LinuxQuestions.org - SLINT - The Slackware Internationalization Project

- Slackware (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/)

- - SLINT - The Slackware Internationalization Project (https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/slint-the-slackware-internationalization-project-4175455701/)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bartgymnast (Post 5325594)

I am testing the iso file as I write this on vmware. (14.1.2)
I am seeing problems that the installer exceeds my screen.

during installation of packages I see 3x parts of packages descriptions, as well as error that it cannot set locale en_us.utf8 because of not being able to find file

Hi Bart,

thanks for the report.

I will try to reproduce here. I'll re-install VMware Player for that, but first a few questions:

Did you check the ISO's integrity with md5sum?
Are you trying the 32 or 64 bit version?
Which VMware product/version are you using? I can download VMware Player 7.1.0. for free and would prefer to use that ;)

TIA for your answers.

@gor0: congratulations for your insight.

didier,

I just the 64bit, I did check checksum

I am using vmware esxi 5.1

Client has hw-v9 and normal bios (non EFI)

So I did a full installation of Slint64-14.1.2 in VMware Player 7.1.0 in a 64-bit host (they don't provide bundles for 32-bit hosts anymore) and confirm your findings.

The problem with the display seems specific to VMware, that doesn't refresh the screen properly in some cases (e.g. after running fdisk) if a frame buffer is used. In your case and mine the font used was a TrueType Deja Vu Sans Mono (size 24 in my case), displayed through fbterm. The installer writes some info about the display in /tmp, so I could check that I have a terminal size set to 91x27 (cat /tmp/display gives that info), which should be enough. I just re-started the installer directly running "setup" and the display was correct. In any case you can get the "legacy" display (plain Linux console and bitmap font) appending "fbt=n" to the installer's command line. Or, after launching the installer just type "exit" to exit from the framebuffer.
The missing locale definition for en_US.utf8 is indeed a bug and I don't know why I didn't see that earlier: I omitted to add that locale in the archive /usr/lib64/locale/locale-archive, that only contains the locale definitions that correspond to translations. I will upload fixed installers ASAP.

So, thanks again Bart!

All "small" installers have been rebuilt and uploaded.

"Full" installers for version 14.1 have also been rebuilt and uploaded. They bear the version number 14.1.3.

This is to add the previously missing locale definitions for en_US.utf8

I won't fix the "full" installers for versions 14.0 and 13.37 as very few people download them and the bug is not lethal: however annoying, actually it's just a warning.

Other than that, I take the occasion to thank the folks who worked on the translations recently, be it of the installer and admin scripts (sbokolanov for Bulgarian, cilang for Indonesian and giogio for Italian) or the web pages (spongetron for German, hugok of Portuguese of Portugal, overbite for Turkish and giogio for Italian).

As a reminder, you can always see an overview of the translations, here for the installer and admin scripts, there for the web pages.

thanks Didier,

I will test it out in the coming days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didier Spaier (Post 5322855)

Ricardo Simões is a new member of the Portuguese (Portugal) translation team.

Thanks for joining and welcome on board Slint, Ricardo!

Nice!

generic kernel on install...

howdy folks...I'm going to do a new installation so need advice: can I install SLINT with generic kernel from the beginin?

and

what are essential packages groups for a decent install ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeaStiE35 (Post 5332540)

howdy folks...I'm going to do a new installation so need advice: can I install SLINT with generic kernel from the beginin?

No.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeaStiE35 (Post 5332540)

what are essential packages groups for a decent install ...

That all depends what you mean by a decent install. See e.g. here for a description of the packages series. But a full installation is still recommended unless you have a really good reason to do otherwise.

What changes do you suggest in the Slint installers and packages?

I just refreshed the website to include updated translations to Russian, thanks Yaroslav.

We have also pending updates to the German version of the installer, thanks Christian aka taleon.

I consider shipping nano in the installer in addition to vi, as it's way more beginners friendly in my opinion. What do you think?

Feel free to make any other suggestion of addition or modification.

These changes could occur either as an update of the version 14.1 or in the next stable version.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didier Spaier

I consider shipping nano in the installer in addition to vi, as it's way more beginners friendly in my opinion. What do you think?

I agree.

I also agree. I always use nano.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didier Spaier (Post 5361600)

I consider shipping nano in the installer in addition to vi, as it's way more beginners friendly in my opinion. What do you think?

I think you should consider your goal. If your goal causes you to deviate from Slackware by adding stuff you think are required in the installer, you may want to toss a coin and think about dropping the use of the name "Slackware" in your Slint installer. It would no longer be the "Slackware installer", even though it installs a (somewhat modified) version of Slackware.

Thanks Eric for your post, that gives me food for thoughts and the opportunity to make a freeze frame.

