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Old 04-21-2012, 08:37 AM   #1
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Talking acpi fan control

Maybe you don't know the Beatles song Help, but it is singing loud in my ears.
Help, i need somebody Help just anybody Heeelp....

To start with, i am not a sophisticated computer user. 2 years ago i decided to use Ubuntu as OS and was happy enough until last year autumn. This time several unpleasant effects started and most solved themselves after updates. The only persistent thing is the fan cooling. (I have a very long report on Launchpad). Since everything worked fine before there must be a change somewhere and to my little research all Ubuntu distributions are affected. Since i use a HP 625 Laptop without any Intel parts one driver might be the wrong one but finding it with little or no computer experience is another deal.
Heat management on my Laptop as far as i understand is done via acpi event. The controllers of the event are cpu heat values and fan trip points.
The lowest fan speed should be at 48C and emergency shut-down at 100C.
All basic values are correct but my fan cuts to lowest speed at 69C.
Here they are:

critical (S5): 108 C
passive: 100 C: tc1=1 tc2=2 tsp=100 devices=CPU0 CPU1 C002 C003
active[0]: 92 C: devices=FAN0
active[1]: 84 C: devices=FAN1
active[2]: 75 C: devices=FAN2
active[3]: 57 C: devices=FAN3
active[4]: 48 C: devices=FAN4

Actually the system uses the following temperatures and fan speeds
69C lowest fan speed
75C incresing speed
84C increasing speed
95C emergency shut-down

Whatever i do the cpu will never cool down to a suitable degree because the fan cuts out at 69C and I never see full speed at all.

Since obviously some routine is mixing hwmon and trip_point values to fan speeds i need to find and alter the routine.

the report from dmseg states

[ 17.935877] ACPI: resource piix4_smbus [io 0x0b00-0x0b07] conflicts with ACPI region SMBO [??? 0x00000b00-0x00000b06 flags 0x4f]
[ 17.935881] ACPI: If an ACPI driver is available for this device, you should use it instead of the native driver
[ 18.012944] Linux agpgart interface v0.103
[ 18.018528] lp: driver loaded but no devices found
[ 18.107460] [drm] Initialized drm 1.1.0 20060810
[ 18.158747] input: HP WMI hotkeys as /devices/virtual/input/input4
[ 18.164026] acpi device:01: registered as cooling_device7

Now my question would be
1. where would i find such a driver and how should i install it
2. cooling_device7 is the LCD monitor settings ??? cooling device ????
and the most pertinent question is where to find the routine that is mixing the fan trip_points and how to alter it before i clean the hard disk for another OS.

waiting hopefully for suggestions M.Peters
Old 04-21-2012, 09:04 AM   #2
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Run sensors-detect, and make sure the lm_sensors service is started. This goes systematically though every device and loads the appropriate modules.

I'm writing this on a hp laptop without one intel part and I had exactly the same issue with ubuntu. I ran it down to the kernel. What in the kernel I don't know. Fedora has the mix about right. Installing Fedora (in 2008) sorted it for me, but I graduated myself to slackware. I always build my own kernel now, and hate updating.
Old 04-23-2012, 02:32 AM   #3
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lm-sensors sensors-detect

Just to show you;

sudo sensors-detect

# sensors-detect revision 5818 (2010-01-18 17:22:07 +0100)
# System: Hewlett-Packard HP 625 (laptop)
# Board: Hewlett-Packard 1475

This program will help you determine which kernel modules you need
to load to use lm_sensors most effectively. It is generally safe
and recommended to accept the default answers to all questions,
unless you know what you're doing.

Some south bridges, CPUs or memory controllers contain embedded sensors.
Do you want to scan for them? This is totally safe. (YES/no): y

AMD Family 10h thermal sensors... Success!
(driver `k10temp')

Some Super I/O chips contain embedded sensors. We have to write to
standard I/O ports to probe them. This is usually safe.
Do you want to scan for Super I/O sensors? (YES/no): y

Trying family `SMSC'... Yes
Found `SMSC FDC37B72x Super IO'
(no hardware monitoring capabilities)

Some hardware monitoring chips are accessible through the ISA I/O ports.
We have to write to arbitrary I/O ports to probe them. This is usually
safe though. Yes, you do have ISA I/O ports even if you do not have any
ISA slots! Do you want to scan the ISA I/O ports? (YES/no): y
.............................................. No

Lastly, we can probe the I2C/SMBus adapters for connected hardware
monitoring devices. This is the most risky part, and while it works
reasonably well on most systems, it has been reported to cause trouble
on some systems.
Do you want to probe the I2C/SMBus adapters now? (YES/no): y
Using driver `i2c-piix4' for device 0000:00:14.0: ATI Technologies Inc SB600/SB700/SB800 SMBus
Module i2c-dev loaded successfully.

