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69Rixter 05-06-2014 11:30 AM

Cascade9:

Good morning(at least it is here). You keep stating you've answered questions, but I just don't listen? I'm certainly disagree and have proof that YOU are the one NOT listening/helping. You entered this thread at post#30. Nowhere since have you answered any one of many questions I've asked. You have critisized me as well as others. Go back to any post on this thread and SHOW ME where you answered the question I asked involving a "command" I came across/listed. I posted a 'readout" that showed 'no ports open", NO comment from you. You've insisted there is no 1 easy way to port forward, then in a later post you say (post#57) "Personally, I find port fowarding rather simple and fast, for me its a lot easier than doing a manual install of software linux distros." Yet, again, SHOW ME where you posted that command/process??? This is what I've preached, and you've critisized...SIMPLE-SIMPLE-SIMPLE! Look, it's not a big deal to me if you reply. I only ask(of anyone) that you contribute useful, direct solutions/suggestions/information. Contradicting me and, often yourself, is useless! If you don't know, OK. No big deal. I asked in an earlier post that we don't allow this thread to deteriorate to a 'bitch-out". Yet, that's exactly where it's at. I'm no father ahead then when I first posted this thread some 60 posts ago. Tell you what...it seems my question(s) have become a source of aggrivation for you. Perhaps you should do yourself a favor and just move on.

Thank You:
RICK

To onebuck:

Again with the ettique lessons??? Is there some pertinent information/suggestions concerning 'port forwarding" you'd care to contribute? If not, please, move on. 60-some threads and no solulution ... or even suggestions to a possible solution. ENOUGH!!!! Do NOT reply (this is directed at everyone) unless you have legitimate, useful informatiion to pass along. THERE, onebuck, does that fall within your ettique parameters?

Good Day:
Rick

rtmistler 05-06-2014 01:06 PM

Sorry, did you not review this answer on a similar thread?

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...8/#post5160490

What would be helpful is if you posted specific torrent links which you are having problems with, or post your torrent application's log file as well as your system log file illustrating these port problems you state you're having. I'd also ask that you use the nmap command as offered in that other answer to ascertain whether or not torrent traffic is able to be used on each public wireless network you happen to be using.

You may disagree, but I'm pretty sure that the use of profanity in your posts will have a negative effect. See .LQ Rules

rtmistler 05-06-2014 01:09 PM

Note that the concept of port forwarding as a client on a public wireless network is irrelevant if the port traffic is not allowed to be passed by that wireless network. Again, use of the nmap(1) command will guide you there. There are examples of how to use it in that other thread.

69Rixter 05-06-2014 01:48 PM

to rtmistler/cascade9/JohnVV:

I apologize. I meant to include this 'site" with my latest post. This "site" has been very informative and, thus where I was getting info from: http://www.techsupportalert.com/cont...ient-speed.htm

//rttmistler:
Thank you for replying. As I use public Inet strictly, I'm aware of "blocking". However, I can download torrents from all but 1 of those public sites. Therefore (correct me if I'm wrong), it must be surmised my laptop does have certain ports open/available. At this stage in all these postings, and when referring to above website, I guess I should be asking this question.:: What ports should I consider to obtain maximum dl/ul. The website does indicate the need for port forwarding, but does not specifically reference which ports to implement. Now, as a follow up to this latest question:: Do I need to port forward...since I am "capturing" torrents. Confused yet? LOL LOL. I mean... since I already have "open ports", is there a need to 'port forward" other/different ports?. My "issue", now, is the slowness of the dl/ul rate. I realize I'm at the mercy of the 'public ISP" I'm using. Although, I wonder if I can do anything to improve the 'speed" on my end of the transmission? So here we go...(have I answered your question thoroughly?)
Everyone Have A Good Week; THANX:
Rick

rtmistler 05-06-2014 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69Rixter (Post 5165773)
to rtmistler/cascade9/JohnVV:

I apologize. I meant to include this 'site" with my latest post. This "site" has been very informative and, thus where I was getting info from: http://www.techsupportalert.com/cont...ient-speed.htm

