Good point and please note that there are two varieties - essential and flexible. Essential includes things like gender which are unchangeable (excepting in appearance, I suppose) but religion (and other things that should and can be altered) is flexible and that sort of "group think' needs to wither away.

This is also necessarily correct! sundialsvcs is right.

Can we draw a conclusion that -- what good is brought by religion; but what bad is done by religious?

Just a question.

Fix:Not when you use "spirituality" with an emphasis on all the wrong $pear$... fear should not burst bubbles!.edu :cry::tisk:

I am unaware that gangs commonly venture far from their own turf to mug people but if this is so in any city this is a failure of the Police and should elicit strong community outrage. I think it is still true about deaths as I doubt gangs promote promiscuous murder of the citizenry as that just "draws heat" for no gain.... that is unless the victim attempts to draw his gun. It seems highly unlikely that an armed citizen has any sort of edge on someone who attacks aware of his goal and with intent and possibly with weapon already drawn at an unsuspecting citizen. Unarmed mugging victims at least escape with their lives and are then able to gain greater police protection.


With this, as stated, I tend to agree but it doesn't address the difference between common weaponry and military such as assault rifles and compact submachine guns.


Possibly so but I am not going to bet on a 0.1% chance over zero. Warfare has drastically changed since The Revolution. More to the point, if we even assume a coup d'etat where tyranny is installed essentially overnight, guerilla style warfare has proven, as it is now doing in the Middle East with IEDs etc, that weapons can be had in that event. There is no need to have weapons of warfare in casual ownership among the populace. That's just an accident awaiting opportunity.


As I stated, there is no need for shame at all since it is simply how it came to be and we had no choice in the matter. Not being aware of choices or that otherwise good men are still capable of horrific (and wrong) choices. simply insures the likelihood of a repeat performance.

Just FTR I was once approached by a Native American in Denver who addressed me by, "Greetings Fellow American" who then begged for "spare change for a Native American down on his luck". I told him emphatically "No!" and he asked me why I was so angry. So I told him I wasn't stupid and got the implication of blame and guilt in "Fellow American" and that while on a vastly reduced scale was just as victimizing and racist as what so many Settlers did, of which I was painfully aware and firmly denounce and refused to take responsibility, let alone blame, for a choice that was not mine to make. Having given him the respect of an honest answer, he apparently saw me likewise and we talked, man to man, for 20 minutes. Part of that conversation was the damage he was doing to himself by begging on the street and the impression that gives that it is not usually for food and shelter, and if it was, then he needed to find a different and sustainable means if he truly wanted to honor his heritage as a Brave. I told him I could afford to buy him lunch if he was hungry but would not hand over hard-earned cash to feed self-destructive behavior. We parted shaking hands. I can only hope the challenge did him some good, but I know it made him think.

I'd amend that to read "religious" in both camps and add that while people will interpret as they see fit, there is a special danger in "Divine Right" and "Chosen People". Without that transference and vindication one must accept responsibility firmly on one's own shoulders.

I want to start with a $1-bill sized piece of blank paper: then print 1-inch of it(, on one side,) a dollar bill and the rest on how to fish all folded with some line and a fish hook... (you know to look like a $1 :shake: tho mind you probably not good to pass in some hoods! Attachment 22384 :hattip:)

If they can't even do an amusing little dance to entertain us and the only skill or effort they're putting is to ask for money? Then F the mornos for giving them a dollar.gov &c.

In books they wish we could tru$t!

Fix:
 

☮ ✌

It's actually common for gangs to go to rich neighborhoods and commit burglaries there..

Not unless you're Bruce Lee.

With appending Russian and Chinese tensions I have to disagree.

I'll take my chances, besides I firmly believe if there were vigilant armed citizens about, then they would end such situations pretty quickly.

Took me awhile to understand the racism in that, but I get it now.. The government I think needs to do more to help the homeless. Living on the streets should be illegal, we should have homeless cities with provided tents. They would have work assembling or doing something, and getting paid for it until they can get a real job and living space..

Is a gun owner and everyone who know they own, good or bad? There's a blurred line there and a damned good place for a robbery, GUN$! Then some will now say, you can DIY a gun or make whatever to kill? Yes becau$e "WE" F-ing ALLOW IT!!!!!!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::tisk:

Some religious people lying to others than themselves: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...09b4c43c1bfbe?
go figure?

Not that we don't all at some point( these days ). But, could that be more because there's right and wrong vrs mythology and wrong? Prove it's not or try and learn to! ;)

Back on Track and Moving On - A New Chapter in this Thread

Anyone following this thread can see that recently something of a milestone occurred followed by a bit of a stall. The milestone was a reveal of the dedication to discovering truth, or lack of dedication to that end, of the 2 opposing camps of Intelligent Design and Evolution Science. It is my opinion that we missed an important opportunity that has considerable gravity in this discussion of Belief and Non-Belief regarding a Supreme Creator. I hope to show that it doesn't matter much whether you are religious, scientific, or some mixture of both but it is absolutely right and proper that Evolution is a key element that must be dealt with however one's convictions are formed.

To recap, the milestone occurred when OregonJim inserted his own conclusion in what was made to look like a direct quote. The point in question seemed to be whether or not Lucy, a specimen of the Australopithecus afarensis, genus, species and family, wa a direct human ancestor or not. It may have seemed that to many but really that was not the point. The point was actually how can Evolution explain such a creature and all the other creatures of incredibly ancient times has resulted in who we, Homo Sapiens, are today.

