Moving to Linux - Considering Ubuntu Touch

I’m moving my systems off Apple to Linux. I’ve settled on a System76 laptop with Ubuntu but wondering about an Ubuntu Touch device for mobile. Anyone have thoughts on the Ubuntu Touch on “supported” devices (e.g., Volla)? Are there sync capabilities between desktop and mobile Ubuntu, like music files, contacts, calendar, etc.? Anything else I should be concerned about? Things to be concerned about? Thanks!

Originally Posted by MrBlueBudo I’m moving my systems off Apple to Linux. I’ve settled on a System76 laptop with Ubuntu but wondering about an Ubuntu Touch device for mobile. Anyone have thoughts on the Ubuntu Touch on “supported” devices (e.g., Volla)? Are there sync capabilities between desktop and mobile Ubuntu, like music files, contacts, calendar, etc.? Anything else I should be concerned about? Things to be concerned about? Thanks!

I think it's fine.
What sort of "mobile devices" are you talking about? You might want to consider SailfishOS - it's a very mature, true GNU/Linux (not completely free/open though) OS for phones. I have used it for ... checking ... 2 years now as my only smartphone device, and very happy with it! The range of supported devices is extremely narrow but most of them are widely available, cheaply.

Originally Posted by ondoho What sort of "mobile devices" are you talking about?

Thanks for the reply @ondoho! Initially I’m looking at phones but potentially a tablet down the road (though there’s not as big a need for a tablet since I’ll have a laptop).

And thanks for the the tip on Salifish. I’ll definitely have a look at that. One of my reasons for switching is getting away from big tech’s privacy failures. Apple’s been better than most over the years but they’ve become way too cozy with Google more recently. Any thoughts on Sailfish from a privacy perspective? You said it’s “not completely free/open” so I’m curious what impact that might have.

https://docs.sailfishos.org/Develop/Open_Source/
https://jolla.com/privacy-policy/
https://jolla.com/terms-of-service/
https://jolla.com/sailfish-eula/

Originally Posted by ondoho You might want to consider SailfishOS - it's a very mature, true GNU/Linux (not completely free/open though) OS for phones

Did some research and discovered this: “the Russian telco -- which is partially state-owned -- came to be the largest holder of Jolla shares. But it's an ownership structure that Jolla has now decided is no longer viable.” [ Tech Crunch ]

I’ll probably wait a bit until this Russian ownership issue shakes out before I consider Sailfish. Looks like a great OS though. Maybe by the time I’m ready to pull the mobile trigger it will be a viable option for me.

That is, of course, unfortunate.
I have really no concerns at all about this _ever_ having had an impact on the OS itself or its privacy policy.
And I'm confident that they will get over that - Russia has never been their only leg to stand on, neither has the Sailfish smartphone market, but even so, it is gaining popularity.
The cited article still seems to be the newest statement about the situation, but meanwhile they pushed another update to the OS, so it's not like they're struggling.

I was both critical of Russia's regime and aware of Jolla's business in Russia for a long time, but I have always seen the latter as something that speaks for SailfishOS, not against it: the Russians wanted something that is definitely Not Google, something that definitely will not phone home to the USA, and they found it.

Originally Posted by MrBlueBudo I’ll probably wait a bit until this Russian ownership issue shakes out before I consider Sailfish.

Their open source is not persuasive?

I have faith in open source software written by Russian developers who have now fled Russia so they can object to the war without involuntarily spending 15 years in Siberia!

I found this thread (also make sure to check out the Popular Links).
It's a long and complicated story that of course always attracts (possibly paid) trolls and conspiracy mystics.
There doesn't seem to have any palpable new information since March, but I'm sure they're working on it.
The ownership isn't crucial; 45%, and Russia does NOT have a say in any decisions, certainly not in software.
But still, Jolla want to get rid of it for good. They say business is good, and with the EU actively looking for OpenSource solutions I predict it will get better even.

There is no such thing as 100% security that has any usefulness if it connects to anything (not air-gapped). Also Security and Privacy, while having some overlap, are not the same things. On the subject of Privacy, I respectfully disagree with ondoho that de-googled phones are anywhere near as risky as a standard Android system. Some open source Android replacements offer greater functionality at the cost of some security and even privacy, but all of them are better than Googles' proprietary Android OS.

