So, the Slackware Team surrended in the front of RUST, and there is NO more modern Firefox packages for us?
 

What the heck happens with Firefox?

I know, I know, it is all about that RUST compiler, which does not compile itself, but always/anyways it can be put in /extra as repackaged binaries, just like we do with Java or FlashPlayer builds...

Why I care about a more modern Firefox on slackware-current? Because of its ridiculous high optimization of the memory consumption in the latest releases (now 55.x).

Long story short, where 52.3.x ESR wants 3.5GB memory (for a few hundred tabs, of course), the 55.x version wants around 500 MB. That's a goddamned difference! ;)

is 55.x esr? if not, I do not want it.

I just download the 55.0.1 binary from Mozilla and extracted it to its own directory. It certainly is faster than 52.3. No doubt about it.

ESR stands just for Extended Support Release, nothing magic here, you know... ;)

I agree that may make sense to go ESR in a stable release, BUT the current stay on top of many other included software, anyways...

If we want really those old good versions, maybe we should NOT jump always on the latest X.org, consequently breaking every time the AMD drivers, BTW... :D

1. I thought the policy was (at least for a while) to have the latest Firefox for -current, and ESR for stable?

2. Slackware can always go back to repackaging the binary Firefox releases, which it did for years.

FWIW Jean-Philippe Guillemin told me that he very much likes Firefox 55, especially as he gets a great sound from it, also better performances as others have said. He cares for that a he is also a musician.

You can get a package in this repo, should be OK on top of Slackware-current.

In Slint I ship Mozilla-Firefox ESR (a repackaging).

v55.0 has been out for 4 days. 4 days! And 55.0.1 was just released 2 days ago. If Pat does add it, he not only needs to build the newer version of Firefox, but also introduce rust into the system and all the testing that would need to go into that. Give it time...

And for any who are curious, the next ESR based on rust isn't expected until late Q1 2018, based on v59.

BTW, "We cannot build the latest Firefox (meanwhile was 53.x) because the RUST doesn't compile itself" is a really old story, definitively not "only" 4 days old... ;)

Long story short, since 53.x we are stuck on ESR for current.

How RUST looks being a showstopper, I propose to give it (to RUST) the same treatment on /extra, like the one given to Google Chrome:

An user repackaged binary, if s/he needs it for real.

Why not just use the binary package for the meantime? I expect the new Firefox will be added in some form in the future just like KDE 5 LTS because there is no announcement saying its going to be removed.

Bearing in mind that the official binary Mozilla ship no longer includes support for ALSA. Which may be a concern for some of us pulseaudio hold-outs.


I gave up on Firefox a while back, so I don't really care one way or the other.

Thanks for the pointer. I installed the mozilla binary package in /opt and pointed /usr/bin/firefox to it. The new release feels a bit more snappy, so yeah i'll stick with it for now.

Oh, if you care about my wealth, to note that I already use an own built Firefox 55.0.1, using this RUST package: https://slackbuilds.org/repository/1...elopment/rust/

I made this thread not for me, I am fine, thanks you!, but for others. ;)

What is the sense to abandon a well know working "KDE4 LTS" for a to be abandoned "KDE 5 LTS", which is just given because they want to switch to Plasma 6 development?

WHY NOT TO JUMP RIGHT ON THE PLASMA SIX? :D

BUT, this is a story for another thread... ;)

There is always APULSE for you, you know... ;)

Darth, you are an interesting character. You demand the absolute latest versions of some things, but years/decades old versions of others. I guess that's where that saying comes from, "you can't please everyone."

That is nice of you Darth Vader. What I don't understand is why are you using Current when so many updates make you unhappy? The older versions of Slackware are still supported and don't contain the offending updates.

Plasma 6 LTS isn't released yet. They are still working on Plasma 5. There is no Qt 6.

No thanks, from what I remember of using 'aoss' it was always a bit flakey because of how it made use of LD_LIBRARY_PATH which upset some programs. 'apulse' seems to be very much the same sort of thing and though it might work it all seems a bit hackish to me and I'd rather just use Chrome which doesn't require me to dick around.

Waiting for a technology to mature before incorporating it into Slackware is not "surrendering"; it is simply prudent.

Slackware is stable and reliable. There are reasons for that, a certain relationship of cause and effect. Don't assume the Slackware team is full of dolts. If their decisions make no sense to you, consider that they might know something you don't.

I always kept up to date on Firefox in my 32 bit 14.0 install (that I still sometimes use and BTW ALSA oddly still works for me... go figure) but I decided to stick with ESR for 14.2 Multilib. Recently Firefox began to leak memory like a sieve even causing a complete loopy lockup that even Ctrl-Alt-Backspace wouldn't stop and that is so completely rare I don't even remember the last time that happened... maybe 5-6 years ago?

