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Oceans Are Warming Faster Than Predicted
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That's especially bad news for coral reefs. Hot water kills them.
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Earth's oceans make up the majority of what constitutes heat sink mass and surface area in the Terran ecosystem. This is one of the reasons it is "the miner's caged canary" in climate study of any kind. An additional concern is that water flows quickly compared to solid materials and the flow patterns are altered by differences in temperature which creates a vast set of unknown variables somewhat analogous to (and incidentally interactive with!) atmospheric weather, notoriously difficult to predict very far into the future. Yes, this is bad news and aside from the poll in this thread, which is a bit weighted toward those confident the threat is real compared to the global population, it seems it will have to get considerably worse before certain people in power even recognize the flames are already effectively "ass high" due to the exceedingly slow effect of any counter measures. It took centuries to develop to this point and it won't be fixed in just a decade or three.
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ChuangTzu, given your position as revealed here so far, I hope you have considered that given that surface temperatures of the ocean are demonstrably increasing despite deep ocean cooling that could be a very real indicator of just how much the influence of humans on increasing global temperature averages is.
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enorbet, now we are getting into an area (of interest) that I have over 30 years experience with: Marine Biology/Oceanography. Deep water temperatures have a far greater influence on weather patterns and health of the ocean in general then surface temperatures. The nature of the ocean is for temperature to rise from the floor to the surface, in other words if the deep ocean is cooling it will eventually cause the surface temps to cool as well. The noted rising of sea surface temps is temporary, if you examine the info. it actually points towards a major global cooling similar to the last little ice age perhaps worse. Its also interesting to note that Magnetic North is moving rapidly from Canada towards Siberia causing a re-calibration of all global tracking systems, and could be on its way to flipping (south becomes north). Both of these are natural phenomenon, and wonderfully important to observe. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...50km-year.html
Now, if the evidence suggested that deep water temps are rising then the inverse would occur, it would combine with rising sea surface temps and water could literally boil, has happened in the past a few times. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ear-180955332/ |
Well now this interesting:
"Welcome to the main repository for Transatomic's public domain reactor design documents. We're very glad to be working with the Department of Energy's Gateway for Accelerated Innovation in Nuclear to share our design with the public, and we hope that this work will support a wide range of molten salt reactor research and development efforts." https://github.com/transatomic/reactor/ |
@ChuangTzu - Well that's good since that should mean you recognize that our oceans are isolated systems much like our homes are - systems within systems with a degree of interface... the flow is in a circuit. Just as in our homes where it is possible to have a condition given sufficient infiltration and Delta T there is a tipping point where a common fireplace will not produce more heat than the cold brought in as the chimney draft sucks in cold air from the outside, given a situation where the surface is sufficiently warmed a tipping point can be reached where the cooling from old, deep water is less than the heating that comes from above as it becomes part of the system circuit.
One of the videos I linked several posts ago referring to rate specifically speaks to that subject of rate and tipping point where the system becomes saturated and can no longer absorb the increase. This is what climatologists are seeing and rightfully worried about. It is how a small change can have a larger amplifier effect when such tipping points due to rate of change occur. Equilibrium is upset and must reset at a new substantially altered center. Nuclear Winter is an example of a tipping point gone wild in the opposite direction. Either would be disastrous. |
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Meanwhile, activist saboteurs are fighting tooth and nail against the one thing that might possibly make a teeny tiny bit of difference--greenhouse gasses. We should all write Congress and implore them to outlaw solar panels, windmills and especially nuclear plants so we can maximize the burning of coal to save us from the pending frozen hell. |
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Well historically, life---especially humans, is more adaptable to warm/hot climates then we are cold climates. This is one reason most people live on or near (within a few degrees) of the equator, with fewer and fewer people the further you move out from the "Center", with very few at the extreme ends. A hot climate, life will adjust and find a way, grow oranges in Alaska if need be, but a cold icy planet is deadly and would surely eliminate most life human and otherwise, with just a few scraping by as the sabertooth tiger equivalent evolves to return. Pray for a warm wet planet, not a cold icy one.... |
Geez guys...seriously? Do you not understand what "EcoSystem" means or that Earth is primarily a Closed System? The greatest outside factor affecting temperatures is our Sun which is not a refrigerator and whose longest scale changes involve making Earth hotter not cooler. What determines shorter term changes is right here in this closed system of how solar radiation is absorbed or reflected.
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On some ultimate scale the temperature of ancient deep ocean water has been a factor in the average for more thousands of years just as Earth's molten iron core plays a part but it is just as ridiculous to assume cold, deep water will rapidly alter the surface temperature of Earth as it is to assume the molten core will act similarly but in the hotter direction. As for "growing oranges in Alaska" if you divorce that condition from what global conditions might make that possible is the only way such an overly simplistic and isolated view could actually be livable for humans. It's patently absurd or T-Rex or Dragon Flies with six foot wingspan might still roam the Earth. For Alaska to "become Florida" implies either a massive (unlivable) increase in the temperature Florida and about 70% of the rest of Earth or that somehow the Earth rotates out of it's current polar orientation, either of which would involve mass extinction with profound effects on anything that could survive, if anything could and would. There are local effects that create small rise and fall in temperatures but the global average is rising and faster than it ever has before and we even understand why humans are a key part of that rate change, being on an important tipping point. |
SOURCES AND SINKS - A Balance sheet
For the nature of closed, interactive systems, which means both interactive components within one system and interaction between multiple systems.... ---- OR, more simply put, a concise and simple graphic understanding of WHY human's Minor contribution to atmospheric Carbon has a Major effect on The Rate of Change as noted above Please see this video even if all you do is fast forward and stop dead at the 2.00 - 2.10 mark to view the graphs of actual measurements... real data, collected by every single source without exception that has collected such data measuring the change in atmospheric Carbon in relation to Time. Watch more to get the explanation of how and why this occurs as it has. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ9h...ature=youtu.be |
enorbet you might find this interesting:
https://www.noaa.gov/resource-collec...ocean-currents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upwelling |
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I am quite familiar with the so-called Conveyor Belt and the other types of currents that exist in the ocean. Most of the currents that interact with and have any affect on atmospheric temperatures (and by extension land surface temps) exist in a "band" that extends down to roughly 1000 feet, slightly deeper than three football fields are long. Below is the Thermocline which stays fairly stable having only some little interaction with the 1000 foot layer above. Below that is a layer that has almost zero interaction with surface water. This is why, for example, for millions of years the temperature of the vast proportion of ocean water mass (miles deep) is roughly 34-44 degrees Fahrenheit, depending mostly on depth. It does have an impact on Earth's average temperature but it is minimal despite its awesome mass and is also exceedingly slow to change in comparison to the top 1000 foot layer. It is likely that even if we hit a 6 degree Fahrenheit increase in the average of surface temperature that lasts 1000 years the ocean floor will still be at 34-44 degrees Fahrenheit but the world above will be a very different place.
Below is a simple graphic of such layering that even exists in larger lakes as well in oceans. |
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