advantages/disadvantages of Slackware?
 

Hi, I am new to slackware, and i was wondering what are the advantages and disadvantages with Slackware 12.0.

I am use to Kubuntu, and am slightly acquainted with Sabayon. The biggest thing that i noticed was that here was no package manager. I know there is slapt-get, and if that is worth it, could anyone point me in the right direction? or any other package manger for that matter.

thanks, Matt

If you learn slack you will know every release thats available. So learn slack. Most answers on lq are answerd by slack users. slack is the most unix like distro, highly configurable, stable, stable, and did mention stable.

billairds

Once you go slack, you never get back... believe me. :-)

As they say...

"If you want to learn RedHat, install Redhat. If you want to learn Linux, install Slackware."

Substitute any distro in the first sentence, and it's still true

Slackware is stable, simple, and comes with a full development tool-chain. It does not automatically check for library dependencies, which can frighten some folks, but it's really not that big of a deal. It's fast, really fast, and that's not just my opinion. It uses simple "System V" style init scripts for it's boot cycle, and that's a plus in my book, too. The disadvantages are that you have to learn to configure quite a lot of things by hand, and you will probably have to learn to build programs from source at some point. Neither of these things are hard, but they can get quite involved. Most people of normal intelligence and diligence will find that after a few weeks, you might wonder what everybody that hates the command line is so squeamish about. That was a terrible sentence, but my point is this; if you want a distro that gives you total responsibility and control, then Slack is it.

The biggest advantage, IMO, is that Slackware stays completely out of your way. Some would see that as a disadvantage, because the system also refuses to hold your hand like Ubuntu and Windows do.
Ah, but there is a package manager. Open your eyes. Try typing 'pkgtool' at the command prompt (as root) and see what comes up on the screen.

If you want more packages than those provided, you can download the source code for the program you want and compile/install it. There are sites like Alien Bob's repository and Slackbuilds.org which can help with some of the extra packages you may need.

If any of this seems "backwards" or "strange" to you (CLI's, manual installing, etc...) then you have chosen the wrong distro.

Advantage: I know it well, can do just about anything I want with it, and prefer it to any other distros I have looked at.

Disadvantage: I'm not much interested by any other distro for my own personal use.

The only disadvantage iv'e found so far is the lack of free draughting programs. This really kills it for me as its a primary application that i use and linux has minimal support for it.

You can do just about anything with this os except draw a decent engineering drawing.

my rant is over.

I have to admit that I am really struggling with the package management/dependencies issue right now. The program I want to use for dvd authoring has a half dozen dependencies needed for it to run, and each one of those has libraries of their own that need to be installed as well. Everytime I think I've got them all and try to compile this thing, there's yet another library it says is missing. I've accomplished so much already in Slackware 12, but right now I'm incredibly frustrated.

Hi,

Your frustration should be towards the author(s) of the program(s) not Slackware. I can see how you would have problems but a lot of people/authors don't follow standards therefore you will always run into problems of this sort when this is the situation.

Hi,

Did you look? A simple search shows a lot of cad/cam available. The Synergy CAD/CAM is just one. It supports solids and seems to be a nice package. Sure, it's not free but would meet cad/cam requirements.

You could use Open Cascade. This is open source program that provides;

If you have ACAD then why not try the wine or even vmware route.

You could use GIMP but I know you want the easy CANNED package way.

BTW, the Slackware/LQ forum has a spell checker. Drafting is the word, not draughting.

The main advantage for me is that Slackware encourages me to learn about GNU/Linux, rather than just use it.

The biggest advantage I feel Slackware provides IS its package management.

Except for a very few exceptions, all Slackware packages are built directly from the source provided by the originating project; even the kernel is plain vanilla. This means if you wish to compile the latest version, you don't need to wait around for distro developers to update their source.

The simplicity of package maintenance means you don't have to jump through a bunch of hoops to create a valid SW package -- or you can just 'make install' the source code... you won't have to worry about the package manager getting confused and either overwriting or removing your custom installation.