I initially stated the project's goal this way:

Quote:

I wish that all users can install and use Slackware Linux in their native language in the future.

This contributes to make Slackware more accessible, which is the ultimate aim.

Here is a list of the main specific Slint features, and how they contribute to this aim:

The user can display all messages of the installer in her preferred language among Dutch, Polish, Swedish, English (USA), Portuguese (Brazil), Turkish, French, Portuguese (Portugal), Ukrainian, German, Russian, Greek, and Spanish (Latin America). More to come I hope, Globally Indonesian is @ 73, Italian @ 81 at time of writing.
Whenever possible, the installer adapts the font size to the maximum resolution of the display device. This makes the messages easier to read on small screens with a high resolution[1].
The user can display all messages of the installer on a Braille terminal. This allows blind users owning such a device to install the system without the help of a sighted person.
The user can create user accounts from the installer. This makes the system more quickly usable.
The user can keep the keyboard and locale settings used in the installer in the installed system. This makes the system more quickly usable.
[Planned] The user can use nano to edit files. nano is one of the most intuitive text editors for Linux newcomers.
[Not yet planned, maybe?] The user can hear all messages of the installer through a speech synthesizer. This would allow blind users that don't want to use or can't afford an expensive Braille terminal, or refreshable Braille display, to install the system without the help of a sighted person.

There are also specific features provided in the installed system mostly through installation of a Slint package:

The user can have the messages from the commands adduser, eliloconfig, explodepkg, installpkg, liloconfig, makebootstick, makepkg, netconfig, pkgtool, removepkg, setconsolefont, timeconfig, upgradepkg, xorgconfig, xwmconfig, displayed in the same languages as in the installers.
The user can display the man pages of these commands as well as slackpkg and slackpkg.conf in the same languages, plus Indonesian and Italian.
Then, if a Braille terminal was used during installation, it can be also used, already configured, in the installed system through installation of a specific brltty package at end of installation.

Of course adding features cause deviations from the genuine Slackware installers' and systems content and working. The boring but almost complete list is of these changes is here.

Is the added stuff "required" in the installer? this question can be split in two:

Are the new features that this added stuff implements useful to reach the stated aim? I think so but am ready to hear all opinions (hence the question about nano that leaded to your post).
Is there a better way of implementing these features than this stuff? Certainly other ways are possible and I look forward for advices and suggestions.

Now why should I possibly drop the use of the name "Slackware" in the Slint installer?

I see three possible reasons:

Because bugs in our installer could jeopardize Slackware's reputation.
Because we are not permitted to use the Slackware trademark
Because usage of the name Slackware would mislead the user, would don't get what she expects

1) Although we do use the name Slackware in Slint (The Slackware Internationalization Project), Slint's home page clearly states that "The Slint project is neither affiliated to nor endorsed by Slackware". I am not aware of aany case where a bug in a Slint installer has been wrongly considered as a bug in Slackware, or a maintenance request regarding Slint has been wrongly addressed to Pat (but maybe there has been that I am not aware of).

2) Among the provisions of the Slackware Trademark Policy I see:

Code:

3.  Except by written permission from  Slackware Linux, Inc., the Slackware

    trademark may not be used as (or as part of) a product name, company

    name, or registered domain name.

So having made Pat aware of the project was probably not enough, I should have requested a written permission to use the name Slackware.
This mistake will be remedied today.

3) Here are what one could consider drawbacks in using a Slint installer versus a genuine one, or using a system installed with Slint or including a Slint package, versus a genuine Slackware system that I know of.

Displaying fully scalable True Type fonts in a frame buffer makes very difficult to choose a custom font during installation, so the user will have to set her preferred font after installation.
In the installed system genuine Slackware scripts are replaced by internationalized ones contained in the Slint package. Thus, if one of the genuine scripts is upgraded during during this Slackware version's life the user who does upgrade looses the internationalization. This occurs when a/glibc-zoneinfo is upgraded because the updated data are hard coded in the script /var/log/setup/timeconfig (then I have to provide an updated Slint package and tell the users to upgrade it). I don't remember other cases.
The internationalized script removepkg is significantly slower that the genuine one.
The script /etc/rc.d/rc.S is modified to possibly run "/etc/rc.d/rc.brltty start" as soon as the modules are loaded. Thus "slackpkg upgrade-all" that includes sysvinit-scripts prevents the daemon brltty to automatically start during system's initialization (I should advice the user to blacklist brltty in README_BRLTTY.

I don't think that these drawbacks be unbearable, at least I didn't receive complaints about them.

But maybe that's just because too few people actually use Slint, so nobody came across a bug or was badly hurt by a drawback yet. Alas, as far as the download statistics can tell, that could be the reason...