//rttmistler:
Thank you for replying. As I use public Inet strictly, I'm aware of "blocking". However, I can download torrents from all but 1 of those public sites. Therefore (correct me if I'm wrong), it must be surmised my laptop does have certain ports open/available. At this stage in all these postings, and when referring to above website, I guess I should be asking this question.:: What ports should I consider to obtain maximum dl/ul. The website does indicate the need for port forwarding, but does not specifically reference which ports to implement. Now, as a follow up to this latest question:: Do I need to port forward...since I am "capturing" torrents. Confused yet? LOL LOL. I mean... since I already have "open ports", is there a need to 'port forward" other/different ports?. My "issue", now, is the slowness of the dl/ul rate. I realize I'm at the mercy of the 'public ISP" I'm using. Although, I wonder if I can do anything to improve the 'speed" on my end of the transmission? So here we go...(have I answered your question thoroughly?)
Everyone Have A Good Week; THANX:
Rick

Have you been testing the ports as they have recommended in that link to verify that the ports are available for passage through the network you are on at a given time?

To answer your questions:
  1. There are no specific ports which you should consider to obtain maximum download/upload speeds, this depends on the allowances of the wireless network; whether or not they throttle connections using something like QoS; and also depends on the upload limitations of any or all peers; which may choose to limit their upload speed. Further, there are no guarantees that all P2P ports are open for all wireless networks, hence the recommendation to use some command to determine these specific answers.
  2. There is no need to port forward and I submit that as a client participating in a network it is an irrelevant question because your station is not the router and the concept of port forwarding applies only to the router, not an end node.
  3. I believe that by not limiting your torrent application's settings and allowing it to operate without any speed limitations on the download/upload rates as well as ensure that you've done the best you can at ensuring that your client is not the slowest point in the network connection is the best which you can do. My statement about ensuring that your client is not the slowest point in the network connection merely means that you have as high of a speed wireless connection as possible to the network you've attached too.
This does not address my questions to you, which are intended to give you a directed way to obtain better guidance from members of the forum:
  1. You could query the administrators of these wireless networks and determine if they throttle traffic, per endpoint
  2. If you find a torrent which you feel should be downloading fast, but is not, then post that torrent's link in a reply and query as to whether or not others see this same behavior
  3. If you are seeing specific efforts (EDIT: I meant to write errors) posted on your screen, use print screen to generate an image and post that, edit the image file to hide stuff you don't wish to have shown, and also emphasize the error
  4. If you are seeing application logs or system logs indicating problems or giving you recommendations which you're unsure the meaning of them, then post copies (edited or not) of these files and cite the specific log entries which you have questions about.

69Rixter 05-06-2014 08:59 PM

Answer to question A: No. Have asked a couple of the places and they've not responded.
" " " B. Can do...but it's not just one specific torrent
" " " C. Do not recall seeing "any specific efforts" (?) posted on the screen.(?)
" " " D. Sorry..don't recall seeing any.

Just curious... if I were to have any of the last 2 symptoms (C. & D.) show up, what would that be indicating?
I think you'll understand when asking someone/anyone in a public sector, chances of meeting/getting in contact with the S.A. is next to impossible.
Uhm...did I test the ports cited in that link? No, not those specific ones...but I can, and I have tested different ports to see if they were open and that answer is "NO". I will post results of "test" soon.

Replies to your answers no#1. Understood reply until the last sentence.
no#2 Understood
no#3 Have not reset any configuration(s) (all are default...to my knowledge). This final statement in answer 3 "My statement about ensuring that your client is not the slowest point in the network connection merely means that you have as high of a speed wireless connection as possible to the network you've attached too."...would not/should not this hold true for any client?
So...now, off to do "some tests". If you notice that the sun starts rising in the west and/or the sky suddenly turns green, you'll know I'm at work "testing" my machine.
Thanx:
Rick

cascade9 05-07-2014 05:07 AM

I was wondering what the heck this was about, but it appears that 69Rixter has again made a 2nd thread on 1 subject....

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtmistler (Post 5165744)
Note that the concept of port forwarding as a client on a public wireless network is irrelevant if the port traffic is not allowed to be passed by that wireless network. Again, use of the nmap(1) command will guide you there. There are examples of how to use it in that other thread.

69Rixter is trying to use 'public'/free wifi? Anyone running wifi that is accesable to the public should be blocking torrents for legal reasons. At least in the west, in some countries as far as I know it doesnt matter.