This mantra of "dependency resolution" in package management tends to ignore a basic premise of system design: don't make the overall task more difficult in order to make one aspect of it simpler. If you install a reasonably complete set of SW packages, you have resolved 99% of your dependency problems. The time freed from having to concern yourself with whether somebody else did their job of creating packages correctly can then be spent on areas where the software you need isn't provided by a pre-built package.

You may spend some effort chasing down a few dependencies from time-to-time, but this will usually be a lot less effort than messing around with dozens of repositories, handling a package with incomplete or erroneous meta-data, or fixing a system borked by a corrupted package database.

Advantages: It's stable, fast, reliable, easy to use and customize (once you understand it), easy to learn Linux on.

Disadvantages: Linux in general is not for people who give up at the first sight of a slight challenge. Slackware is even more so. It's not hard, but don't get discouraged.

Advantage: If you use Slackware, you're cool

Disadvantage: People'll be hatin' on your coolness.

Seriously though, get slapt-get.

Yeah i was looking into getting slapt-get, but again i have a few other things to work out... like that security thing with USB sticks and Cd roms... but ill get there... and don't think that i am giving up just yet, so far i am enjoying the challenge.

anyway, thanks everyone.

-matt

Matt,

I've been using Slackware for almost a year now. It really grew on me, but it took some time. People around here say that Slackware is simple, but I think that's not quite the right word for it. After all, any task seems simple after you've learned how to do it. It's actually not that simple (at least to a newbie) to do some tasks with Slackware that are rather simple in other distributions. Ubuntu and OpenSUSE, for example, go out of their way to make tasks simple for users.

But what they lack is what Slackware has in abundance -- transparency! Everything that makes Slackware work is exposed and accessible to the user. The result is that, after a little bit of time and some help from this forum and other easily found resources, user tasks become simple because the user can understand exactly what's happening with his or her Slackware system. The transparency leads to simplicity.

It also leads to self-reliance. If I want to try a certain software program, I have the means (at the very least) to make a package from source code and install it with Slackware's package tools. I don't need to wait for a program to show up in some official repository. I do, however, usually read the official change log and apply patches and security updates when they're available from Slackware.com (or one of its mirrors).

The advantage to all of this transparency is that when something goes wrong, it's relatively easy to fix.

The disadvantages of Slackware really depend on your point of view. Doing something like configuring wireless access can be more involved on Slackware than on OpenSUSE or Ubuntu. In Slackware, one needs to use the WPA Supplicant program and edit its configuration file. In OpenSUSE 10.2, I was able to do the whole process through the YAST configuration tool and Knetwork Manager without even looking at a configuration file. However, after reading Alien Bob's guide on WPA, setting up the same thing in Slackware seems...well...simpler -- or at least far more transparent.

Regards,

-Drew

Well I'm certainly not about to give up yet. :)

I've come this far, managed to get a decent looking system running, compiled my own kernel, gotten my fancontrol under control, and lots more accomplished in just a few short weeks. And I'm a Linux newbie as WELL as a Slackware newbie. Quite proud of myself actually.

I'm not frustrated with Slackware fellas... just frustrated. If I can just get beyond this dependencies hurdle and get a decent dvd-authoring program running with subtitle support, I'll be in hog heaven. Perhaps I'll start a new thread and ask for suggestions. I have a sneaking suspicion I'm making this dependencies issue more difficult than it really is.

One thing I'll say about Slackware, and this will sound a bit snobby I guess... but somehow just using it over the last few weeks and learning everything I already have... I feel a bit more intelligent than I did before. And yes, dare I say it, a bit cooler as well. LoL.

I do believe I'm a slacker for life now. I really love it. But how can anyone NOT love a distro that derives its name from the Church of the SubGenius?

Dig

See the sticky thread entitled "12.0 and HAL"

Well, i want to disagree with that becouse its the same as:

If you have a gun, you`re cool

Better is: If you know how to control Slack, you`re cool.

Anyway stay cool :-)

Been there and done that. I can't say that I undedrstood the whole thing, but I took what I did understand and I got it to work. So thank you for the info in the thread.