I chose CalyxOS to start off with as a well-rounded, well-balanced alternative. That system, just like Graphene and Lineage, as ZERO GAPPS. It also does not require a google account let alone a public login. It spoofs identity to never make a connection between you, your phone, and how you use it. This is variable since each app can be controlled as to what hardware resources are allowed or denied and even can be toggled. That's not quite as direct as hardware switches as on Pinephones but it does work and may be enough for most users. Some apps like Google Cloud, Google Maps, and direct GMail won't work as they require either a Google account or don't allow location to be disabled. There are workarounds. For example GMail can be accessed through K9 Mail with little fear of tracking that makes any sense to anyone, especially if you enable the included or get a 3rd Party VPN. It also has a dedicated and also open source firewall you can enable and configure.

It is important to recognize that a fuzzy but trackable confirmation of the degree of reduction of "phoning home" is that de-googled operating systems commonly DOUBLE battery life because of the vast reduction or elimination of tracking and notifications.

I may end up moving to Lineage or Graphene before I get a PinePhone but for now and a little while, I'm very happy with CalyxOS de-Googled Pixel 5A.

I respectfully disagree with ondoho that de-googled phones are anywhere near as risky as a standard Android system.

I never said that, and definitely nothing like it in this thread. I suspect you are misquoting me from another Android-related thread right now, but I never said it there either.

What you (still) don't seem to understand is the difference between AOSP and Android proper, or rather how they're tied together.
ALL "alternative" ROMs are based on AOSP - most of them 100%.
Show me some proof that CalyxOS has removed calls to Google servers from AOSP code, we'll talk.
So far I think only GrapheneOS are doing this.
But even so, I wouldn't consider even Graphene. Because de-Googling is not only about privacy, it's also about not buying into the Googleverse as such.

And anyhow, as long as you still have a Google account, you're not de-Googled now, are you?

I also have a vague suspicion that you are using the term "air-gapped" wrong; not sure, didn't quite catch your meaning.

I also never looked into MicroG, but I'm not sure that it completely separates you from the Googleverse, rather the opposite (as compared to not using it at all).

All that said, I agree with you fully that this privacy stuff is not an either-or thing - more privacy is better than less, and CalyxOS seems to offer more than stock Android - but that's a low bar.

Originally Posted by enorbet There is no such thing as 100% security that has any usefulness if it connects to anything (not air-gapped). Also Security and Privacy, while having some overlap, are not the same things. On the subject of Privacy, I respectfully disagree with ondoho that de-googled phones are anywhere near as risky as a standard Android system. Some open source Android replacements offer greater functionality at the cost of some security and even privacy, but all of them are better than Googles' proprietary Android OS. I chose CalyxOS to start off with as a well-rounded, well-balanced alternative. That system, just like Graphene and Lineage, as ZERO GAPPS. It also does not require a google account let alone a public login. It spoofs identity to never make a connection between you, your phone, and how you use it. This is variable since each app can be controlled as to what hardware resources are allowed or denied and even can be toggled. That's not quite as direct as hardware switches as on Pinephones but it does work and may be enough for most users. Some apps like Google Cloud, Google Maps, and direct GMail won't work as they require either a Google account or don't allow location to be disabled. There are workarounds. For example GMail can be accessed through K9 Mail with little fear of tracking that makes any sense to anyone, especially if you enable the included or get a 3rd Party VPN. It also has a dedicated and also open source firewall you can enable and configure. It is important to recognize that a fuzzy but trackable confirmation of the degree of reduction of "phoning home" is that de-googled operating systems commonly DOUBLE battery life because of the vast reduction or elimination of tracking and notifications. I may end up moving to Lineage or Graphene before I get a PinePhone but for now and a little while, I'm very happy with CalyxOS de-Googled Pixel 5A.

Yup, ondoho, you are correct in concluding it was likely I was in the wrong, if similar, thread. I was. Also, yes I have a google account since I signed up for gmail literally the month it became first available... BUT, afaik since on Calyx as well as Lineage and Graphene, no account login is required and identity is spoofed, "you" is anonymous when set up correctly and depending on how careful one wishes to be.