It is in our nature to prefer neat tidy straight lines but Nature doesn't work like that, often to our consternation and chagrin, but nevertheless Nature is messy and apparently not directed to any clear, long term goal. We need to realize that Lucy was not alone, not only as an individual but as a species. We know there are several variations of Australopithecus, with Africanus being only one other. We also know that there are direct ancestors of the Genus Homo. For those not familiar with Biological divisions, Genus is above Species.

Until recently there was a huge gap in the fossil record between Australopithecus and Homo. That gap is rapidly and profoundly closing and with it a whole new understanding of how Evolution actually works. As late as 1990 all of the fossils of that epoch "in the gap" could fit in a shoebox and still have room for a pair of shoes. This is not meant to trivialize the evidence contained within that amount since modern forensic archaeology can accomplish things like scraping fossilized tarter off of a single tooth and determine what was the most common food stuffs for that animal, whether human or "lower". However, in a few years surrounding 2010, not only did that "shoebox" become filled but now the fossils fill rooms. What these fossils tell us is extremely important.

They tell us that during a period of time between 2,000,000 and 4,000,000 years ago there were numerous diversions that almost defy neat categorization into Genus, Species and Family. There were apparently large numbers of ape-like creatures... so many that there were even large numbers of groups that walked upright, bipeds. Just as with the wide variations we see in dogs, in fact larger in the Genus Canis which includes 9 species still in existence today (example - wolves, dogs and dingoes) almost all of which can interbreed, producing hybrids, it appears that most of these apes were able to interbreed, creating a wide variety of changes, most of which went extinct as a direct line, but all contributing to the gene pool that would eventually result in Homo. It is not a clear, straight line but it is how Nature seems to work. This "seems" is not due to any one specialized branch of science and evidence but numerous branches over vast amounts of time that all agree on a fundamental level. Please remember that virtually all human individuals have great difficulty in wrapping their heads around even 100 years, let alone 10,000, 10.000,000 or 10,000,000,000. You may realize that even looking back 10 years you may have a hard time grasping that stretch of time and all it's changes. All at once it can seem like only yesterday and a whole lifetime ago and it gets more difficult as "the arrow of time" flies further.

This may be why it can feel hard for humans to imagine how mere chance can result in complex change but the evidence is in fact all around us if we only bother to look. The bottom line is that unless one is solely religious and subscribes somehow to the concept that "nothing can be known" other than what scripture reveals, one simply must accept that our Universe is vastly old and that if some sentient Being caused it or not, this is how it is built - simple things combine to make complex things, break apart and reform into yet different things, shaped by the environment that exists at the time.

Did ancient humans know things modern humans do not? Emphatically yes! because we no longer depend on such technologies like stacking stones without mortar or concrete, but as far as deep understanding of our Universe it is sheer folly to imagine they knew more than we do. "There is no such thing as a free lunch" as Heinlein quipped, which means that we must give up some things to take on new things, but for better and for worse, technology not only facilitates but drives the ability to understand.

It is my hope that this thread counts for considerably more than a mere shouting match. It is, in my opinion, not a tempest in a teapot and while Macbeth may possibly have correctly summed an individual life as


It is not so for our species, or at the very least, doesn't have to be. We can each avail ourselves of the latest, painstakingly researched information, and thanks to PCs and the Internet, if we are careful we can learn from experts in fields we could not have possibly been exposed to just 20-40 years ago. Don't forget that 40 years ago cars were lucky to last 50,000 miles and commonly got 10mpg, there were no PCs (hard drives weighed in at around a ton) or even CDs and the closest thing to a cellphone weighed almost 5 pounds. Some may argue, for example, that analog music recording on vinyl discs or professional tape was/is superior to digital optical media but to expand that into "nothing has evolved" is ludicrous and narrow-minded. Knowledge has certainly advanced and at an ever increasing pace. It is impossible for one individual to keep up with it all, but throwing up one's hands and pretending nothing has changed is counter-productive and foolish.

Evolution as a natural as well as directed process is an indisputable fact of existence. Only minor details are worthy of any dispute. The Earth is provably NOT only thousands of years old, nor even millions, but billions. If your science or religion disputes or doesn't bother to incorporate that, you are decidedly on the fringe and in direct opposition to hundreds of generations of the greatest battle ever fought, the battle of the human mind to comprehend who we are and where we live.

***Note***: - If you'd like to know more about the recent discoveries in the Evolution of Man, one good place to start is to search "Rising Star Cave" where you will find books, video clips, whole TV episodes like Nova, and complete movies and interviews. It is terrifically exciting and shows incredible physical bravery as well as mental discipline that provides anwers and questions a-plenty.

***Note 2*** - In 2014 a lab ground up a rock from Greenland recently uncovered by melting ice sheets that was dated at the high end of 3.8 Billion years ago. In it were unmistakable, direct evidence of waste products from bacteria and one-celled animals. The time life has had to start keeps getting pushed back and better understood. Contrast this with the analogy that if we take the 4.5 Billion years since our Earth formed, and translated that into a 24 hour day, the arrival of our most primitive bipedal ancestors happened just 4 seconds ago.

The average religious minds can't be open to many other ideas or religions, for not so obvious reasons to themselves.!?

Religions, try and catch them all!

+ http://www.popsci.com/pokemon-go-has...src=SOC&dom=fb