Anyway, I have a few quick questions.

1) How do i change the computers name ( the user@_____ )?

2) what is the recomended network manager? I have wlassistant and i compiled it, and it seems to work (yay! my first compiled program in Slak!) but i would like to find somthing a little more effective, that is more reliable with my wireless card. I have a linksys Wmp54gs...which from expierence linux doesn't like, but i got that running with Ndiswrapper.

3) how do i edit the "Sudoers" so that my user account can use sudo and not just root? i know i have to use visudo but then i don't know what to do.


Thanks again everyone... LQ has quite a nice community.. :) i like it.

Hey digger95, which dvd authoring package are you trying to install?

Specifically, what do you need to do? I have a handful of packages compiled on Slackware 12 which I use for converting video files to DVD compatible mpeg2 and authoring DVD content.

The biggest two are Mplayer and dvdauthor. There are a couple of others, but those two do most of the work.

YOU are the 'package manager' :)
After a while you'll only use: installpkg, removepkg, upgradepkg (with --upgrade, --reinstall, etc).
No need for auto-deps checking, you'll take care of them and learn exactly what's on your system and become very familiar with it, you are also free to shoot yourself in the foot :P
I guess i agree with previous posts.
(I was so used to debian's apt-get, now i can't imagine going back to it).
Welcome to Slackware.

Edit /etc/HOSTNAME to change it to what you want.
Then, run this:
It will be set automatically from then on from rc.M at boot.

There's not really much in the way of this for stock Slackware.
NetworkManager, as it currently exists, requires quite a bit of voodoo (there's a thread somewhere here on LQ about it, so no need for me to repeat that).
I hear good things about wifi-radar, and there's a build script available for it at SlackBuilds.org, but I've not personally used it. I find that my needs are met by using rc.inet1.conf and friends - it's a bit more work at first, but it does work :-)

The /etc/sudoers file has some decent examples in it that should help you get started. Play around with those, and if you can't figure it out, follow up with a more specific request of exactly what you want to do, and we'll go from there.

okay, i will give a few things a shot.

thanks rworkman.

-matt

I've started using linux 2 years ago with fedora and i learned only fedora and not satisfied with it. but after seeing so many slackers in lq i decided to give it a try and started with slack 11 and now slack 12 and no looking back to other distros. slack has taken my long learning linux with its much unix like interface. the things most impressive in slack is it is highly customisable and stablity. slack rocks like others say install slack if you want to learn linux.

Hi,

I was trying to install ManDVD from the KDE-apps website. It looked good and has a high user rating (92%). Unfortunately it has a LOT of dependencies, and many of those dependencies have many dependencies of their own, and it just got very confusing for me trying to track down and install all the little libraries I needed just to get one thing going. I'm sure it will get easier for me with time, but meanwhile I loaded wine and am using convertxtodvd which I have a license for. I don't like doing that because I wanted to put together an all-linux machine, but at least I have a workable solution while I continue to work on the linux apps.

Dig

it's witchcraft!
 

Hi

It *does not* cause problems at all, so it must be witchcraft!

Advantages: it's stable, it's nice, it doesn't manage dependencies, everything can be compiled from source, everything can be directly configured.

Disadvantages: it's stable (so I have to invent an excuse if I want to make an experiment), it's nice ("it doesn't look like Windows!"), it doesn't manage dependencies, everything can be compiled from source ("who wants to compile from source?"), everything can be directly configured (which can be problematic for some people).

"The plague has come. That man, who usually washes his hands before eating, is still healthy. Therefore HE IS the cause of the plague, and he has poisoned the wells!"

:)

Hi digger95. I looked at ManDVD's website and saw that it requires Transcode. Many of the other dependancies are already installed/easy to install under Slackware 12.0 or available from Alien Bob's repository... BUT TRANSCODE is a REAL BALLBREAKER to install under Slackware, because it has about a million dependancies of it's own, many of which are outdated and won't even compile or have dependancies which won't compile. So don't feel bad that you're finding this a difficult task. It really is.

