programmer wanted.
 

Ok. First Morpheus, then napster and finaly Audio Galaxy. Kazaa is next. Thos ciberphobics want to shut down kazaa also. This time is that britney, she may be sexy, but she is blond and by definition brainless. I've had an Idea. a peer to peer that cannot be stopped. I'm not a good programmer but I have the Idea. I need a good C/C++ programmer with knowdlege about networking and p2p technology. Also a good GUI programmer and someone able to coordinate a development (I'm not sure If I can do it). And someone with extense knowdlege on databases.

I know this may not be the right place but it's the only place I can go to.

if you are intrested post a reply here or send me an email to 333101@personal.net.py

thanks.
:Pengy:

First, tell me you idea.

you know Ciccio, I would join your company with great pleasure .... but I don't have enough programming knowledge, only thing I can do is creating a homepage for the project :)
You know guys I have another idea, everybody knows that gtk-gnutella is the only client for linux such as kazaa for winbloze? but why gtk-gnutella programmers cannot make the program to connect to KAZAA or IMESH networks and to share files with the world but just under Linux, because files you can download with gtk is miserable comparing to winbloze clients.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

gnutella isn't the only p2p software for linux. You also have edonkey for linux.

He, does any body know that the deal is with kazaa for linux. Some sources say there is no such thing while other say it existed.

personally I couldn't find a kazaa or a client that would connect to kazaa's network for Linux.

Ok, here is what I think: all the p2p software is based on a client server model, where a lot of clients connect to a same server o servers and they do the searching and then establish the connections. Now, it's pretty easy to stop them, just block the server and it's done. Now, if instead of server and a lot of clients we have a lot of serverswith a lot of clients it would be almost impossible to stop. so far I've encountered two problems here. One... how can we search for other clients if we have no connection in common. well just using a scanner, check all ips for a specific open port. when you find it just query if it is used by that p2p api. Now, how to search was another problem... so I thought that if all connected users keep a database of other user's status and shared files we would solve the problem. Since that kind of data is usually very small it wouldn't be a big problem to share (specially for broad band users, like DSL or LAN).

Now, I'm not a good programmer and I certainly don't know how hard would be to do such a software. but I know that in theory it's possible.

I appreciate our enthusiasm and I certainly appreciate your offer. Though it's not my comany, I just had an Idea that I think that is good and that would stop once and for all those damned cybephobics.

read this and you will see why I want to do this software: http://www.hackology.com/programs/mbhttpbf/riaa.shtml

This Idea came up to me when I was using MSN, chatting with a friend. we were talking about that article and I thought that it could e a good Idea to make it stop.

technology is the future. unless some idiot actually thinks that fox's series Dark Angel could happen, we all know that technology is the future. when the first trains appeard the said it was demonic because it traveed at 30 kph. now a ferrari goes 350 kph. let's see... perhaps now they think that it is some sort of trend and that will eventually go away, perhaps they are right... ut what sill come next??? software that allow to directly download the music from it's artist personal database???

Technology can't be stopped, not now, not with powerfull enterprises such as HP invent or microsoft having all the power. Not with all those freacks and geeks with all that power. just with a dial up they can do whatever they want. Just a single man can create an OS that would make history (I'm talking about Torvalds).

Now, I could say a lot more about these things, I could write much more about open source and how they are trying to restric us. But I won't, because it's not what this forum is about.

So. now you know my idea, now you can decide whether you want to help me or not.

I don't want to stop you, but you're idea is not half as new as you think. Dezentralized P2P nets are already used for several well knows projects, e.g. gnutella, morpheus.

yeah, there is a lot of 100% decentralized software around now. if you're interested on reading up on it, i'd strognly recommend Andy Oram's book http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/peertopeer/ The ONLY oreilly book i've ever ever read for fun...