Next adapter: Radeon i2c bit bus VGA (i2c-0)
Do you want to scan it? (YES/no/selectively): y

Next adapter: Radeon i2c bit bus LVDS (i2c-1)
Do you want to scan it? (YES/no/selectively): y
Client found at address 0x50
Probing for `EDID EEPROM'... Yes
(confidence 8, not a hardware monitoring chip)

Next adapter: Radeon i2c bit bus HDMI (i2c-2)
Do you want to scan it? (YES/no/selectively): y

Now follows a summary of the probes I have just done.
Just press ENTER to continue:

Driver `k10temp' (autoloaded):
* Chip `AMD Family 10h thermal sensors' (confidence: 9)

No modules to load, skipping modules configuration.

Unloading i2c-dev... OK

The points is my laptop was working all fine and after the trouble started i installed sensors.
What i mentioned before is:
What has a graphic driver to do with my trip points and fan speed and why are they altered.

The moment i am switching maverick kernels and the best working so far is linux-headers-2.6.35-02063513. But all cut fan of at 70C and i like to find the routine and the one who made it. This might be a simple bug but since i have seen Unity i am not sure what it is and i like to find out. You should see what happens when i use a proprietor graphic driver. All readings get haywire and heat build up or cooling is in seconds. Trip points get altered and with changing kernel just the same. Trip points get altered.
What i have found so far is that i might install or remove all packages intended to read temperature and control fan without any effect (except i have no readout)

Though, to repeat it for everybody to understand me better:
  • I am too stubborn to switch my OS now.
  • It is not a Bios related issue
  • It is no sensors issue
  • fancontrol does not work on hp625 (/usr/sbin/pwmconfig: There are no pwm-capable sensor
  • modules installed)
  • Switching kernels alters trip points
  • Switching graphic driver alters trip points

Why has my lowest trip point changed from 48C to 70C
Why are hwmon values used as trip point (70C)
Since there should be a lower and a higher value for trip points, the routine i search for is probably mixing trip point values with hwmon values.
Why is it persistent:
Since i have changed kernels there should have been some change and was, but not with trip point for lowest fan speed.

I gave Lubuntu amd64 a try on a pen stick and had the same values.
If you dig around with google you find that all Ubuntu based distributions have similar problems with overheating (Mint,berstudent,Lu-Ku-Xu and Ubuntu).
If i would think this is only my laptop or computer i had another OS for a long time but as i see the thing there are many people affected and since this funny effect keeps Laptops silent the average User will not even notice.
To my opinion there is a routine introduced within Ubuntu kernels that keeps silence and renders my Laptop into a piece of chunk.

The greatest mistake i have done so far was to upgrade to 11.04. In order to downgrade i had to clean the harddrive and now the package history i would relish is missing. Accidental i have deleted my backup disk. (making another pen drive i chose the wrong drive to be deleted and 550MB are gone).

I have paid too much for my stupidity than to leave the thing at peace and use another OS.

Since grep '# include <linux/hwmon>' *.h
does not give any reply (probably a security feature) finding the routine is difficult.
Is there a chance to find a list of routines invoked at boot time???

with best regards your ultimate stubborn M.Peters
Old 04-23-2012, 02:00 PM   #4
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You've nailed it. Ubuntu is the problem. File a bug, or burn another install dvd from someone else. I had to leave ubuntu as well - I've a twin turion, and an 8088(the very first cpu in the ibm xt) would have been faster than my box!
Old 04-24-2012, 08:52 AM   #5
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Registered: Apr 2012
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Talking Guess you are right

Probably i will follow your suggestion very soon and have a try with something else. The bug report is filed long ago and not only for maverick but lubuntu amd64 too. Yesterday i have posted a mail to the creator of the thermal.h procedure and still hope to get a reply. I am well aware that programmers and therefore programs are never perfect.
To come to Ubuntu:
The bug report will grow again for a page today but i still cannot say if it is the silent treatment for Laptops (you might like if you love Unity) or if it is just a bug.
Since my Laptop crashed 2 minutes ago while i made my backup, it seems more than convenient to find another distribution. Yesterday i had a look at what's going on with thermal.h and you might take a look at this ( and compare it to /usr/src/kernelxxx/include/linux/thermal.h
The differences means just that Ubuntu kernel is hanging behind for 4 years.
Just good i never wrote the site to introduce ubuntu.

yep thats it, thanks and thanks for your advice
Old 04-24-2012, 12:04 PM   #6
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My experience was
Ubuntu - too slow, no video
puredyne, cae, others - kernel too old to support my devices
Fedora - Did the business. I then graduated myself to
Slamd64 -->Slackware64 & never looked back.
Old 04-27-2012, 02:31 AM   #7
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Talking cooling Linux Ubuntu Lubuntu Fedora

Now i have tried Ubuntu (maverick 32bit), Lubuntu amd64 and Fedora 16 xfce.
All have the same trouble with cooling. Non of them is able to use the correct values and all mix hwmon with trip point values.
This is a kernel problem.
The mail i wrote to the owner of thermal.h is still unanswered and i would guess it is from now on back to Win.
I hate Win????

But what is left???

Become a programmer and write my own stuff in order to get control over one thermal switch and one fan.

Yes, and guess what, i will need a working computer to achive this.

with best regards your former Linux user M.Peters


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