Since upgrading to Slackware 12.0, I have chosen to avoid transcode and any software which requires it. Devede (while probably not as powerful as ManDVD) has worked for me as far as converting files of various formats to DVD compatible mpeg2 and generating DVD content/iso files. It also has a relatively short dependancy list, many of which are good to have in place anyway.

Good luck! (and sorry to the OP for going OT ;) )

Having read the discussion here, I decided to throw my two cent's worth in. When it comes to advantages, I have to say that being able to do what you want to do without the need of digital training wheels is the thing I like the most about Slackware!

No computer operating system is really fully ready to run out of the box. When DOS and Windoze 3.1 ruled the earth, part of the installation process involved editing the AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS files in order to get DOS operating in an efficient manner. Installing Windoze brought about the need for even more tweaks.

The same goes for all versions of Linux. If this is so, then why not start out with the best, most configurable system in the first place?

I installed numerous Linux distributions for a series of articles I wrote. Everyone of them needed something in the way of tweaking or additions to make them truly useful.

Even after installing all of those systems, up to and including open Solaris (which left me wondering how anyone who makes a UNIX style operating system would still use the antiquated 8+3 DOS file format), I still keep coming back to Slackware.

The only disadvantage I know of to Slackware is it won't run Cool Edit Pro. If I could make that happen, at least as reliably as it does under Windoze, I'd be ecstatic! I would definitely give Windoze the big heave ho! Until that day comes, I unfortunately have to pollute my hard drives with Redmond regurgitation.

Ironically, Windoze Vista didn't run Cool Edit Pro all that well, and completely refused to install a Borland C++ compiler. Go fig!

As far as dependencies, compiling your packages, and so on, frankly, I like the idea that I can do an incremental upgrade on my system as new stuff becomes available. Both my laptops are running kernel version 2.6.22.10, and I have updated a few other packages.

However, I must confess that at times, it becomes unnerving searching hither and yon for source code, then getting it only to find out that it's three years old, and my version of GCC, or perl, or whatnot won't allow successful compilation. Frankly, that can be a real pain in the ass.

Currently, I am trying to get any of a number of DVD rippers/copiers to function. Just getting transcode to function called for all kinds of separate libraries and other dependent files. I spent almost four hours at it yesterday. Still, I have yet to have a functional DVD ripper.

I can't blame Slackware for that. I can only blame sloppy programmers. Unfortunately, the world of open source invites all to the table: the meticulous and the slovenly. This is one of the things that we all must accept.

Still, given all the alternatives, Slackware still far surpasses every other Linux distribution I have tried. I am as convinced of that as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow.

I don't get how being a Slack-head makes me especially cool..but hey, if so, that's just one more cool thing about me. hehehe!

Blessed be!
Pappy

The basic slack install is indeed stable, because slack doesn't use alpha versions in its release, but after that, it is up to you. If you install a development kernel or a alpha version of gnome, kde or dbus there's no telling how (un)stable your system will be.
This statement is valid for speed as well, the standard slackware installation is lightning fast, but if you install all the fancy *bling* (read: compiz ;)) it will be just as slow as let's say fedora. On the other side it possible to take ubuntu and slim it down to a very fast system.

There is also another side to not having a package manager, no automatic patches or security updates! This is an important downside, because it takes a lot of time to track down and apply all patches for every piece of software installed on your system.

Besides from that, slackware is the most versatile distro out there, I used it for 2 years (8.1, 9.1 and 10) and was quite happy about it. Slackware is absolutely the purest linux, but I exchanged it for debian, which has in my opinion all the upsides of slackware plus the package manager.

Now I use ubuntu because I simply no longer have enough time to spend on maintaining my system, but I still like like slackware.

I hear that a lot, but I don't understand it. Maintaining the system ? I do system maintenance about once a month and it takes only about 1 hr.

Not if you want your security updates and patches to be installed. Often I quickly need to install a piece of software and don't have the time to search for all the dependencies and compile the sources. The fact is that I no longer use slack because those things take too much time.