If you want 100% decentralized, and hard to track p2p try Freenet
Be warned though some of the content is down right disturbing and/or sick.

giFT used to be able to connect to the Fasttrack network which is used by Kazaa. But since they modified the network quite a while ago giFT decided to continue on it's own protocol.
There have been various other people who have tried to make clients for the Fasttrack network but I haven't found any successfull ones so far.
These people claim to have reverse engineered the whole thing and claim to be developing a client:
http://fileblitz.net/rapidroad/home.php
But others say it's all a hoax, and since they haven't made anything public yet they don't sound convincing.

Ciccio, you want to program somthing usefull? Why don't you setup a project to create a Fasttrack client for linux?

I know nothing about networking, but I could try to create a GUI.
Mik, so if I get it right, the protocall fasttrack uses is not open. So any one wanting to create a client will have to do what samba did.

schatoor. Because you can't find any usefull software for linux in fasttrack. Kazaa was my only source of software for windows... now I'm looking for some Linux software but kazaa has nothing. Besides... if it was so easy to create such a software don't you think that there would be more clients for linux???

I don't know the protocol fasttrack uses, I fear that perhaps there is something that is uncompatible with linux and that is the reason why there are not clients.

schatoor... what did samba do?. Kazaa doesn't seem the closed type... in fact they are the number one source of home-use pirate software. I've downloaded over 30GB in serial# protected software... with the serials. And since napster and audio galaxy were shut down, it became the number one source of MP3. Now, if they were pro 'closed source' (didn't know how to say it... ;)) don't you think they'll avoid at least the sharing of software???

:Pengy:

" Because you can't find any usefull software for linux in fasttrack" ,
as you stated your self, kazaa is mostly usefull (atleast to me) for mp3's and movies. Those are OS independent. BTW, you can get most linux software for the net for free and leagaly.

"if it was so easy to create such a software don't you think that there would be more clients for linux???"

Got me there, good point. ;)

"schatoor... what did samba do?"
Samba is software that lets a linux machine on a network pretent it's a windows machine so you can share files with computers running windows and more stuff like that.
The reason I stated that was because of the way samba was created. The developers of samba woulden't get any support form M$ (suprise !!! ) so they listend very closely on how windows machines communicated. If you will, they decoded the lanuage windows speeks in. We kind of have to do the same thing don't we.

Cheers, schatoor

What's wrong with using Limewire? < www.limewire.com >

*COUGH* that's a joke i hope.... nasty nasty nasty.

Ok, but since I couldnt get mi squid script to work I can't limti KAzaa's bancdwidth usage so when I'm downloading with kazaa I can'0t download even a copy of the new samba source. I know samba, I use it a lot, I just didn't know the history... whough I'm not surprised by M$'s attitude.

I have a stetoscope... perhaps if I put in in my modem I'll be able to listen how kazaa connects ;). Anyway, I figured that it would be easyer to create a whole protocol than to revese engineer fasttrack.

I feel a really cheesy song coming on ...

"No-one ever said it was gonna be eezeaah .... " :o

Writing software isn't easy for most people. But that ever stopped the remaining few. Asking Sharman (whatever) Networks about the protocol might be an idea first. If not, or they present you with a "cease and desist" notice, set about reverse engineering - look up the information from Samba about how they debugged packets from Windows boxes. And release on GPL.

Easy. :D

It would be an interesting project, that's for sure. I'l look in to it.
The only things is, I don't know whare to start. Somehow I have got to monitor what kazaa does. But how?

Ok... first of all send a mail to sharman asking them about the protocol... I doubt they'll release that.

There are a few (lot) papers on reverse engineering... but none of them about how to do it on a protocol. I'll check samba.org to see if they have something (since it's open source I think they'll have no problem publishing the procedure they've used.. right?)

It would be an intresting piece of software... but I'm not sure how many users will actually use it. It's a big security hole on a firewall and it's a bandwidth eater.... unless you can get squid to work (which I didn't).

