toxic" influence on my way to achieving my goal/developing the idea/finalizing the research, I need to preserve my privacy & anonymity ... and I happen to know what is needed and how to achieve it.
So far Firefox was the answer for me. It takes a little effort to tune and some helpers (addons), but it's achievable.