Of course, if you never install updates and you have a stable set of tools, so you don't often have to install new software, it is possible that maintaining your system won't take much time.

so far i have enjoyed my experience on Slack 12.

I have sucessfully installed Beryl (because i like it) and Wifi-radar and Wlassistant.

I am not quite sure i would be able to maintain my system, because i am a linux noob.

anyone have any ideas to point me in the direction?

oh and, are there any package managers that Slack could use? I know Slapt-get.. but is there anything else?


anyway, thank you all.

matt

If I would put some Linux on my computer it would be Slackware.

Slackware teached a lot about Linux to me... I currently run solely OpenBSD on my computers but I'm thinking about putting Slackware to my desktop. The lack of 3D-acceleration support is not a good think if your thinking about developing OpenGL programs :)

after you fix it, it just works
 

I am a new slackware user, and linux user in general, and I chose slackware because:

1. I am Bob Dobbs.
2. I can tell my wife I slacked off all day, and she can't get mad.
3. I figured that, since slackware doesn't hold your hand, that the level of linux experience would be higher in its user base, and therefore, the advice I receive in the slackware forums is likely to be better informed than any advice I would receive in the ubuntu forums from a three day ubuntu user who still tells me to restart.

rkelsen,

Thanks for the heads-up about DeVeDe! I will certainly look into it. I'm using convertxtodvd under wine right now so I can at least get my work done while I put together a native-Linux solution. I don't like running Windows apps on my nice new Slackware install but if it preserves my sanity AND keeps me from chucking the whole lot out the window, then I feel it's a good thing. And I did pay 40 bucks for the license so I might as well use it if I can.

It is also a huge relief to hear that even yourself (a savvy Slackware user) gets frustrated with dependencies from time to time. It makes me feel not so much like an idiot. So thanks for that.

In response to the original question though... Slackware really IS a lot to handle for folks like me who are new to Linux altogether. But to be honest, once I got to a certain point it just kinda got under my skin and I couldn't give it up. So now I'm forced to learn as I go. The advantages of Slackware far outweigh the disadvantages.

Dig

While being OT, DRI support under OpenBSD is actually being worked on.

You can use Slackpkg or Slapt-get to install security updates,etc. I use Slackpkg. Check the change log on the Slackware site every now & then, then do:

# slackpkg update
# slackpkg upgrade-all

Easy as that.

The greatest disadvantage to Slackware is the people who populate its forum.

Blessed be!
Pappy

Huh? Such as who? Don't be shy - name them.

I don't see what his problem is. He's had a few heated arguments with a few members and now he hates everyone who populates this forum. I was going to try to say 'calm down man', but I don't think it'll work.

I'm new to salckware but not to unix.

The advantage I see is that is is just a unix system.

With other distros, You get megabytes of scripts providing everything other distros think you will need, and they are always wrong about that. Then you get regular (poorly tested) updates which can and have screwed up my box more than once. /usr/bin/vi is a symlink to /etc/vim-alternatives/something which eventually tries to run /usr/bin/Vim-iMproved :-\. Red Hat patches as it sees fit and documents these poorly. 15 scripts are run starting X with variables passed from one to the other, so it's a nightmare to follow.

Slackware has less of this, and expects you to be a little knowledgeable or clever. No package management, but 'cat /usr/lib/pkgconfig/sendmail*' gives you the dependencies of sendmail. 'grep spoof.h /var/log/packages/*' tells you which package installed spoof.h, etc. The result is, the system you set up lasts longer, causes less hassle. Which is just as well, because you won't feel like setting it up very often.

The advantages of Slackware for me are many and varied.

Flexibility: I've tailored it for use in embedded digital signage applications, forum servers, weather image servers, development platforms, prototyping systems, and hobby platforms using an amazingly diverse array of hardware.

Stability: this one is well-documented, I mention it only because I am so appreciative and impressed by the approach and attention to detail that Patrick and the rest of the team take on the issue.

Familiarity: I'm intimately familiar with and quite fond of the SVR4 directory structure, shells, and tools that are employed in the distribution. Though it is evolving, so am I (I hope).