Have fun :Pengy:

Readers of this thread should probably read this : http://slashdot.org/articles/01/09/19/0013235.shtml

But, ... now I don't get it. Didn't MiK say giFT didn't support fasttrack any more?

Yes .... I forgot about that and upon further inspection it seems that he is in fact correct .... http://gift.sourceforge.net/docs.php....html#tth_sEc5

*sigh* It's times like this I consider changing my screenname....

Okey, now for a very practical question, how can I mail sharman? I don't know his email addres. I looked on google, but coulden't find it. There is no sharman website yet (try "www.sharman.com") and kazaa's site wasn't much help either.

yes... that would have been too easy. you see... from contac in kazaa's site I couldn't actually contact anybody. there is actually no mail address in that page. So... how do you get in touch with them???

Now...
here they say that they stopped using fasttrack because they change the encription... Now... it isn't easy to break or reverse engineer an encription. There are not many coices... We could get in touch with sharman networks and ask them about the protocol, we could get in touch with fasttrack and ask THEM about it... we could develop a full new code (not very likeley)... or we could run our software on a known and safe protocol (such as FTP or even HTTPS).

I think we should try first with asking them for it... but if that doesn't work... well... then just stay away from them and take our own path or help giFT developers...

have anyone entered fasttrack's webpage? because if you do I think that there is much info, since I'm not a programmer I didn't get all of it... but I think a skilled programmer could understand everythin easyly...

anyway... there is a contact address info@fasttrack.net I think we are approaching this thing from the wrong side... We are going to the client when we should go directly to the source.

I'll read the site and then come back again... Still, since my english isn't that good and my programming skills are worse I think I'll need some help to write an email asking for free assistance (since we are open source)

Ciccio,

That site is unrelated....

>>FastTrack shows when and how to trade mutual funds and popular stocks for steady, long-term gains year after year. . .

they're a wall-street type place with some crap to sling .... if we can't get info from kazza or the like, perhaps we should look into trying to create a boycott of sorts ... or make a freakin' cool ass client for windows & linux that kicks kazza's ass using giFT. File-sharing is about the people, not the protocol. I have experiance in win32 programming if anyone is intrested in something like that.

Yes... i see.
But... how can you do that... kazaa is very popular because of the people who uses it... p2p networks aren't built on a day.

I tried www.kazaalite.com but there is no contact link on there... so i think that my original Idea stands. Create a whole new software... perhaps we could use giFT network (with their permission, of course). The thin here is that we should kick kazaa's ass. and that is not easy.

permission? it's [giFT] GPL ain't it? the protocol doesn't really matter, except in the best-case scenerio and FastTrack is let open, it's just a matter of providing a more user-friendly, stable, better marketed prog than Kazza ... dosen't really sound too hard ;)

Ok... I know you are kidding (I hope you are actually) but i'm gona think loud if that's OK.

[think loud]
It may be GPL, and it's open source (obviously). Still, I've always sustained that an ethical license was applied to every source ever released even though it's not written. This ethical license says pretty much that you can use pieces of the source (such as the conection engine or the search engine) but if you want to use the whole code you should let the author know and you should place his name in the 'about'. Now, this is just for being polite to the creator and because in encourages people to share things (If i know my name is going to appear anyway I would share more sources). Now, I'm not a lawyer, nor i am a skilled programmer, but I know what means to develop a software and I know that many people aren't willing to share their work because it took them so long to create it. I think that's crap and that's Windows freaking philosophy.

Now, I've read the GPL and I think there is no legal restriction for using or modifying the source as long as we say it's their source and not of our own. However Kazaa isn't released under GPL and that would make it even more hard to connect to their network.

Perhaps lackluster is right... and it's pointless to try and connect to kazaa when mos linux users use giFT for file Sharing... All we need is a viable windows client adn giFT network could grow even bigger than napster was in it's golden... months.

I think that win32 would be something usefull for us... since we are willing to create a win32 software. I think and I state that this is the time of stop talking and start acting.

