i took the plung into linux system got rid of windows and installed linuxmint 14 and fedora 17. After two weeks of trying to get the software manager and update manager to work. I managed to update everything.But still cant play dvds or get my usb flash drive to work.Skype took two weeks to install after using os many terminal commands, i still dont know how i managed to get it on. So i have to say linux stinks and wish i was back in windows, which is going to cost me.The skype i have is skype 2. beta.Which is a waste of time. The sound in linux is rubbish. Youtube was a nightmare trying to install flash player. SOmeonetell me . WHY WHY WHY. I'm sure there are many of us who are just from plug and play brigade.

Sorry to hear you are having a hard time, however I am surpriced to find out even LinuxMint is giving you a hard time. For what I understand LinuxMint is one of the most user friendly Linux distribution out there, with everything a person needs for everyday computing already included. Perhaps you downloaded the image without codecs?

However I cant say the same for fedora which for what I understand is not for new comers and you need some more advance experience to fully enjoy it.

I have been a Linux users since early 2008 and I run it in my desktop, my laptop and my wife laptop and if that wast enough I installed in Grandma's laptop as well. We are all doing fine.

So my advice is take a second look at Linux Mint, make sure you downloaded the version with the codecs include, stay away from fedora for now but highly encorage to try it once you gain some territory in Linux.

Save your hard earned money for now and revisit Mint.

Post more questions and comments along the way this forum is full of helpful people.
Good luck to you.

1 members found this post helpful.

Learning to walk wasn't easy either but the "biggest" like Ubuntu and Fedora work best (for me) at this point in infinity (although most work well on my hardware)...

Linux was never made to be easy. It is only partly that way due to a lot of hard work by folks that aren't paid.

I come from the very very very old computer school where nothing was easy. You have an advantage over some of us in that you can now buy stuff that is sort of plug and play. I feel your pain but linux for the most part is a free OS. It has been worked on by thousands and thousands of people. Many are not the best in the world but some are. It is not easy making an operating system.

I have no idea how the guys who made Sky and Menuetos did it with almost no help.

1 members found this post helpful.

Anatomy of a well-intentioned Linux Troll

Anatomy of a well-intentioned Linux Troll (or how I learned to stop worrying and love the penguin)

A troll will always be successful on a Linux forum, and I'm about to explain why. Despite numerous protests of "Don't feed the trolls" and "The best thing to do is ignore posts like these," people will continue to respond to trolls because trolls (like Linux distros) come in different flavors and varieties. One troll in particular seems particularly impassioned and genuine and so always gets responses:

The "If I can't use it, nobody can" troll

I actually believe this kind of troll is well-intentioned, and that's why people respond. This isn't someone who's trying to just stir up emotions or just laugh at how people respond negatively to her post. This person has genuine concerns, so people try to genuinely address those concerns.

Here's what happens:

Someone with a lot of Windows experience--an insane amount of Windows experience--who knows a lot about programming, web developing, administering servers, DOS commands, etc. hears about Linux from some friends at work. She figures, "Hey, I'll give this a shot. People keep talking about how great it is, and I think I even read an article in 2001 about how it's almost ready for the desktop market. Let's see if it is."

She takes what's touted as a "user-friendly" distro--say, Ubuntu. Ubuntu doesn't recognize her screen resolution. She's used to being able to download a driver to fix that. She can't find the driver. She wants to install some software. So, she does what she usually does in Windows--finds a program on the web, downloads it, and tries to install it. Instead of a wizard, she gets a README file that tells her to type ./configure, make, and make install. Just about everything she tries to do she can't do because she tries to do it the Windows way. She also notes a lack of GUI for several things she's used to having (but that most regular users never need--say, finding the IP address of the computer). After a while, she throws up her hands in frustration. "I'm a programmer, for God's sakes. If I can't figure out Linux, how's an ordinary user ["Joe Sixpack," Grandma, etc.] supposed to figure this out? I'd better tell all these Linux people to stop telling people it's ready for the desktop."

So she signs up for a forum and does just that, not realizing this has been done many, many times before. She's well-intentioned. She wants to help people. What happens? Instead of "Wow! You're the first person to tell us that. We couldn't imagine a long-time Windows user having difficulty with Linux. Well, surely we must go into hiding and develop some more before we can release any Linux distribution to the general public," Linux users rightly get upset. "You're doing it the Windows way." This troll doesn't understand what Linux users are talking about. "The Windows way? The Windows way is the easy way. After all, I haven't had any trouble with it." What she doesn't realize is how long it's taken her to learn the Windows way and that now, like a second language, Linux seems hard not because it is hard but because it's different.

Her assumptions are also flawed. Her logic runs like this

IF var=computing experience, THEN I > the masses
IF var=Linux, THEN I have trouble
THUS, IF var=Linux, the masses have even more trouble

Using a new operating system, however, is a lot like learning a new language--the syntax is different, the vocabulary is different, even the culture is different. But a linguistic expert in English may have more trouble learning Chinese than the expert's four-year-old daughter (who clearly knows less about language than her mother does). Just ask children of immigrants how often they have to translate for their parents. Likewise, someone who is so ingrained with the Windows ways of doing things will have trouble with Linux. Most regular users (not programmers) won't have to ./configure, make, make install and find dependencies. They'll click a few things in Synaptic Package Manager, and all their programs will download and install along with their dependencies. "Regular" users, who know very little about computers, have less to unlearn. They may be accustomed to certain Windows ways of doing things, but ultimately, they're used to just seeing an icon and clicking on it.