I'm using Ubuntu to get my wife familiar with *nix, not so much to wean her from Windows but because she wants to use some of the tools she sees me using and has expressed an interest.

I won't subject her to the deep end of the pool until she has a better handle on the whole picture. I don't see that as an advantage for Ubuntu, its just another tool, good at what it does, as is Slackware.

Thing is, I don't even mind setting it up most of the time.

I've had great luck with Slackware setups. I've run it on three different laptops and I don't even know how many desktops, and it remains simple and easy and intuitive to install, and worlds better at hardware support than any version of Windows I've set up.

Most of the time if something's hosed it's my own damned fault, not Slackware's. Like several times when I partitioned things in a stupid way, or when I've forgotten how to do something and end up telling it to do something wrong.

Most of the trauma that comes from setups for me is tweaking KDE to behave the way I like it, and installing the apps I prefer to have on-hand, again not normally something I can blame on Slackware. I'd be doing that on any distro.

One possible disadvantage
 

I've heard from someone that Slackware has one fault he's only seen otherwise in Debian: Cannot have a larger than 500GB root partition.

I told the guy "Why not just make a small "root" and leave the rest as "home" or even make a "data" partition?"

Works for me!

Dave

Found this old post of mine when I was doing a forum search and wanted to report that after several months I now consider Slackware's package management to be one of it's strong points. Using mainly slackbuilds and src2pkg, package management in Slackware really is quite nifty. I love knowing exactly what files are being installed and where, and when I uninstall a package I know exactly what is being removed. The other day I was helping a friend with Ubuntu and when he was updating his system it just seemed like there was no control over what was being installed. Man there were files flying all over the place. God only knows what all got installed. :(

Dig

I've never ever tried any other distro but Slackware. And after these words, I know what exactly I will not ever try :)

It's still possible to determine exactly what is being installed on your system using Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, or any other distro. And it's really not that difficult either (you can always make your own packages, although it may not be as friendly as in Slackware). It just isn't as transparent as on Slackware. Well, it is -- but it isn't. It's hard to explain. Slackware isn't really much more "open" than other distros, it just forces you to see everything. Other distros allow the same openness, but they provide other tools that don't show you everything. You can use Debian or Ubuntu while compiling all of your programs from source -- but it negates the whole point of using a Debian-based distro with its lovely apt-get and dependency-resolving goodness. It seems like because the other distros don't absolutely force you to pay attention to what you install, people assume you can't pay attention. This is false.

However, using Synaptic in Ubuntu (for which there is no true equivalent in Slackware) makes me a little nervous seeing all of those packages install without me knowing exactly what's happening (one badly created package and BAM! SYSTEM DOWN!). Basically, you are using the full ability of these other distros when you don't have to, and are blaming their utilities for unstable (or closed, opaque) systems, just because there isn't an equivalent in Slackware.

iiv, you should never completely judge a distro based on other people's words. If I did that, then I never would have installed the 'aging dinosaur' I currently use (Slackware). Ubuntu is a great distro, and sometimes when I encounter a program with 3 million dependencies, I secretly wish for apt-get. But then I regain my senses and remember that I compile (almost) everything from source just so I know exactly what's going on my system (paranoid much?). I also love Slackware's simplicity and stability (though I have never used Ubuntu or OpenSUSE long enough to experience a crash). Hence I use Slackware -- but I would be pretty happy using other distros as well. Try it out for yourself in a VM or on a separate partition or different PC. It's not THAT bad, it's just not for me.

I don't know about that. One thing I don't like about RedHat and Debian based distros is the fact that they use binary package databases. As someone who is used to Slackware, this is something I find to be very limiting. For starters, you can't use standard GNU tools to explore the database. By comparison, Slackware's package "database" (found under /var/log/packages) is 100% compatible with standard GNU tools. Wanna know what package "/usr/bin/somecommand" is from? Simply:

grep -r "usr/bin/somecommand" /var/log/packages

It really is as easy as that. You can't do that with Debian or RedHat without learning the intricacies of their own packaging tools.

Slackware's honesty and openness in this regard is just something else I like about it.