Even if its not needed for legal reasons, blocking torrents still makes sense on public wifi. Torrents eat a lot of data, and can make browsing slow to impossible.

It is somewhat possible to get around those blocks, but posting advice that would be at IMO least questionable under LQ rules.

I wouldnt have even mentioned nmap myself........

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69Rixter (Post 5165773)
As I use public Inet strictly, I'm aware of "blocking". However, I can download torrents from all but 1 of those public sites. Therefore (correct me if I'm wrong), it must be surmised my laptop does have certain ports open/available.

Quote:

A large portion of the time, users complain that they are not getting great speeds with BitTorrent. While it's possible that there is no issue because of the very nature of BitTorrent, it is equally possible the user is not allowing incoming connections to reach his computer, and thus, is not making optimal use of BitTorrent's ability to connect to peers with that torrent. Being unable to accept incoming connections means your computer is in a firewalled state. In BitTorrent, if you are unable to get a green network status icon after a long period of transferring different torrents, it is an indication that you might be in a firewalled state.
Why Being Firewalled is Bad

Many firewalled users find themselves thinking "Hey, I'm firewalled, but I can still transfer the files, so it must mean I'm okay!" What they fail to realize is that being firewalled does not necessarily mean you cannot download at all, as firewalled users can still make outgoing connections, connecting to peers to transfer data in that way. While this is true, that's all you are limited to. That means that if someone else tries to initiate a connection with you, the attempt is blocked by your firewall.

You must then realize that you might not be the only firewalled user in the swarm. Since firewalled users can only make outgoing connections, and cannot accept incoming connections, it is natural that they (the firewalled users) cannot connect to each other. Being in a firewalled state not only cuts into the potential speed you could be attaining when not firewalled, but also means you are of very limited use to other peers in the swarm. Because there are less people available for firewalled users to connect to, they are open to less sources for data. Additionally, because they cannot accept incoming connections, other peers do not connect to them, so they lose even more attention. Essentially, peers who are not in a firewalled state have the potential to connect to many more sources of data.
http://www.bittorrent.com/help/manual/chapter0203

Quote:

Basic BitTorrent Sharing

The problem with most P2P networks is that many people just don't like to share. They open up their program, download their files, then close the program before they can help anyone else. It's called leeching. Behavioral judgements aside, if everyone did this then nothing would ever get shared! To combat this, BitTorrent has gone back to the way of sharing you were probably taught as a young child: trading. Instead of waiting for the complete file to download before it starts to share, BitTorrent downloads the file in small pieces and shares each piece as it finishes. This makes it easier to get the file from many different people at once, thereby increasing the probably that you'll get a good download speed. It also means that downloading a file is more reliable than in some other networks. If Charlie has half of a file and Bob has the other half, Alice can get each half and put them together to get the whole file. Spiff, eh?

But this piecewise downloading doesn't necessarily combat the leech problem. As a backup plan, BitTorrent built in the other half of trading you probably learned as a kid: tit-for-tat. That is, if you give me one piece, I'll give you one piece back. BitTorrent will give you a few pieces of the file for free to help you get started, but after that you need to start giving some pieces back if you want to keep downloading. If you don't share, eventually everyone else will stop talking to you. Just like when you were a kid with your toys on the playground. In fact, BitTorrent goes one step futher and actually starts to favor the people who share the most. This means that the more you upload, the faster you'll download.

For example, Alice gets a few pieces of a file from Bob for free. She can then give those pieces to Charlie, if he doesn't already have them, which will motivate Charlie to return the favor and give her a bunch of pieces that she doesn't have. She then goes back to Bob with those pieces, and the cycle continues and grows. Why don't Bob and Charlie talk directly? Maybe they do but they haven't gotten to those pieces yet. Or maybe their systems aren't configured right and they can't talk directly to each other.