Well-intentioned trolls also operate under the assumption that Linux is supposed to work for everyone. It's not. Nor is Windows. Nor is OS X. Contrary to what some companies would have you believe, no OS is for everyone. Now, for some Linux purists, that means not for the weak-hearted. These are the Read the F'in Manual people. They've been with Linux a long time and don't believe that Linux should cater to new users. If new users like Linux, fine. If they don't, they should bugger off. Others, like me, believe that at least some distros should cater to new users (and many do, actually), but that doesn't mean Linux is for everyone. It's for those with an open mind and certain computing habits. For example, if you use Windows-only software, are a big fan of every commercial computer game that comes out, and have a winmodem, Linux isn't for you. If, however, like the majority of computer users, you do what I call the "basic six," you'll be happy with Linux:

1. Check email/instant message
2. Surf the internet
3. Organize pictures
4. Listen to music
5. Word process
6. Play silly games (Solitaire, Tetris)

The last bad assumption these trolls have is that Linux distros are Linux. They try one distro and assume that all distros must be like that. Then, they start making "suggestions" for how Linux "must" improve in order to woo Windows users, not knowing that many of those "problems" have already been fixed. I've seen these trolls complain that there are too many programs installed for any given task (solution: Ubuntu--one program for each task) or that the boot-up is verbose instead of silent (solution: Mepis, Mandriva, just about any user-friendly distro) or that themes are difficult to install (solution: Gnome) or that there needs to be a Windows clone distro (solution: Linspire). The amazing thing about Linux is how much variety there is. You can choose a lightweight distro or heavyweight one. You can choose a do-it-yourself or an automatic. You can choose KDE, Gnome, Fluxbox, IceWM, XFCE. You can't make judgments about "Linux needs to do this or Linux needs to do that" until you've tried several major distros. And by "try," I don't mean pop the CD in, tinker for a few minutes, and give up.

And we're tired of all the "it should be easy to install like Windows is" arguments. Windows isn't easy to install. And most users don't ever install Windows. Period. It doesn't matter how easy Linux gets to install and configure--people aren't going to adopt it en masse until companies start buying more Linux computers for their employees to use, schools start getting more Linux computers for their students, and companies like Dell start preloading computers with Linux.

Many regard Mac OS X as the most user-friendly operating system around. Well, for a long-time Windows user (me), it was quite difficult to use OS X at first. I had to get used to a whole new set of keyboard shortcuts (Cmd-tab instead of control-tab, Cmd-comma for preferences, etc.). I didn't know how to install software by dragging things from some white disk-looking thing to the Applications folder. I was used to wizards. I didn't know I needed third-party software to turn off the bootup noise. I didn't understand why clicking the + sign on a window didn't maximize it. I didn't understand why minimized Windows wouldn't maximize when I Cmd-tabbed to them. The list goes on and on. I was a frustrated user. I sucked it up, though, and now both my wife and I are proficient in daily Mac OS X tasks. Same for Linux. I sucked it up. Now, I've embraced Synaptic Package Manager, and I can't stand wizards any more. That's twenty years of Microsoft and four months of Linux talking.

By the way, I am not a programmer. I'm not a sys admin, a web admin. I'm not a graphic designer, a game designer, or any kind of engineer. I'm just an ex-English teacher who gave Linux an honest-to-goodness shot, and I'm a total convert now. I'm not anti-Microsoft. I'm not anti-Apple. I'm just pro-Linux and tired of hearing all the same "suggestions" over and over again.

The well-intentioned trolls should save themselves some typing. It's all been done before. And I hope the next time we get one of those trolls, that you just link them to this post. I know I will. I'm tired of typing these rebuttals over and over again.
If you really want to do some good, instead of whining on some Linux forums, do one of the following:

1. Put some of those programming skills to good use and help develop Linux
2. File a bug report at the appropriate distro/software website
3. Donate some money to help Linux developers

Other than that, no one's resting on her laurels. Linux distros are constantly being updated and improved, and new Linux users are popping up every day. Linux isn't for everybody's desktop, but it's ready for many people's desktops (read my sig for more info).

P.S. Here are some links, just to make this post as comprehensive as possible:

Linux equivalents for Windows Programs
The Linux Distribution Chooser
Linux is not Windows
The Ubuntu Guide

Have a good day, everyone!

Last edited by aysiu; December 1st, 2005 at 07:55 PM.

15 members found this post helpful.

little harsh (although the title) but yes,,, plus..∞.i thought of this too, maby just a good blog post to send at them

oops suppose to be an edit^ oh well

Don't know if its a troll. I almost made a post similar to this years ago but decided against it. However I have made plenty of whining posts before myself. Made quite a fool of myself on overclock.net long time ago regarding world of warcraft. It happens.

