Because Shiny Things Are Fun - The New New Windows v Linux Thread

Originally Posted by dalek It seems to me that you are saying that a person that is not a programmer shouldn't use Linux.

This is not what I meant to say.
Instead of promoting just one OS it would be better to give info about strengths/weakness of the platform, so the user can make decision. One-sided arguments either look stupid, or smell like fanatism. And to get info about strengths/weakness you need to get better understanding of the target platform. And for that you need development experience.

Originally Posted by dalek You don't have to have training or some Government approval to use one.

Which is bad, IMO.

Originally Posted by dalek If it was illegal to spread viruses, a lot of windows users would be in jail.

It is still illegal to make viruses or hack machines remotely.

Originally Posted by dalek I think some people should be forced to install their own OS and build their own puter if for no other reason than to help them understand what they are using.

I don't think so. Everybody has different needs, and not everybody is meant to be comfortable with using a computer.
Forcing to install operating system will be just a waste of their time - they will learn nothing, they will hate the experience, and they may not need that knowledge later.

Originally Posted by dalek Yea, I'm one of those that think a woman should be able to raise the hood and change their own oil too.

Again, I don't think so - she should pay a mechanic instead. There are skills that are important for you, and there are those that are not. The exact set of skills differs for every person. It is impossible to know everything, and you can't get even a basic knowledge in every field if knowledge you contact every day in modern life, so when you need specialized skills, it'll be wiser to pay other people who specialize in that area. AFAIK, that's the whole point of modern society - when you don't know how to do something, you hire or ask for help somebody else. To learn something, a people must be actively looking for knowledge themselves. If you force knowledge (they don't want) upon them, they'll forget most of it.

Besides, computers are not cars. Failure of the running car might mean death to driver and couple of other people. Failure of a home computer normally isn't that fatal.

Originally Posted by SigTerm This is not what I meant to say. Instead of promoting just one OS it would be better to give info about strengths/weakness of the platform, so the user can make decision. One-sided arguments either look stupid, or smell like fanatism. And to get info about strengths/weakness you need to get better understanding of the target platform. And for that you need development experience. Which is bad, IMO. It is still illegal to make viruses or hack machines remotely. I don't think so. Everybody has different needs, and not everybody is meant to be comfortable with using a computer. Forcing to install operating system will be just a waste of their time - they will learn nothing, they will hate the experience, and they may not need that knowledge later. Again, I don't think so - she should pay a mechanic instead. There are skills that are important for you, and there are those that are not. The exact set of skills differs for every person. It is impossible to know everything, and you can't get even a basic knowledge in every field if knowledge you contact every day in modern life, so when you need specialized skills, it'll be wiser to pay other people who specialize in that area. AFAIK, that's the whole point of modern society - when you don't know how to do something, you hire or ask for help somebody else. To learn something, a people must be actively looking for knowledge themselves. If you force knowledge (they don't want) upon them, they'll forget most of it. Besides, computers are not cars. Failure of the running car might mean death to driver and couple of other people. Failure of a home computer normally isn't that fatal.

I promote Linux because I believe it to be a far superior OS. I don't think people can say the same about windows. For me, that is not a opinion, that is a fact.

Originally Posted by SigTerm Which is bad, IMO.

You think that people should by approved by the government to use a computer?!?

Originally Posted by dalek I promote Linux because I believe it to be a far superior OS. ... For me, that is not a opinion, that is a fact.

No problem with that.

Originally Posted by dalek I don't think people can say the same about windows.

Strengths of windows platform were listed here.

Originally Posted by MTK358 You think that people should by approved by the government to use a computer?!?

Ideally, if buying a PC required a license with exam, there probably would be less clueless users. In reality, if you take Murphy's law into account, government would probably screw up the exam system, such exam would probably increase number of clueless people, which would make things worse. So this idea will never come true, and you have nothing to worry about.

Originally Posted by SigTerm Which is bad, IMO.

LOL! Government approval to use a computer? Wow…

Originally Posted by Kenny_Strawn LOL! Government approval to use a computer? Wow…

Why not?! =oD We do have drivers licenses ;D

Originally Posted by SigTerm Strengths of windows platform were listed here.

That's all the strengths it has? No wonder it sucks.

Originally Posted by dalek That's all the strengths it has? No wonder it sucks.

Being a profitable widely accepted platform with a stable API is actually a very big deal, and the main reason why the windows is used more frequently. If you don't understand that, it is not my problem. As for "all strengths"... doing thorough analysis would take a lot of time. There is no possibility of an interesting discussions (so far all decent arguments were ignored and there were no really challenging counterarguments) or a monetary reward as a result, and changing opinion of an anonymous stranger just for the heck of it is not worth the effort.

This was a waste of time, so I quit. Have fun thinking whatever you want.

Originally Posted by SigTerm It is your machine, your property, so you use whatever you want on it and get consequences of your decision. [...]I don't see a reason for a non-developer to use linux. Still, it is your time, your life, and your decisions, so you can do whatever you want (and get consequences later).

Consequences? Care to expand on that?

This was a waste of time, so I quit. Have fun thinking whatever you want.

Or not.

Originally Posted by SigTerm Ideally, if buying a PC required a license with exam, there probably would be less clueless users. In reality, if you take Murphy's law into account, government would probably screw up the exam system, such exam would probably increase number of clueless people, which would make things worse. So this idea will never come true, and you have nothing to worry about.

That's just insulting.

If I would say what I think of that idea I would probably be banned from here temporarily, so I'm not going to forget about it.

Originally Posted by SigTerm Being a profitable widely accepted platform with a stable API is actually a very big deal, and the main reason why the windows is used more frequently.

Heh. Always w/ the funny guy. =D MS has tremendous change rates
in their APIs as well as in their document formats; that's the reason
all new versions sell. If one big customer updates, and shares
information w/ other organisations those pretty much have to follow
because people won't re-train to "Save as" for previous versions.



Cheers,
Tink

Originally Posted by mudangel Consequences? Care to expand on that?Or not.

consequences are neither good or bad. i dont think he meant any insult to anybody.

this is a dumb thread to have anyway. how are you going to have a fair windows v linux thread on the LINUXquestions website? this is a website filled with linux users who understand how to use it and have dedicated the time necessary to use linux to its full potential. of course they are going to angrily support their love for the system to the death. its the same if you posted a "linux v windows" thread on a windows-loving forum. they would have nothing bad to say about windows, as they are in love with their system.

personally, i prefer linux, but i realize that windows also has its time and place, as well as its own unique benefits.

being a fanboy is difficult when you look from the side of a developer: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/487814

most of what is said about the issues with linux apply to a lot of things, its part of what makes linux great, but also part of what is keeping it down.

unfortunately, linux is not perfect, and neither is windows, or OSX.

in the end, its a choice between different problems. which problems can you deal with, and which ones can you not?

Originally Posted by SigTerm Being a profitable widely accepted platform with a stable API is actually a very big deal, and the main reason why the windows is used more frequently. If you don't understand that, it is not my problem. As for "all strengths"... doing thorough analysis would take a lot of time. There is no possibility of an interesting discussions (so far all decent arguments were ignored and there were no really challenging counterarguments) or a monetary reward as a result, and changing opinion of an anonymous stranger just for the heck of it is not worth the effort. This was a waste of time, so I quit. Have fun thinking whatever you want.

If people followed suggestions like yours we would still be eating raw meat, living in caves, and afraid of fire! I may not be computer savvy as some but I believe highly in learning about my surroundings INCLUDING OSs other than M$ (which in my opinion SUCKS. I am a retired mechanic by trade and as I've pointed out in the past a newbie to not only Linux but to computers in general. My wife used these boxes far more than I ever did and is very happy that I converted ALL of the computers in our home to Mint. We seem to be able to get a lot more done now that there is no defragging, AV scanning along with countless other things associated with windoze. I find I am actually able to do things with Linux and FOSS that would have cost me a fortune with M$ and proprietary software. So if I come off at times being one-sided toward Linux live with it or ignore me because quite frankly I don't give a damn!BTW that point about "licensing" makes about as much sense as giving speeding tickets out at the Indy 500!

Originally Posted by tiredofbilkyyaforallican now that there is no defragging, AV scanning along with countless other things associated with windoze.

I can't hear it anymore! Did you really spend the whole day with defragging, AV scanning and countless other things associated with Windows? Than you were doing something very, very wrong.
Defragging: Use NTFS, a separate data-partition and don't install/deinstall software non-stop, and it would be sufficient to do that once a month. By the way, you can do that in the background.
AV-scanning: Use a background scanner, not only a on-demand scanner, and it should be sufficient to do a full scan once a week. Can also run in the background.
Countless other things associated with Windows: I wonder what that should be? Regular updates? I do them on Linux also. You have to reboot after them? As long as you don't run a server on which downtime costs money, I think it shouldn't matter if you spend two minutes after an update with rebooting. It is not so that you update every 15 Minutes, and if you really have to do important work fast and have no time to reboot, then at least on Vista/7 you can set the timer for reboot to 4 hours, and that more than once. Rebooting after installing software? How often do you do install new software?

I think that some Linux users (especially new ones) rant exaggeratedly about Windows, just to show "Now I am a Linux boy, no longer a Microsoft sheep!", but I don't think that most of them really mean it. It is just a show.

Been reading programmer this and programmer that. Been reading how great Windows is on New Hardware for the upper class users of computers.

I am not rich. Nor a Programmer. Vista, Windows 7 won't run on my Panasonic Cf-48 or Ibm a22m so what is a tattooed Linux using Biker to do.

Use the Linux/Gnu choices available to him to run a modern browser, no fear of becoming a Windows Bot on the net, Run his gear relatively quick and snappy. What a narrowed way of thinking that Windows is affordable to run in this day and age. W