[/thinking loud] ;)

now... I'm recruiting programmers now. I'm registering free domains (www.portland.co.uk it's kind of cool place for websites) with a www.cjb.net subdomain redirection... I'll post them here ASAP.

Also a skilled webmaster would be very usefull (webmaster == web designer + web programmer)

I think that the win32 client as well as Linux client should be fully programmed in C++ since we will be managing objects after all... I'm not a C/C++ programmer so I don't know much about what language is better.

My e-mail (as I said earlyer in this thread) is 333101@personal.net.py

I'm willing to get your mails. please add something in the subject regarding this forum because I get too many mails and I usually delete them withou reading (unless the subject seems important or is from a known person)


Penguin, you'll rule the world not long from now! and we'll be the power behind the throne! mbwahahahah

:Pengy:

giFT is seperated in two parts, one daemon which handles the whole protocol and all the physical file sharing. And a GUI which simply connects to the daemon and displays the status and sends new requests.

Both the daemon and several versions of the GUI are available for windows. I suggest you have a look at giFT and try it out. If giFT wants to become popular all it would need is marketing tactics and maybe a better very userfriendly GUI for the windows users. And the fact that someone has to get it from CVS and compile it themselves isn't very attractive to the average windows user.

Well then ... the birth of another file-sharing client :). If nobody else steps up to the plate, I suppose I'll do the windows coding ... if that's cool. As for compiling from CVS, what's to stop us from compiling a binary and releasing it with the file-sharing client? BTW, is the windows daemon implemented as a windows program without any windows or is it more like a TSR? It's probably in giFT's documentation, I was just curious because windows doesn't really have daemons like linux .... sometimes they're called "services" :rolleyes:

But is giFT's network as large as fasttracks? I mean can I download as much as with kazaa. I think people are first of all atracketed to networks that have the most to offer. Beating kazaa by having more stuff to dowload is going to be hard.
So my point is, you can make a super friendly,stable, ect app, but if you can't do shit with it, no body will want it.
Now I really sugest cracking FT protocall. I have searched the web and giFT uses somthing called openFT. As the name sugests, it open and we can probebly learn alot from it.
Any thoughts, comments?

"I suppose I'll do the windows coding ... if that's cool"

trust me, it's not. I have done it and the documentation is poor.

it is not! if you have the propper tools like Visual Studio 6.0(+) with MSDN librabies you have all the doc you'll need.

In fasttrack's homepage, in the download section, there are a few dll's and ocx... perhaps studying them could give us some idea about how it works... Can anyone do that?

Thanz

:Pengy:

I have all the microsoft software ... even the .NET bs. Documentation is actually quite clear and easy to follow on msdn.microsoft.com.

>>So my point is, you can make a super friendly,stable, ect app, but if you can't do shit with it, no body will want it.
Now I really sugest cracking FT protocall. I have searched the web and giFT uses somthing called openFT. As the name sugests, it open and we can probebly learn alot from it.
Any thoughts, comments?

Learn alot about what? openFT? I hope you don't mean FastTrack. On giFT's FAQ they're talking about they split off because FastTrack did some encryption dealy. Now they're two sepearte entitiys. So what is openFT going to teach anyone about FastTrack?

Agreed that without marketing and alot of crap to download nobody will use the app, but I think it's a more realistic and legally safer route than trying to crack the FastTrack code. Besides, what if you crack the code and they re-write it? Are you going to re-crack the code? What if they change again?

>>Agreed that without marketing and alot of crap to download nobody will use the app, but I think it's a more realistic and legally safer route than trying to crack the FastTrack code. Besides, what if you crack the code and they re-write it? Are you going to re-crack the code? What if they change again?