To OP. Assuming you are not a troll. Try debian 7 xfce live edition. It is how I really started with linux and I'm doing great with it. In the span of a week or 2 now I'm almost totally converted, havn't booted windows in 3-4 days now. Not much experience but it comes quickly. Don't have a reason to boot windows it seems.

It will not be like windows, it does take some reading and googling. Forums like this are good assuming you don't post like your first post above. If you do use debian google is your friend. As I have learned the repos are your best friend. The only things I have installed directly from websites is skype, chrome, and dropbox. Repos have had everything else so far.

I don't know how you managed to get skype 2.0 or whatever. Chrome directly from google is built with flashplayer installed so thats one less thing to worry about. It does work and beautifully, but if you are in a rush or on a deadline and trying to learn it you will get upset fast. Is a different way of thinking.

Wish you success.



I hope I didn't fall for troll.

There are a lot of people who come to Linux who fancy themselves as computer gurus because they have learned to build their own computers and install Windows OS and can tweak Windows to do what ever they want it to do. They then try to install and use Linux, and they are disheartened when they realize that all of the knowledge and experience they have built up over years of using Windows does not mean squat when they start to use Linux.

I know this because I was one of those people back in 2005. It probably took you a while to learn how to use Windows. It will likely take a while to learn how to use Linux also.

You are on the steep end of the learning curve, which is never fun.

You need to understand, as I did, that Linux is not Windows, just as Mac OS is not Windows.
Here is a great beginner site for getting started with Linux: http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/
And here is a great site on dual booting with Windows: http://members.iinet.net/~herman546/
I realize that those sites are focused on Ubuntu, but since Mint is based on Ubuntu the info should still be relevant.

To watch DVDs you may need to install libdvdcss. To do this you may need to enable some proprietary (i.e., intellectual property viciously guarded by flesh eating lawyers that humble Linux developers can not afford to do battle with) software repositories to get libdvdcss. Although I thought that Mint contained these proprietary codecs out of the box. You may need to consult the Mint documentation about this.

I have never had a problem getting any flash drive to load on Linux. What model flash drive are you using?

I don't use Skype, so I can not help with that.

Sound quality is subjective. I have always thought that sound quality on Linux was at least as good as on Windows. However, I have never used a high end sound card.
Are you using a discrete sound card? Or is the sound chip on your motherboard? If you post the output from the terminal of:This will tell us what sound card you are using. And the output of:
will show us what drivers are in use.

As for flash, again, I thought that Mint included flash out of the box. Does flash work from the Mint live CD? After you installed Mint, what did you do to try to enable
flash?

We need more info to properly assist you here.

And welcome to the LQ forums!

2 members found this post helpful.

"Why is linux a nighmare?"

It's only a nightmare for people used to Windows, who expect Linux to be just like Windows, and get disheartened when they find out it is not.

My 84 year old parents use Linux (Ubuntu) and have no problems with it. They came from Windows, but they were perpetual "Windows newbies" constantly in need of my support. So when they moved to Linux they didn't know how to expect it to be like Windows, because they didn't even know what to expect in Windows. They find Linux much easier than Windows and more stable.

So my take is that Linux is a breeze for advanced users, a breeze for beginning computer users, but maybe the people in between are having trouble because they can't make the leap and accept that Linux is not Windows. The middle people keep trying to pidgeon-hole Linux and say "Windows does it this way, so Linux should too". That's a guarranteed losing battle if you approach it like that.

2 members found this post helpful.

That is surely an oxymoron if ever there was one. As for someone who can't figure out the difference between free and non-free software (Skype being a notable example of the latter) removing the "oxy" leaves us with an accurate description.
jdk

1 members found this post helpful.

Nice point, put that in the blog. Plus, thanks to open source++ window$ inside of Linux is easy if ya have ta!

DVDs VLC!

Not going to comment on most, but if you aren't willing to put in the time and effort to learn linux, then go use Windows. Not going to bother most of us any. Not everyone likes the same things. Such as, I'm not willing to change my own oil in the car since I don't have access to a shop with a lift. So I pay someone to do it for me. You don't want to learn how to install/configure linux. No problem, go buy Winodows or buy a Mac and be happy.

3 members found this post helpful.

That was the wisdom of my children (talking about school and lessons): everything what they like and know is easy, everything what they hate and/or unknown is hard (and nightmare).

2 members found this post helpful.

The problem is, "Windows expert" does not equal "computer expert". Diehard Windows users may take that as an insult, but it is not intended as such. You can be a "Windows expert" and still be computer illiterate in the general sense.

The Windows user may say, Hey, I can buy a program to wipe my harddisk for only $40 and after I install it it only takes a few clicks of the mouse to use it. The Linux user may say, Hey, I can wipe my harddisk for free without having to install anything by typing "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=8192". Neither may ever comprehend why the other thinks their way is better. The Windows user will think the Linux way is obscure and not user fiendly. The Linux user will think the Windows way is a waste of money and unnecessary hand-holding and wasted GUI for such a simple one-line task.

1 members found this post helpful.