That’s exactly how I arrived at XFCE, too. For me, XFCE strikes the right balance as well. I’ve never been much of a fan of KDE (3.x or 4.x, for that matter). I haven’t looked at what we around here call KDE 5 (but which the KDE developers don’t seem to want to hear).

Anyway, should the next KDE version ever become a part of the Slackware distribution (first in Current, then in the next Stable, I guess), then I would certainly try it out, but I would likely be hard-pressed to drop XFCE for it.

Those two locations are supposed to be there. They are defined with XDG Base Directory Specification. Directory ~/.cache base directory relative to which user-specific non-essential (cached) data should be written. Directory ~/.config base directory relative to which user-specific configuration files should be written. Seems a bit silly to not want Plasma 5 to place files in those directories.

No, I did not say that, but, regardless, IMHO, it is too intrusive.

You are correct, you did not say that. Fixed my post.

Intrusive: affecting someone in a way that annoys them and makes them feel uncomfortable.

I am the one who said that.

The problem is that it LITTERS ~/.config (and other directories... ~/.local/share) with haphazardly placed files and directories in among other configurations you don't want to nuke. It's a royal pain to remove (think messed up KDE/Plasma profile... I know people that have had to create a new user and migrate their data) and it can affect other desktop environments too. The crap in ~/.cache doesn't matter as much.

Also, the packages themselves... it's not so bad on Slackware at this time, as you can just use wildcards in /var/log/packages (e.g. ~alien) and not have to worry about package dependencies (reinstall anything if you break it). Try sorting out package dependencies with apt/dpkg or pacman.

The dependencies you will install for KDE Plasma 5 can also creep into your builds too. For example I had to recompile a lot of my stuff in /usr/local after cleaning up that mess because I unwittingly and unknowingly pulled in things like OpenAL and Wayland.

Bugger the living snot out of that. Never again. Use whatever language you want, it's invasive and intrusive.

To be fair, this is not KDE's fault.

From The American Heritage Electronic Dictionary:

The key word here in defining intrusion is 'force'. I think it originally comes from geology, where one type of rock sediment forces its way into the cracks of another over time. Just as an intruder forces their way into someone's home.

Correct.
:)

FVWM
 

It got boring to have to cope with all the beshittements of the newer window managers. It seemed like every rev broke something through structural changes, implementation of superfluous functionality, or code bloat.

I'm not much of a "diddling for diddling's sake" user - I want to perform some tasks as efficiently as possible, then get on with life.

That's why I run FVWM - and have for many years. It's not glamorous, but it doesn't constantly change the UI and stuff just runs well. And keeps running.

I like FVWM but they really took a slash and burn approach to recent versions. Lots of modules removed all of a sudden. I also feel that some people have taken ownership of it, as though it's their own private property.

Plucking up the courage to have a go at Awesome next. Anyone got copiously-commented configs I can look at?

Since so many modern Xfce fans started when they became (rightfully, if a we bit prematurely) disgusted with KDE4, I wonder how many of you have given TDE Trinity a try ? It's exceptionally fast even on a modest modern machine. I tried it and it's quite good but as much as I liked Krusader, Dolphin has won me over.

That's exactly why I use fvwm, too -- it's safe and sane, forever, not churn for the sake of churn. It's as close as software gets to bug-free, offers the features I need, and gives me the peace of mind that comes from knowing it will still be what it is twenty years from now.

I try to fill my every-day toolbox with such tools. Some fulfill the criteria better than others, and fvwm is one of the best.

Yes. Fvvm is nice, it's the default wm of OpenBSD. At the moment I'm running XFCE on most of my units. I run Fluxbox and OpenBSD 6.5 on an old T410 Thinkpad(it recently ran MATE). :)
If Slackware adds KDE-plasma I will move my faster units to that.

Tried Xfce when KDE4 came out but didn't like it. I'm playing with Trinity now as time permits. I did a straight install over a standard KDE4 (which is NOT the "official" way) just to see what happens and it's working well (apart from overwriting KDE4 configurations, so for now it is one or the other but not both). Certainly, to my mind, an improvement over KDE4, but I haven't tried a clean Trinity install so I don't know which essential (for me) KDE applications I'd be missing. I'm looking forward to next stable Slackware so I can compare it to Plasma5.

where did you install TDE from?

http://www.inpito.org/trinity.php

I don't like very many file managers (though I can configure Dolphin to be pretty nice), I've been using X File Explorer (based on FOX GUI toolkit) since it was XWincommander in 1999. One of the first things I build, soon after any distro is plunked down. I have to at least build FOX, even on distros that provide it, because I like it done a certain way and I want the "example" utilities.