How does all this start? With BitTorrent, it starts with a tracker. Like the name suggests, a tracker keeps track of people who are interested in torrents. When you download a .torrent file it contains a link to a tracker as well as an identifier (hash) which is unique to that specific torrent. Your BitTorrent client then connects to the tracker and asks for a list of all people interested in that torrent. At the same time, the tracker adds you to that list so that other people know that you are interested. Your BitTorrent client will also periodically asks the tracker for an updated list. That's all a tracker does: keep track of that list for each torrent, and give it out to people who are interested. The tracker does not know anything else about the torrent, nor does it send you the file. It just shows you where to go to get the file. (Like an Information Booth at a mall.)
Firewalls

This is where things get hairy. In all likelihood, you may be behind a firewall. Many people are. A firewall is like a personal bodyguard for the Internet. You talk to your firewall, and your firewall talks to the Internet for you. That way, you don't have to talk to the Internet directly, and any bad people on the Internet can't bug you. By their very nature, firewalls are paranoid and untrusting things. For the most part, a firewall won't let anyone talk to your computer unless you tell it to let them, and telling it to let them is tricky. Since most firewalls assume that if you talk to another computer then that computer is allowed to talk back to you, many P2P networks will try both methods.

Let's assume that both Bob and Charlie are behind firewalls, while Alice is not. Alice cannot start a private conversation with either of them, as she can't get past their firewalls. Both Charlie and Bob can easily start a conversation with Alice. However, Bob and Charlie can't talk to each other because they are both behind firewalls and neither can start the conversation. Like so:

NAT and Port Forwarding

But wait, it gets worse! In addition to being behind a firewall, your firewall probably performs something called Network Address Translation, or NAT for short. (Some geeks also call it masq, but the rest of the world calls it NAT.) Remember how having your IP address is the key to other computers talking to you? An extra layer of paranoia and security is to have your firewall give you a fake IP address so that even if they wanted to people couldn't talk directly to you. Like having a phone number that starts with 555-. You start a conversation with someone else, your firewall intercepts it and actually starts the conversation for you, and the computer on the other end talks with your firewall as if it were you. In fact, the computer probably can't tell the difference between you and your firewall. The problem is that your computer probably only knows about this fake IP address, so when it talks to the tracker and tells the tracker to add it to the list, it gives the tracker the wrong IP address. When the tracker gives out that fake IP address to someone else and they try to connect to you to give you some of the file you want, they can't find you because your IP address is bogus. So instead of giving out your fake IP address to the rest of the world, you need to give them an IP address that they can actually talk to: the IP address for your firewall.

One more hurdle to go. Remember how firewalls don't normally let other people start talking to you without you talking to them first? Even if you give out your firewall's IP address to everyone else, when they try to start a conversation with your firewall it will just ignore them, as it doesn't know what they want and it doesn't trust anyone. Logically then, you need to explain to your firewall that in some instances it is okay for people to start conversations with you. This is where those port numbers come back in. The port number that the other computers use to describe the conversation they are starting will let the firewall know what they are talking about. The firewall can then check and see if that port number matches something you want people to come directly to you for, and it will let them start talking to you. Since your firewall is forwarding on the conversation to you, this is called port forwarding.

Once you get the bogus IP address issue and the port forwarding straightened out, people will be able to talk to you. Let's say that Charlie, being such a hip and knowledgeable guy, has this all set up. Bob, on the other hand, hasn't figured it out yet and is still setup incorrectly. This means that now Alice and Bob can start talking directly to Charlie, but neither Alice nor Charlie can start conversations with Bob. Like so:

But what does it all mean?!?!?!?

Look at the diagram above. Remember how BitTorrent requires you to trade pieces in order to get good download speeds? If Alice and Charlie can't upload pieces to Bob, Bob will eventually start ignoring them. When that happens, Bob loses out because they'll start ignoring him back. Everybody loses. Since Alice and Charlie can converse freely, they are going to probably get good download rates from each other. In other words, the more people that can talk to you, the better your speeds are going to be. Configuring your firewall and BitTorrent client correctly is therefore essential for getting good download speeds!
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~hamilton/btclientconfig.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69Rixter (Post 5165699)
Cascade9:

Good morning(at least it is here). You keep stating you've answered questions, but I just don't listen? I'm certainly disagree and have proof that YOU are the one NOT listening/helping. You entered this thread at post#30. Nowhere since have you answered any one of many questions I've asked. You have critisized me as well as others. Go back to any post on this thread and SHOW ME where you answered the question I asked involving a "command" I came across/listed.

Proof? and I've answered many of your questions, its just not the answers you wanted.

Did you even read post #60?

I can see where someone might not get my 1st response to that iptables command-

Quote:

Originally Posted by cascade9 (Post 5155026)
.....the client is running, its connecting, just you have limited seeds/peers and probably awful speeds. Which is typical of 'firewalled' torrents.....while its possible your blocked by an OS firewall, I doubt it, if that was the case you shouldnt connect at all.