So I did as I always do/did on 14.0 - went to ftp mozilla and downloaded and extracted the tar.gz for the latest and then copied it to /usr/lib64/firefox-55 and for testing just changed the symlink to point to it instead of ESR and gave it a shot. TLDR, for me anyway, it is simply better and doesn't leak. I'll probably keep it but if I decide to go back to ESR it's two quick little commands away.


oh yeah and RUST? what RUST?

So, the Slackware Team surrended in the front of RUST, and there is NO more modern Firefox packages for us?
 

I may be off base here, but isn't the whole point of Slackware (and GNU/Linux in general) to have choice? Don't like the version included by default? Add your own. Compile from source. Write a SlackBuild. Share it with the rest of the community. If you lack the knowledge/skills and the desire to learn, maybe try Ubuntu, instead.

Oh, it is about prudence, plain and simple? Prudence about a compiler not used by any other software from Slackware?

Then, let's return back to repackaging the Firefox official binaries, as well plain and simple! ;)

I for one, I believe that make no sense to stuck with some memory eating pig, just to be prudent with some new kid in the block, when we can just use the improved versions without headaches about viability of RUST compiler, anyway NOT used by any other software from Slackware. :D

RUST is a programming language, just like is C/C++, and looks that it to be very efficient in some particular niches, as demonstrated by the dramatic improvements of Firefox, after adopting some pieces written in RUST.

Oh, and BTW, the RUSTC (aka the RUST compiler) manage to compile itself. At least the version 1.19.0.

The bad thing is that RUSTC is written in RUST, then you need a RUST compiler to compile it, distributed as binaries by the project.

After this bootstrapping, the RUSTC compile itself, like any honorable compiler. Read: if you have the RUST compiler on system, you can compile a (superior) version.

But, I guess our BDFL is a bit dissapointed that RUSTC is not written in C/C++, then compilable with GCC... ;)

I have both the knowledge and skills to follow the Firefox builds all the way, trust me! ;)

BUT, guess what? I believe that not all Slackware users share my own abilities (and my hardware).

That's WHY I believe also that Slackware, by definition a binary packages shipping distribution, should ship the best versions, if possible. By default.

I am not against the updates. Like you see, even with this thread, I push for an update... :D

BUT, as you suspect, I like to use the Slackware Linux, not some ugly Plasmaware Linux... ;)

I know is egoistically, but also I appreciate well when my drivers works fine, too.

What distribution isn't, by definition, a binary packages shipping distribution? (aside from maybe Gentoo/Funtoo)

"Best versions" is entirely subjective. In your use case, with your hardware, the new and shiny Firefox is better. Awesome, use it.

I imagine many users would say the same about the ESR release. Technology is inherently fickle; no one thing is going to work for everyone, but the ESR release is generally easier to maintain on multiple systems and is a slower moving target.

Now, in regards to the -current branch shipping bleeding edge Firefox binaries, that would make sense only if the Slackware devs decided to make that the new default and stop shipping the ESR release, as -current will eventually become the new Stable.

I feel confident that I understand your point/argument, but I'm sticking with my original rebuttal. If you want the new/shiny release, use it. If you really think it is the "best", share your build with the rest of the community. If it achieved wide-spread adoption, that just might convince the devs to adopt it as well in Stable, which would in turn provide the newer shinier in -current.

Firstly, to note that we talk about a particular web browser, and is generally considered that for web browsers the latest versions are the best. Always. Even on Windows. Specially on Windows, where they auto-update with not questions asked, as you know. ;)

Secondly, to note that we talk about slackware-current, which is not some rolling release variant of Slackware, but its very development tree, where happens naughty things like upgrading GLIBC and breaking everything, where the latest mightiest GCC7 is pushed and nothing compile, and so on...

It can break, man! It can break maybe every day! It is not for "users" but for "testers", and I for one, I will love to test the latest PV's take on Firefox 55. ;)

AND, the ESR as argument is questionable, at least for me, as slackware-current used to push (in the latest of its iterations ,at least), always the latest Firefox, then on the next release to be picked the latest ESR.

Fair enough.

If we didn't all have our own opinions/likes/needs, we'd all be the same person. That wouldn't be very fun.

P.S. To be honest, I think your choice of wording in the thread title and several posts just rubbed me the wrong way. It may be a language-barrier situation (Romanian?). But, that is no fault of your own. Reading back through the thread, I see that ultimately you appear to be doing exactly what I suggested, i.e. spreading the release in question to the community for those who wish to use it, and that is great.

It is also worth noting that we don't know when Pat will intend to move -current to the next stable release. It might be before an ESR release that is built with rust is available. If he's shooting for a end of the year release, it's still 3ish months away from when Mozilla plans on releasing the ESR based on v59, which will be the first ESR using rust.

With -current, at some point you need to stay away from the bleeding edge and start looking to make sure everything you currently have is stable and then only upgrade what is necessary/safe.

