If you don't like text files, then what are you using Slackware for, you twat.

And that's what source code was invented for...

.

Drivel. I've been using Slackware exclusively for years, on desktops and laptops. What's the problem?

This is called "learning". Think. Learn. Do. Rinse and repeat. In any case, if you have to think, then it isn't trivial (for you). First you crawl, then you walk, then you run. Nobody can learn to walk for you.

Indeed. I attempted a quick install of Mandrake a year or so ago and couldn't even partition the drive the way I wanted. Within 20 seconds, I was sreaming for fdisk. 10 seconds later, I gave up.

Had similar problem with Mandriva about a year ago.

Also ncurses=GUI in my book.

its funny that the first half of the article he lists all the things i love about slackware, and the second half he complains that he doesnt know how to use linux without a gui making all the descisions for him.

Also:
"He doesn't include any scripts that might make using his system easier for those of us not interested in dicking around with text files every hour of every day..."

Personally I find that if I change a config file once, it stays that way, you know since there arent any scripts trying to change it back without my permission...

Aarrgh! Flashbacks of SuSEconfig. Nooooooooooooooo!

I think part of the issues raised by the article revolve around hardware. Obviously Moe has some quite modern hardware not supported by the 2.4 kernel, at least without much investigation. I've never had any problems with Slackware from Slackware 2.2 on, but I'm a programmer. Moe has a bit to learn, I fear. Slackware's stability, at least from my perspective, is wonderful, but I must admit, I grew up with the command line. I've always thought dragon's are mythical beasts, and have never understood why people often comment on the dragon drop characteristics of certain pieces of software.

Heh, I installed Mandrake 8 I believe. Found it hard to get things working. Installed Slack shortly later and been using it on my desktop for the last few years.

But in the same respect that we have a right to our own distro, he can say what he wants. Just like everything else in the Linux community we can choose to care. Personally I don't, just annoyed at having wasted the time reading it.

Hehe, same here. I know people who said they'd abandon Linux if they hadn't met Slackware. One of them was not an English speaker, so the majority of the web material wasn't available to him but with a bit of patience he learned all he needed to know (he uses Slack and BSD today, and helps others). This author is a bit on the lazy side it seems. Yes, Slack will not work out of the box as, say, Ubuntu does, but who said it will? Pat isn't trying to make Linux difficult, he's actually making it very easy for the more experienced users.

Some people think that GUI always makes things easier. It's like saying that calculators make math easier. They don't. They make the trivial tasks easy, but aren't good for anything else and they don't improve your knowledge or understanding a bit.

Basically, what I meant was that some tasks are easier on other distros - not necessarily GUI.

I love tinkering with Slackware - however I also have work to do. Slackware takes more effort than some other distros to get up and running as a desktop system.

A "trivial task" that I meant was installing software. apt-get makes it easy, Slackware's tgz packages make it unesesarily hard. Why can't there be a package manager such as slapt-get, that uses the same tgz packages. Slapt-get could do dependency checking, etc, while installpkg would still be there for those people who don't like this.

Another thing is installation - I did a "full install" of Slack 11, with everything except KDEI. Since I need the 2.6 kernel, why weren't the kernel modules installed during installation, or at least I could have been asked if I wanted them or not.

Once Slackware is up and running, it is great in terms of stability.

--Ian

I think PV realizes you can't possibly idiot-proof an OS and so he doesn't even try. Besides if you do try to idiot-proof your OS you'll only end up with something like Microsoft Windows. Thats an out-right lie. Just look through the Changelog and you'll see Pat thanking people for pointing out a better way to do something, writing a better script or fixing a bug.

The funny thing is, you can tell by reading this review that this guy would really love to be able to say "I use Slackware." But he's not smart enough to get it working and that is really what has him ticked at PV.

The real issue here is, the article got a public appearance. It wouldn't matter what he thought as long has he wasn't famously put on a pedestal for everyone to possibly think that he is correct. If anyone has noticed, the media thrives off of these kinds of things, extreme directions in thoughts and lots of emotion. They seem to think that people love to hear the hardships, brutality, and conspiracy. When someone like this comes along, they always get attention, because it's so "different". People really need to know the opposite, being more positive on things rather than the pessimism. It's important that us slackers report our happiness so that when someone like this that has the ambition, it's not so detrimental to people that would be discouraged by slackware without even trying it.

These sorts of people like whoever wrote the article, need help, not punishment. He needs articles, HOWTO's and testimonials that we have given, and maybe there will be light for him. Point is, we aren't helping slackware from taking a beating as long as we demean this person, so that when 11.2 comes out, he can't do it again.

Love thy enemy and honor his name, his conversion could end up a wealth of support for the slackware community. I challenge anyone who opposes this.

Sometimes the greatest love is to honestly tell him that he is an idiot, then help him gain enlightenment, whatever enlightenment means.

Not to mention that by trying to make it idiot proof, you only drive the evolution of more capable/destructive idiots.

The problem is, he's not *asking* for help. He's stating that Slackware doesn't work the way he wants/expects, therefore it's crap, which is nonsense. If he'd said, say, "Hey, I can't do this", or "I'm having trouble configuring that", then undoubtedly hordes or Slackware users would be more than happy to help, me included. As it is though, all he's doing is giving the impression that he's a moron and isn't worth the effort. The first step to enlightenment is accepting that your wild-assed assumptions might not actually be written in stone after all.

Personally, I find it to be the easiest to install, configure, and use, as I'm sure a lot of other Slack users do. Everything other distro I've used is obfuscating bloat in comparison (debian excluded). One is never sure what is actually going on behind all that fluffy installation gimmickery. I use Slackware because it stays out of my face and doesn't try to "magically" configure my system without telling me what's it's doing.

...

If you see someone crying do you comfort them without them asking? Or if someone is having problems, do you lend a hand only if they request it? I am seeing that the above is a cry for help. I don't see the point in "all he's doing is giving the impression that he's a moron" that statement. It seems too easy of an out. There is nothing wrong with compiling a list of "Here is x, x, x and after that you should have better luck with slackware." outcasting someone and calling them "moron" only separates them from us, when what we really want is people to agree that slackware IS a good distro, and Patrick is NOT what he is saying.

But I can't *see* him, that's the point. He lives on a different continent to me. Nobody can magically see into his house to ascertain if he's having problems installing Slackware.

"At this point I gave up."

Quite. No searching of forums, no posting queries anywhere. How is anyone supposed to help him if he doesn't let them know he needs help. The greatest strength of Linux is the user community, not some distros flashy installer. But I'm not telepathic and I don't know anyone who is, and in a community that communicates via email and the web, if you don't ask, you don't get.