I agree, that is not an option... we could use giFT instead of KAZAA and try to make it grow. Anyway... perhaps it's not illegal to crack the protocol... think... samba did the same to MICROSOFT!!! I think we will have grounds to avoid any legal matter. Perhaps a lawyer could help us... but since there is no international regulation it's up to each country. Andd I think that kazaa isn't that powerfull. Now... we could try to reverse engineer the fasttrack... if they change the encription they should release a whole new software or a patch... anyway, the old protocol should still work untill they are certain that everyone has changed to the new version... and that would give us time to crack it again. Kind of a cold war :P

Now... I'm going to watch some tv awaiting for your ideas.

Have a good time writing... you should practice your typing... it makes linux usage a lot easyer...

:Pengy:

"I have all the microsoft software ... even the .NET bs. Documentation is actually quite clear and easy to follow on msdn.microsoft.com."
Oh, they must of improved it. Or I was being stupid again. I had some bad experiances.

"So what is openFT going to teach anyone about FastTrack?"
I was hoping that FastTracks protocall haden't changed that much. That all that did was add some encription instaid of chaging the protocall its self.

"Besides, what if you crack the code and they re-write it? Are you going to re-crack the code? What if they change again?"
Ciccio made a good point in saying that they can't just change the protocall. It would also effect there own network.

But what ever you guy's decide, it's going to be a fun project to work on. So if I can be of assistance, count me in. I can program a bit in c++ and I have some experiance working with ms visual studio. (I have ms visual c++ 6.0)
I put a bit of my work on the net. It's at chatoor.vvtp.tudelft.nl . But is't poorly written but i'm improving it. It kind of an calculator but i'm hoping to develop it in to a computer algebra system.

>>But what ever you guy's decide, it's going to be a fun project to work on.

I concur.

Maybe it would be best to develop a client based on giFT while simultaneously trying to crack FastTrack. At least that way, if one fails, the other one can live on .... but I'll help out on this in any way possible, whatever the decsision may be.

"I concur"
Sorry, my englisch is not as good as you guy's. What does that mean? Something like I agree?

>>Maybe it would be best to develop a client based on giFT while simultaneously trying to crack FastTrack. At least that way, if one fails, the other one can live on .... but I'll help out on this in any way possible, whatever the decsision may be.

Agree. and if we succeed to crack fasttrack we can add the protocol to the giFT client and have acess to both networks (then we can make giFT grow faster.

I'm sure It'll be a fun project... In fact I'm eager to do it just for the experience... if some good software comes out, better!!!

Seriously, typing.:Pengy:

It's a posh word for "agree".

Oh, ... . What's a nother word I can add to my vocabulary.

Yes, it seems like a good plan. Count me in.

Here's an uplifting link : http://www.limewire.org/ They're open source which means that we can right off the bat connect to the gnutella network :) (don't know if giFT already does this).

"posh" is another word you can add to your vocab, schatoor. I just added it to mine

off topic, but how do you say "posh" in the states?

We don't. "Fancy" I guess comes closest. Imagine some drunk redneck saying "Them some fancy words you got goin' there"

Ok... I'm italian... so english is kind of my second language. so... this slang talk is driving me crazy... I try to understand words by the context... for example... after that dictionary quote (BTW.. instead of code you could hve used quote) the word posh could only mean one thing (fancy is the closest english word I can think of... perthaps because lackluster did).

Abour limewire... I think it sucks... (excuse my french) but it's not a good software. It would be intresting to use that network for it is already an established network... then all we'll have to do would be creating a good enough linux client (and a windoze version). we could also try to connect to the giFT network and we would increase pur users considerably... don't know if taht is possible... but... it doesn't harm to dream!! ;)

Have fun.
:Pengy:

Well, let's end this thread then. Should we say whoever's intrested should email their address to you, Ciccio, and we start communicating that way?

yes, combining as many networks as possible is a good idea here .... if feasible.

Ok, again (and last) MY e-mail is 333101@personal.net.py and PLEASE write something in the subject regarding this thread.

Live the Life :Pengy: