Are you for or against systemd?

jsbjsb001 · 04-17-2017, 02:30 AM

VERY interesting! Now, let's expand the discussion, if you don't care much for systemd (and/or voted "HATE IT!" or "Don't like it, prefer a different one!"), which one would you prefer?? (if any at all) runit, upstart, or something else?? And maybe why??

PS. I'm glad I'm not systemd's developers, as no one at this point seems to have a strong opinion in favor of it!

fido_dogstoyevsky · 04-17-2017, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001

...if you don't care much for systemd... which one would you prefer?

Anything that can be EASILY replaced by a competing project if I don't like it.

Xeratul · 04-17-2017, 05:51 AM

Systemd is a good thing, because it is available on all linux distributions.

fatmac · 04-17-2017, 07:56 AM

If it were just another init system, there would have been no outcry, but it is not, it is being integrated into other programs, causing a lot of bother to people who like 'freedom', whether you are for it or not, you can see that for your self.

Personally, I like the unix way of doing things, & will continue to support those who continue along this line.

Xeratul · 04-17-2017, 08:07 AM

It is just meaning that the original "Unix philosophy" is no longer existing in today's Linux community.

The today's Linux community is not congruent at all.

So, let's take a simple programmer example. Are you ready?
GTK is today classic and standard, right? Compiling this will cause in interesting results on your installation.

Code:

/* example-start base base.c */

#include <gtk/gtk.h>

int main( int   argc,
          char *argv[] )
{
    GtkWidget *window;
    
    gtk_init (&argc, &argv);
    
    window = gtk_window_new (GTK_WINDOW_TOPLEVEL);
    gtk_widget_show  (window);
    
    gtk_main ();
    
    return(0);
}
/* example-end */

Awesome example, right? herewith what it gives

Code:

The following NEW packages will be installed:
  autopoint build-essential debhelper dpkg-dev fakeroot gettext gir1.2-atk-1.0
  gir1.2-freedesktop gir1.2-gdkpixbuf-2.0 gir1.2-glib-2.0 gir1.2-gtk-2.0
  gir1.2-pango-1.0 intltool-debian libalgorithm-diff-perl
  libalgorithm-diff-xs-perl libalgorithm-merge-perl libasprintf-dev
  libatk1.0-dev libcairo-script-interpreter2 libcairo2-dev libdpkg-perl
  libfakeroot libfile-fcntllock-perl libgdk-pixbuf2.0-dev libgettextpo-dev
  libgettextpo0 libgirepository-1.0-1 libgtk2.0-dev libharfbuzz-dev
  libharfbuzz-gobject0 liblzo2-2 libmail-sendmail-perl libpango1.0-dev
  libpixman-1-dev libsys-hostname-long-perl libxcb-shm0-dev libxcomposite-dev
  libxcursor-dev libxi-dev libxml2-utils libxrandr-dev po-debconf
  x11proto-composite-dev x11proto-randr-dev
0 upgraded, 44 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 14.3 MB of archives.
After this operation, 45.3 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

sundialsvcs · 04-17-2017, 09:02 AM

As I said in another thread – the things that were true on an isolated 1970's minicomputer ... and, I was there ... are not today sacrosanct. Neither is the deployment situation the same. Today, a single large company might run hundreds or even thousands of Linux machines. They have to be able to control them remotely and to make them function as a distributed-computing unit. "systemd" was specifically conceived with these new operational requirements in mind.

If you can't conceive of a world without inittab and crontab with which to run your one Linux machine, there's no one stopping you ... even today ... from running your one Linux machine that way. But there was a reason for the various architectural decisions that the other teams made in constructing "systemd." And, there was a strongly perceived market demand, as seen by the various Linux distro author teams, to adopt it. They didn't do it out of reasons of conspiracy. They did it because they perceived that their customers demanded it.

Emerson · 04-17-2017, 09:36 AM

More systemd fun.

Xeratul · 04-17-2017, 09:42 AM

Sorry guys, this Systemd is adopted by most distros. This is a sane decision, otherwise, Linux distros would not be in favor of it.

If you are not happy of today's Linux, you can make your own distro or can anytime rewrite another Unix-like operating system. This time, you could make it really GNU, free, and without all those necessary libs for graphical apps; besides, you may remove java, perl, python, mono,...

Besides, good luck to compile anything from scratch, since many libs are require

This is why people should re-think about X11 and Motif or the ugly simplicity.

Have fun:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Assembler

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd

Emerson · 04-17-2017, 09:48 AM

Great logic. If something is widespread then it is a good thing. Like plague in middle ages.

Xeratul · 04-17-2017, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emerson

Great logic. If something is widespread then it is a good thing. Like plague in middle ages.

People bare it and even better keep installing it, right?

Many many Ubuntu users are there (with Systemd).

pingu_penguin · 04-17-2017, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Sorry guys, this Systemd is adopted by most distros. This is a sane decision, otherwise, Linux distros would not be in favor of it.

What would you say if distros threw it out in a year ? esp when they realize its re-inventing the wheel.

hydrurga · 04-17-2017, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs

They did it because they perceived that their customers demanded it.

Not necessarily. Changes are also often developer-led, to allow easier future development and maintenance of the platform.

Or, of course, a mixture of the two.

Xeratul · 04-17-2017, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu_penguin

What would you say if distros threw it out in a year ? esp when they realize its re-inventing the wheel.

It won't throw it.

Linux is now a big business, man.

I have a complete freedom, since I own my code, formats and applications.
https://github.com/spartrekus/

hydrurga · 04-17-2017, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu_penguin

What would you say if distros threw it out in a year ? esp when they realize its re-inventing the wheel.

If ifs and buts were pots and pans.

Re-inventing the wheel, no. Redesigning it, yes.

pingu_penguin · 04-17-2017, 10:04 AM

I do not like systemd because you do not have the freedom to replace it without messing things.

Quote:

If ifs and buts were pots and pans

I thought it went - If ifs and buts were candy and nuts , it would be a merry xmas