Basically, the Trinity Desktop Environment is mostly just a window manager to me, that's why I don't care about the dated applications.

I was a diehard kde-3.5.xx user until the disaster known as kde-4.0. IMHO it was six years before kde-4 became "useable," but even then, I eventually went back to Xfce. Kde-5 I've tried several times and that
just isn't going to happen on any box I own, just for comestic reasons alone. If, IF, I was forced to use
kde it would be kde-4.whatever. No matter what you do, it is nearly impossible to make kde-5 attractive. It seems the snowflake kindergartners have taken over the classroom.
WHERE ARE the adults??!!

Funny how looks are such a personal thing. I really disliked the Windows XP look of KDE3, KDE4 was a lot better but Plasma5 is really again a lot better in terms of looks. Everytime I go back to a KDE4 session on one of my Slackware 14.2 computers, I long to be running Plasma5 again.
And performance-wise as well as with regard to functionality, Plasma5 tops KDE4.

Please, just don't try to stick to what you are used to. Try something new from time to time. It's what keeps your mind young and sharp.
Don't become one of these old folk who can only talk about how everything was better when you were young, and that the youth of nowadays are worth nothing. You were that youth, long ago.

I have a machine with kde4 and another with plasma 5, and I agree with you Eric, my experience is the same as you ;)

"New" is not always better, one, and, two, from a personal point of view, as you mentioned, kde-5
is flat out ugly as compared to kde-4. It is purely subjective, I know, but how anyone can call kde-5 better looking than kde-4.... is..... well, as I said, it is subjective.
OTOH, kde-5 does seem to make better use of the hardware resources, but I don't see how all the clutter from the dozens and dozens of configuration files helps.

Everything was better in the past, even the future ;-)

Would you care to elaborate what made you come to this conclusion? I have been using FVWM for over a year now but I do not follow the development closely.

That is my experience as well. KDE 5 is very responsive compared to KDE 4. In my opinion it's time to retire KDE 4 from Slackware. If it happens KDE 5 will be a welcome addition to the -current branch.

KDE v4 was the Vista of the Linux world.

I'm one of those dinosaurs that hates change. However, there's nothing nicer than Plasma 5 appearance wise. I've had that looking incredibly nice. I have used it in kubuntu (kubuntu backports PPA), arch, manjaro and slackware-current (Alien Bob, of course) and when I set that up for other people I take the time and configure it to blow their minds before I give it to them.

While I don't want that anymore, preferring something a bit simpler yet having enough functionality, I do have to say that the alien build of Plasma 5 that I had was one of the best builds of it that I've ever had. Absolutely everything worked, which is more than I can say for most builds. The last time I had one where absolutely everything worked was the first time I tried it, Plasma 5.12 in kubuntu backports. After that there was always some styling function, or effects that didn't work.

Just a sense from occasionally following the forums that the developers are very knowledgeable but also a little possessive about their baby.

With regard to dropped modules, man pages at fvwm.org will show you they have deprecated an awful lot in recent versions. Things like the Fvwm taskbar, for example. I haven't followed Fvwm development closely enough to know whether it was really warranted or just the whim of a developer.

The future isn't what it used to be...

... and it never was :D

Interesting that XFCE seems to be an almost default go-to when people get fed up elsewhere. I was a die hard Gnome user for a few years and never did 'get' KDE. When I switched to Slackware I just fell into a comfort zone with XFCE for years.

I'm at the point now where changes in my workflow have made tiling very attractive. Starting with terminals and tmux, my frustrations finally lead me to i3[-gaps] and I'm quite happy with it. I might give DWM a run if it proves more flexible. But overall my days of caring about eye-candy appear largely over (though I never say never).

Xfce largely "Just Works." It comes with everything most users would ever need, and allows for enough customization to keep most users happy. I don't run Xfce proper, but I use various Xfce applications: Thunar, xfce4-terminal (sometimes), xfce4-panel (and several plugins), and xfce4-power-manager.

I wouldn't say dwm is more flexible than i3, but it's arguably easier to set up.

Funny that you mention looks Eric.
I like Plasma 5's Breeze very much (except for small things such as scrollbars which I find atrocious), but I like the old industrial look of KDE1/Win95 much more. Just recently a window decoration and look and feel package known as "Reactionary" was launched at the KDE Store and I was really happy. Now I alternate among the two looks: Breeze and Reactionary, and I'm a happy camper :)