well, that's true. After a while, when the project is big and full of headers files, it's hard to keep on tracks. But Dev-C++ does a good job too though ;)

Best of luck with that game engine tchernobog! An easy to use game engine will be awsome! There are a lot of gamers out there who would like to try making games, but are scared of all the coding (me for example lol!). This could help encourage a lot of people to get into Linux game dev.

(Also, this is the 51st post in my thread! That's awsome! 51 posts the thread I started!)

You know I support your idea but why not just expand porting? I mean the M$ games are big cause they cost $50. If you want to rival that then you would spend ages in room looking at a screen. And for what? I dont know about you but "I'm helping the Linux idea" is not motivation for me. But if you want to do it, go ahead (maybe I'll download :).)

Make free/cheaper for Linux and very expensive for Windows :)

Bottom line... We'll need a killer game for the Linux Platform only. Maybe that way, major developers would look forward into supporting Linux :D

If this were to work Thetargos, the game would have to be retail (which i believe you meant), otherwise what benifits would developers see in porting their games? If ten thousand people play a free game, that doesn't really show the profitability of releasing on the linux platform.

Maybe release for cheap (free even?) linux and then release a 'demo' for windows. When you have millions of rabid window fans begging for the full game, THEN the publishers will be knocking down your doors to publish!

Also on another note, Any 'killer game' released for linux, will no doubt be modable to an unbelievable extent! Which would really up the replay value and the popularity.

And there's another idea to maybe kick start developers/publishers paying attention to the linux community. Create a mod for unreal 2003, quake 3 etc. great enough to go retail. Look at counterstrike! started out as a simple mod and now it's one of the most popular games period. I'm sure the linux community could come up with some unbelievabely original gameplay ideas (better than just 5 minutes of team vs team). I'm sure everyone in this forum has some amazing ideas. I know i sure do! Anyone feel free to post your ideas i'd love to here them!

That was what I meant, sorry for not stating explicitly the fact that this app shoud be retail (the man's gotta eat, right?)

just one thing... how can it become a killer game if it doesn't support the platform most users use at home? :rolleyes:



..but we could try to make a very very cool game though. Like tuxracer for example. But is has to be pretty good. Compare tuxracer 0.61, and the tuxracer 1.1 demo, and you know the difference between an hobby project and an commercial release ;) For example, the commercial tuxracer has a nice options menu. People care about those things imho, and developers often don't.

in our case, the hobby project needs to be that good! ..and you don't need to deserve money for it directly. If you want the quick money, start working for a commercial company ;) ...but think once about a job-application, where you could tell that you're the author of that particular successful free killer app/game ;) ...and the company can even look at the source-code to evaluate your work. :)

hint: put your project at your resume :D :p

some good news:

:cool:

wow Megaman X you made it to Guru!! very nice!!

Abe_the_Man - you have a great idea about a UT2003 mod.

I have been wary of committing but this is getting tempting - I am very proficient in graphic design - on the 3D end - I did some 3D in college but it was only the early stages of 3D on Studio Max - with some tips on the software useage [getting Maya on Linux shortly] It would speed up my learning curve - I already understand most of the 3D ideology from college.

PLUS - I have been looking into Cluster Architecture for massive 3D rendering capabilities. Got a good book on it. However it needs someone with strong C programming. Another friend is interested. This project would be erally interesting to tie into all this. It shold not be too hard to complete and it would allow us to render high quality quiclky.

Genesee - kewl about UT2004.

Excelent idea Abe,
I think that the Unreal engine is a great place to start. I have ideas and alot of time on my hands. One of the best places to adv/release the mod would be here http://www.ut2003files.com/ lets face it...everyone has to go somewhere to get maps mods yada yada yada...

Any help on the C programming fofr Cluster Application is mroe than welcomed - I guess this did not shine thru on my first post. One of my friends is into 3D design and know abit of C. Anyone who is up to it is more than welcome to help out if they want.

I'd love to, as soon as I learn more C :D. Currently I'm struggling to fully understand the custom header files and MACRO definitions.

Thanks man. Yesterday it was a bit of challenge when I reached 998 posts.. I tried to find a thread where I knew the answer but I could not. I mean, I don't like to pot just for posting, so I needed to find a thread where I could help. The cool thing is, when you hit 1000 post your can choose between LQ Addicted or Guru. Cool function in this forum :). Thanks again man.

By the way, a cool way to learn how to make games, is doing a text game. Sounds simple and silly, but it helps you a lot getting the hang of the language you've chosen to program with. I started myself with QBasic and Win3.1. Then I moved to other languages (not that I know many or am good at one... I suck at it, but I love programming). It took me a long, long time to make a RPG in text mode. Like "You found a chest, open it?Y/N". If you say Y, then "You've found a key". Then, you must have an inventory where this key is meant to be kept. (variables / arrays). It gets really dang complex even with no graphics at all. The best is, the concept is always the same, at any language, with any library and 2D/3D. I have never ever succeeded making a game, not even a simple one. At least, not a complete game. But I'm still trying :). PyOpenGL and Pygame seems really nice for newcomers, plus python is a great portable language.