It seems likely that you are of the opinion that just because Google dropped "Don't Be Evil" that they turned 180 degrees and became actually evil. I am certainly wary about such changes and worry that their power and responsibility are no longer well-balanced, but I don't see their condition as binary... just typical capitalistic self-protection and a shift in that balance to more self-concern and less client concern.

There is an upside. That Google has become so common and wealthy creates a condition of requiring top notch hardware and, in software, resistance to hacks and bugs because they can afford it and cannot afford not to. I don't hate Google. I'm just wary. Whatever you motivations and security needs are, you are quite welcome to decide for yourself. So far, I'm reasonably comfortable with CalyxOS, especially for now when all my interaction is wifi only (no sim card). I'm trusting that firewall and packet sniffing will assist me in the future when I get a sim card or 3.

Originally Posted by enorbet BUT, afaik since on Calyx as well as Lineage and Graphene, no account login is required and identity is spoofed, "you" is anonymous when set up correctly and depending on how careful one wishes to be.

Yeah keep telling yourself that.
I can only repeat: show me that CalyxOS (or LineageOS) have removed calls to Google servers from AOSP code, we'll talk.

It seems likely that you are of the opinion that just because Google dropped "Don't Be Evil" that they turned 180 degrees and became actually evil.

Once again you are putting words into my mouth I never said. Shame on you.

I am certainly wary about such changes and worry that their power and responsibility are no longer well-balanced

That is putting it very, very mildly.

There is an upside. That Google has become so common and wealthy creates a condition of requiring top notch hardware and, in software, resistance to hacks and bugs because they can afford it and cannot afford not to.

It's these and other things people who somehow depend on Google (professionally or personally) tell themselves to make themselves feel better about it: "Yes, they raped Linux, but they're also doing lots of Good Things for the FOSS "community"...
Here's a downside: Google are so powerful - both financially and in terms of direct WWW influence - that they can steer opinion & discussion towards making people think that what they're doing is most important, even altruistic (with a capitalist caveat, if you will), and that they're BEST at it - conveniently leaving out the fact that you're basically giving away your online identity - but only to them! Never to the bad, bad, competition with their nefarious agendas!

Ondoho, I didn't say you stated Google is evil. I said it seems like it and now with your immediately preceding response it seems like it more than ever. FWIW I also think "raped Linux" is a poor choice of words depending on creating an emotional reaction. Rape is bad for people because it is violence that by it's nature voids the rights of others. That doesn't describe what Google has done with Linux (not to it) any more than Apple raped BSD.

As for AOSP I don't know very much about it yet but I do have confidence in the process assuming they walk the walk as well as they talk the talk. For example...

Originally Posted by [B A[/B]ndroid Open Source Project] AOSP license Apache License, Version 2.0 (Apache 2.0) is the preferred license for AOSP, and the majority of Android software is licensed with Apache 2.0. While the project strives to adhere to the preferred license, there are exceptions, which are handled on a case-by-case basis. For example, the Linux kernel patches are under the GPLv2 license with system exceptions, which can be found on kernel.org.

That doesn't seem horrible to me as a firm basis. I just dislike and guard against the spying and I don't seer how with firewall, VPN, and spoofed identity plus no google login, any data they do manage to gather has any meaning for them or any threat to me.

I'm curious... do you consider yourself a Socialist?

Yes, rape was a bad choice of words and I actually came here to change that, but since you already replied, let me rephrase it here:
"Yes, they are doing some bad things, but they're also doing lots of Good Things for the FOSS "community".

Originally Posted by enorbet As for AOSP I don't know very much about it yet but I do have confidence in the process assuming they walk the walk as well as they talk the talk.

That doesn't sound very convincing. Whatever exactlty that phrase means in this context, I think you are assuming too much.
Again: show me proof that CalyxOS (or any "alternative" ROM for that matter) have taken all calls to google servers out of AOSP or any part of their code base, we'll talk about "de-googled".
And what about the Google app store? You still using that?

I'm curious... do you consider yourself a Socialist?

I'm curious... why do you ask that? What does it have to do with the topic at hand?
And what's your definition of "socialist" and "socialism" anyhow?

Many countries (including the US of NA) are waking up to Google's shenanigans. And many are already fining them based on already existing and also new legislation, the same way they did that earlier with other companies that were simply getting too powerful.

PS: some reading for you: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018...ans-necessary/