So, where are we heading to, and which path should we follow from this crossroad?

Let me quote Lewis Caroll:

Code:

`Cheshire Puss,' [said Alice]... `Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?'

  

`That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,' said the Cat.

  

`I don't much care where--' said Alice.

  

`Then it doesn't matter which way you go,' said the Cat.

We know where we want to get to (and we don't expect to meet a mad Hatter or March Hare there): in a place where Slackware is more accessible.

Technically, I hope that we have already removed some obstacles to a more widespread usage of Slackware and look forward for any suggestion to go farther.

But unfortunately, most potential Slint users just don't know that it exists and that obstacle is really difficult to overcome. Any idea or initiative to spread the word is welcome.

Of course the simplest way would be to integrate Slint stuff to Slackware. Even integrating only the internationalization and localization of the installer and admin scripts would be better than the current situation, and we could still provide "small" Slint installers with additional features.

If that happens (crossing fingers now) the contributors to the Slint project would continue adding and updating translations, that we would handover to Pat or the Slackware team in the form of completed and reviewed PO files.

[1] Initially this was intended to allow using True Type fonts to display CJK languages through usage of fbterm, but as with some hardware we have to fall back to using bitmap fonts we renounced to translate in ideographic languages at the moment. This is the most intrusive modification of the genuine installer as the init sequence is modified to first check the feasibility of using an fbterm then launch it.

Thanks for having read this very long post and have fun!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didier Spaier (Post 5365461)

I initially stated the project's goal this way:

Quote:

I wish that all users can install and use Slackware Linux in their native language in the future.

That was indeed the goal as I understood it. Make Slackware available in other languages than English, both during installation and actual use.
Internationalizing parts of Slackware is a commendable project, and even if that requires the replacement of some of the original Slackware packages with customized versions, I think that is acceptible. As long as you offer the documentation and instructions to maintain such a system in the long term, i.e. Slackware's updates should not break the internationalization of the computer. A blacklist system must be documented.

Quote:

The user can create user accounts from the installer. This makes the system more quickly usable.
[Planned] The user can use nano to edit files. nano is one of the most intuitive text editors for Linux newcomers.

This is what I call deviations from the goal. You are now moving into the position of the distro maintainer. You are no longer working to provide Slackware in other languages, but providing new features. You are altering its functionality and you are tinkering with the design principles and goals of Slackware. Not being able to create a user account in the installer is on purpose, by design. Not shipping nano in the installer is on purpose, by design.
This is where you would have to stop using the name Slackware.

Eric

I would like to welcome and thank for joining new Slint translators:

Th3 W4tch3r for Russian. This translation is complete at the moment, but there will be more to do in the future.
stereo advance for Serbian. Members of the Serbian team have not much time to devote to Slint at the moment but maybe that will change over time.
Dan-Simon Myrland aka slack2thefuture for Norwegian.

Dan-Simon already begun translating and goes fast forward. Congrats!

I would like to share the answer I made to one of his questions:

Quote:

On 06/06/2015 22:17, Dan-Simon Myrland wrote:

PS! Slint is a good initiative. I saw that AlienBob posted on the
linuxquestions thread, do you know if it's plausible that
these translations will be merged into the official Slackware release
some day?

I don't know. I didn't receive an answer so far to the last email that I sent on May 22 to Patrick J. Volkerding requesting that (again).

If I see no sign of that when the upcoming Slackware release will be tagged as beta (or release candidate if there is no beta), I will assume that the merge won't occur in that release.

Then, we will have to think of a way of leaving that open for a future Slackware release (unless I be told that this will never happen) but not "freezing" the features of Slint, kind of offering some modularity.

I will propose something when the words "beta" or "release candidate" will appear in the ChangeLog for Slackware-current. That will also trigger the internationalization of the few new messages to be translated in that release.

Then, in the future Slint releases we would remove the word Slackware anywhere it could create a confusion in users' minds as in the same email I officially requested the authorization to use the name Slackware in the Slint installer: I have to consider the lack of answer as a refusal.

I am still not in favor of considering Slint a derivative of Slackware as e.g. Salix: I see that as of a waste of energy and the scattering of an already very slim user base. But if we are leaded there I hope that we will however find a way to keep a bridge between our small island and mainland, so that users can easily travel from one to the other.

Other than that here are the locale settings suggested by Dan-Simon for Norwegian, that we'll use unless someone objects:
LANG=nb_NO.utf8
II_TT=nb_NO
True Type font: "DejaVu Mono"
Bitmap font=ter-114n # Actually we use different sizes with or without a frame buffer.
keymap=no-latin1.map
Locale dir=no
XKBLAYOUT: no
XKBVARIANT: none
XKBOPTION: none

Have fun!