But post #60 should have cleared up any confusion. 'Should' being the operative word....

rtmistler 05-07-2014 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69Rixter (Post 5166024)
Just curious... if I were to have any of the last 2 symptoms (C. & D.) show up, what would that be indicating?

It would depend on the error. I've tried to download torrents which were generated using Asian character sets and also some file names were extremely lengthy, the torrent went very fast, but as soon as it encountered a certain directory of files, the directory name was a problem and it caused an error I don't fully recall the text of, but it was clear that "this file name is too long, or incorrigible, downloading halted!" Nothing I could do, I gave a brief try to say "don't download the following particular files" it still caused error and halted. Just saying that "if" you got a screen error or a log file entry indicating something weird that you should consider posting it for people's opinions. My points there are that you've complained about torrent performance but not offered any specific logs, screenshots, torrent links, or the results of testing ports. Seeing as you are getting torrents to work under certain circumstances then my conclusion is when you're on a network which allows torrent traffic to work, that's the best situation you can be in and you've done all you can; if a particular torrent doesn't download, it's not your fault and there's nothing further you can do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69Rixter (Post 5166024)
I think you'll understand when asking someone/anyone in a public sector, chances of meeting/getting in contact with the S.A. is next to impossible.
Uhm...did I test the ports cited in that link? No, not those specific ones...but I can, and I have tested different ports to see if they were open and that answer is "NO". I will post results of "test" soon.

Looking forward to seeing the results. I fully understand that being able to reach the administrator of a public network is difficult; just a suggestion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69Rixter (Post 5166024)
Replies to your answers no#1. Understood reply until the last sentence.

nmap(1) and I've cited this command several times. Visit that other thread you created on this subject and there are examples if that command in use, four of them.
Quote:

Originally Posted by 69Rixter (Post 5166024)
This final statement in answer 3 "My statement about ensuring that your client is not the slowest point in the network connection merely means that you have as high of a speed wireless connection as possible to the network you've attached too."...would not/should not this hold true for any client?

Read up on 802.11 technologies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11 and note the different modes and capabilities for connection rates, if you're attaching in legacy mode it could be as bad a 1 Mb/s and if you attach as 802.11n, it could be as good as 600 Mb/s, but likely somewhere between 802.11g rates and that maximum. Realize also that even if you have the most up to date 802.11 adapter, but the networks you're using supply only 802.11a or b speeds, then that's the maximum. Further, if you're using a very old computer with low RAM and CPU power, but works great with Linux, you still may run up against performance problems. Just saying there that you ought to look at the larger picture and determine if it's not always the torrent, but rather the network you're on, or that your system is not capable of performing any better sometimes. Use the ps(1) command to determine if 100% of your CPU is being used up or all your memory is being used up. Debug the problem further, tools have been suggested, that's all anyone can do.

onebuck 05-07-2014 09:27 AM

Moderator Response
 
Clearly there are issue with aiding the OP. Self moderating a thread is not some one should do. LQ Rules are for everyone, including OP;
Quote:

thread to deteriorate to a 'bitch-out"
Now that I know the OP is wanting to circumvent a public wireless access then I am closing this thread for this and other LQ Rules violations. ;
Quote:


Do not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

Do not post if you do not have anything constructive to say in the post.

When posting in an existing thread, ensure that what you're posting is on-topic and relevant to the thread. If the content of your post will interfere with the current discussion, you should start a new thread.

Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully ... without insult and personal attack. Differing opinions is one of the things that make this site great.

Posts containing information about cracking, piracy, warez, fraud or any topic that could be damaging to either LinuxQuestions.org or any third party will be immediately removed.
To OP(69Rixter) Please re-read post#59 and in post #61 you responded to me with;
Quote:

To onebuck:

Again with the ettique lessons??? Is there some pertinent information/suggestions concerning 'port forwarding" you'd care to contribute? If not, please, move on. 60-some threads and no solulution ... or even suggestions to a possible solution. ENOUGH!!!! Do NOT reply (this is directed at everyone) unless you have legitimate, useful informatiion to pass along. THERE, onebuck, does that fall within your ettique parameters?
This thread is closed!


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