Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond
 

Well, I attempted to post this to Linux News the other day and either it has not been reviewed or was not found to be news worthy, so here goes:

Ref: includes an interview with ESR
https://lunduke.com/posts/2020-03-9-b/

Open Source Initiative bans co-founder, Eric S Raymond
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq7m2oQdJEA

The right to be rude
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8609

From the ibiblio link, ESR's comments:

Free software as a guiding principle has been effectively killed and its founder silenced ... don't kid yourself, it is over.

Now its lesser offspring, Open Source, is being strangled as well.

Truth will assert itself in the end, but usually with accumulated explosive pressure.

Honestly, I think it's both unnecessary and perhaps even dangerous to speculate about this prior to even knowing exactly what's happening behind the scenes. There are a ton of possible motivations, and don't forget that ESR has been, quite frankly, an abrasive blowhard for years now. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he just finally crossed the line.

Well ESR said this:
I'd submit that such a distribution list is for discussing, criticising, attacking ideas and concepts, even with ESR's colourful language, but not for personal attacks like toxic loonytoon. My guess is that this and perhaps a history of earlier personal attacks led to the ban.

The secret tribunal that came to this decision seems to be counter to the idea of "open", though. But perhaps "open" is strictly limited to "source", not to decision-making.

I do not have an opinion about this case, and maybe it's my conservative upbringing (in terms of etiquette and politeness, that is), but I find some the high value that some persons place on having a right to be rude somewhat puzzling.

Just a stray thought.

Sounds like more SJW madness and political correctness run amok. Happened at FreeBSD, too.

Is expecting people to have an ounce of decorum what's considered SJW madness nowadays?

No, but I'm pretty sure those folks at OSI have a pretty good idea of ESR's character, so it shouldn't come as any surprise as to his reaction to thin-skinned crybabies.

Let's face it, many talented people are sometimes abrasive and rude; Linus dealt with the same thing recently. People need to quit their damn whining and stop crying to mama every time somebody says something mean to them and hurts their precious little snowflake feelings.

I hear millennials whimpering about this stuff a lot lately, so sorry if this seems abrasive and rude, haha. It just makes me want to bellow "STFU and GTFO!"

Looks like ESR didn't deal with it.
There are different opinions about this. Some people reserve the right to be rude. Others reserve the right to impose civility.

I'd like to point out that Linuxquestions seems to be in the latter camp.

Now, whether ESR's ban is justified, and how it was carried out, are topics that can be discussed. I don't think the OSI handled this well, but I don't know the history, so I should be silent.

EDIT: This is how Bruce Perens deals with the license that triggers ESR: https://perens.com/2019/09/23/sorry-...nse-cant-work/. No need for rudeness.

Lunduke makes an interesting point about the apparent lack of a smoking gun in the mailing list's archives, and OSI's reluctance to specify the "offensive emails" they referred to. If it was the "toxic loonytoon" comment then I'm surprised they chose to ban rather than warn - but I don't follow the list in question.

Ironically, ESR's famously abrasive manner makes him an easy target here, so I think it's worth asking questions even if we can't know the whole story. On the other hand he only just joined the list, so this might be a storm in a teacup rather than a sign of advanced rot.

FWIW I don't think ESR's tendency to shoot his mouth off is a reason to get rid of him altogether. I've worked with people who had worse traits and they still got their jobs done.

Most of humanity's greatest achievements came from people who were often not politically correct nor mild mannered, one could argue that having the courage to speak out and go against the tide/current are prerequisites for great achievement.

I leave this for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbZhpf3sQxQ

People need to get over themselves, there is nothing wrong with telling someone they F*cked up and should know better. We need to encourage/demand the highest levels of achievement and deter mediocre results. Ever wonder why we no longer produce Michelangelo's, Lao Tzu's, Zhang Heng, Moses etc...

In general, I agree. I LIKE when people are willing to not be all PC about everything, it makes things INTERESTING!!! But for the most part, ESR probably did take it a bit far quite often. But given how long he had done so, does it really make sense for them to suddenly start caring? Not like he was any worse than usual, IMO.

What a terrible argument. We certainly still produce people who do great things, likely at higher rates than before because people are less likely to die of an incurable disease at 40. Furthermore, the people you cited stand out significantly - the reason it feels like their periods were better is because the loads of garbage that were certainly produced were too terrible to survive the torrent of time; in 4020, the sentient beings inhabiting the earth will think the 2020s were an amazing period for art, philosophy, and science because the hordes of DeviantArt Sonic OCs, gazillions of fallaciously nostalgic web forum posts like this one, and Flat Earth Society meeting transcripts will have been lost.

I'm tired of fake intellectuals bemoaning the woes of modern society when they are the real problem. The countless blog posts about how all modern art is just shapes and millenials are too sensitive are far more intellectually barren and oversensitive than modern art and "social justice warriors."

Regarding the lifespan argument that is relative to the culture and society you are referencing, not all are as short lived as the west was.

I agree there is a tendency wax nostalgic for the past, however, that is not always the correct assessment. There is clearly a downward slide in society in general, and specifically this is noted in different time periods in the past/present when tyranny is planting its seeds. One must always guard against two virulent tyrants: censorship/restriction/legislation of speech which leads to the censorship/restriction and legislation of thought. This is apparent with incidents similar to ESR, RMS, Torvalds and (OT) but also the removal and destruction of historical statues just because the memory may offend someone. If we attempt to cleanse the past and remove our mistakes from history then we surely will repeat them. History is to be learned from not forgotten. History is more often then not cyclical rather then linear, the circle is far more powerful then the square or line.