Using an ESR version might be a moot point for you, but it isn't for everyone. Many people prefer to use something they know will have support for a long time.

Does Rust need to be installed to run Firefox, or just to build it?

If it's just a a build dependency, then I don't really see the problem. Just build the Firefox package with it on any other system, and don't bother including it in Slackware. It was never an expectation that a fresh Slackware install would be capable of rebuilding all of its packages.

The RUST is just a build dependency for Firefox, nothing more. No need for it to run the Firefox.

As anything before, Patrick will determine if, how, and when it will be added, so just be patient and let him do the research. If you need a newer Firefox than the supplied one, you are free to unpack the official releases in the /opt directory at will.

I use Nightly-x64 in /opt myself.

Isn't that literally the point of the sources DVD? You can recompile any included software using just the full Slackware install and the sources. Thats the impression I got from the main site, SlackDocs, manual pages, etc.

I agree, that would be a departure from the norm. As far as I know, any of the Slackware sources should be rebuild-able with a full Slackware install and nothing more (though I've never tried rebuilding all of them, so I could be wrong).

see ESR more as a LTS, and the other one, firefox current, as a developer snapshot. No magic here. ;)
if you put a non LTS into current, and than want to stabilize for release, you might what to go down with the version number, or ship an unstable package with Slackware, or adopt to the release cycle of the whole distribution to the release cycle from FF.
So this is a different situation to your comparison with xorg, no magic here, just details, BTW ... :D
also, and this is why i prefer ESR, ff-current breaks plugins from time to time, and I know a lot of users that have changed because of this to chrome.
Mozilla made a huge mistake by making their current branch to the 'default' one, and the ESR to only those who know about it.
It should have been precise vice versa, than firefox would not have that big loss on users, which hey have.
Mozilla made its users to beta testers, and frustrated a lot of plugin authors with their unstable and unpredictable development plans. The shrinking user numbers are the result.

As far as I know, that's a misconception. I'm going by this quote from Pat:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...3/#post3978712

That is factually incorrect, especially with regard to Firefox. Some releases are better than others, and it's seldom a linear progression.

Prefer no binary repacks and no more gnome in stable tree, tbh. I'll just remove it either way because of how demanding it is.

I stand corrected. Makes sense. (The thread that link is for is RIDICULOUS)

Okay, now that I looked at that thread I remember that I've heard that before. However, I still think it would be a departure from the norm for a SlackBuild script to require a certain compiler but for that compiler to not be available on Slackware at the time the package is built.

Ah, that asshole LuckyCyborg... I used the occasion to add a bit of explanatory text to the Slack Docs FAQ page: https://docs.slackware.com/slackware...d_from_scratch . I hope that it is sufficient to fend off any future trolls.

Eric, good to know that a well know fact about Slackware (that it is not rebuild-able from its given sources) it is also stated officially. ;)

But, what is your opinion about the Pigzilla Firehog shipped by Slackware even in its development tree?

Also, you consider to be normal for a web browser to eat 3.5GB memory or something really stinks?

As a Slackware Team insider, maybe you can enlighten us... :D

Just install and use the 55.x version, and you will see that it is dramatic superior from all points of view... ;)

You weren't talking to me, but...

yeah that's normal.

Then, how you explain that three major versions later, same software manage to do the same job using around 500MB ?

Well... I do not use Firefox, so I have no opinion to share on this.

Do add-ons like uMatrix, uBlock Origin and Tree Style Tabs work with this latest Firefox? They're the reason I use Firefox. Memory use is not an issue for me because I have 32GB but the plugins definitely are an issue. Perhaps Pat has this in mind?

I do not know, because I do not use those particular plugins. :(

Yet, all my own used plugins works like a charm on both 52.3.x and 55.x.

BUT, how about you to do a try of 55.x and to see yourself if your plugins (still) works or not?

Reporting back the results would be nice, thought... ;)

It's too much hassle setting up -current just for that. I thought you might have ensured all these things were working before insisting on the change!

:D

If you really want, no one stops you to test the thing also in your stable installation... ;)

So sorry that I have not enough time to test all those 100000 Firefox extensions! :D

In other hand, as personally I use the Firefox with some really heavy extensions for web-development, I guess that it behave OK for most of them.

And talking about my own "insisting" on this change, look...

On all the release cycles since 12.0 always the slackware-current used to push the latest Firefox. I was there, I remember.

The real shocking change is the push of an ESR on the current development cycle, you know... ;)

You don't say? It's almost as though picking packages for a distribution requires more than looking at the version number and choosing the highest ;-)

Remember that when you see pushed the latest GLIBC, GCC or X.org, which really break the things... ;)

For gods sake! I show you that that damned Firefox made real improvements in the latest releases, I do not ask you about adding PAM or SystemD here!

It is about a freaking web browser!