A piece of advice though. Notice that sometimes, Linux programmers are not so organized (hold, I will explain). Have anyone ever looked how many different text editors we have?. And not so many video players to choose from?. This happens because everybody wants to write something from the beginning, from grounds up, instead of use what was already made. If I'd make a video player, I'd take mplayer or xine and write it from there, improving what I think would be nice to improve. That's the beauty of OpenSource, improve what has been made, not re-inventing the wheel. If you are going to write a Mario like game with Pygame, pickup an example from pygame's homepage and improve it, change the code, make it better as you can, instead of write something totally new. If after a while you think your engine rocks, then make it public. If you don't think it's good, but only "one more engine" (read, one more text editor), join a project :) Your skills will be certainly needed ;)

yeah I remember when I was about 14 on my speccy 128K graphing up pixels to make graphics with a techie friend. He was making a game - and he made ones similiar to the one you describes - choose yout own adventure type thing. We had to graph out each pixel! man we've come a long way.

I just downloaded a copy of Blender 3D for Linux and I must say it ROCKS, although the base package is lightweight (a tarball no bigger than 2.1 Mb), it is quite extensible trhough Plugins and stuff... (Damn! I wish I knew some 3D-Studio, but I cannot be an all-knowing guy, now can I?)

www.blender3d.org

ever tried Maya for linux ??

Never got to install it... I've tried to, but couldn't get past the key check.

hmm. I will check into it. Pardon the pun.

NP...

Haven't you felt some times that you are... limited that you may want to do so much more, but you simply... can't give that 1000% you need to be able to do those things...

I say this rant because I wish I had the capacity/time to learn so many things! I mean I have already spent 6 years in medical school, I'm in my way of learning a programming language (that may be could turn into others) and I'd like to have the time to develop my artistic skills (not that I have many :D)... I just feel I can't render all I'd like hehe :)

ive had an idea for alot of time for a game, but i have lotsa ideas (hey, 12-year olds have good imagination ;)). my idea for this game though was to make some kind of game that melded all the genres together. grand theft auto mixed shooters with driving, and look how successful it is! btw, anyone know a gta-like game for linux? ;)

I know the Renaissance man gets torn apart. I feel the same way there is just so much I want to do but so little time.

Regarding Maya PLE, I cannot download it (I erased the file I once had) according to Alias' page the download will be available starting October 15th.

i need to learn some c++. then ill be programming away all day (that i dont have to go to skool) listening to linkin park. so far all the games ive done have been done in tcl/tk. which isnt very efficent.

Hey all,

I'm new here. This is my first post. Been lurking for a while and have enjoyed watching this thread progress. I have been dabbling in 3D programming for about a year or so. I was previously programming strictly on winblows . I decided the project I was working on -- basically an engine -- would eventually benefit from being open source. So I switched platforms to Linux and have been going through the gruelling process of porting it. Hopefully it'll be ready for the community's scrutiny in a few months.

I had never programmed in Linux before now, but one thing I noticed is that the environment forces you to be a better programmer. So all of you that are interested in starting to program and are going to do it on this platform have a heads up on everyone else. Visual Studio does a lot of things for you -- a lot of things a decent programmer should do him(her)self. (IE linking libraries and other compile time stuff). Things that ultimately give you better control over your program's functionality.

Luckily I chose OpenGL as API of choice. Direct3D, in my experience, is a complete nightmare to learn. OpenGL also makes porting easier. And SDL is dream to work with. Look at the code for generating a window in M$ and compare it to the SDL code.

For all of you interested in game programming (and find nehe to be too confusing -- like me at first) check out http://www.gametutorials.com . They cater mostly to a .NET crowd but most of their tutorials have SDL ports. That site has been the best resource for me.

BTW I'm also a musician and have produced a lot of music. One (local) label actually featured some of my stuff on one of their compilation CDs. Even signed a contract-- didn't make any money or anything -- but that's not what I'm about. So if any of you wants some music for your games LET ME KNOW! I would love to write some tunes for your games!!

peace
gimbal

*smiles* Hei Gimbal :)
Sounds almost like me (apart from making code that actually works). I did my best coding on the commodore-64 and Amiga.
All the things i've tried on MS, turned out to work just as well (ieo. BSOD all the time).

I've been toying with an idea for a FPS for kids (with a sick twist of humor of course).
Main idea: start at a circus or something like that and everyone is a clown, with clown-weapons. Pies, bananas, waterballons etc...
*grins* with a choice between lethal or humiliating versions maybe. Maybe that's what i should do, make ideas for games and leave the coding to others? :)
One of these days i just have to sit down with UnrealED and try things out there. (when i'm done with school).

Now that you mention it (UED), I was thinking about a set of gaming tools, I mean, we (as hard-core or mid-range) gamers have tons of (good) ideas for games (either lin-only or win-lin-mac). But the problem comes at the tools end. To create a game you also need the tools to generate either scripts (like uscript), creating levels, new models (I know you can make som in UED), texture packages, sounds, etc, etc. So what about building a linux-game toolset?
I ignore (and it could be a herculian task) how a stnadard level editor could fit into different game engines and use some tools for different projects. Like the WorldCraft level editor used by Quake, Quake2, Half-Life, Quake3 (and I think Doom3 also uses it). Then again I'm talking about similar if not the same game engine here. But do you think it could be possible to have one huge toolset for game content cration to interact with different engines?

Again I ignore what would be needed to be done, from the programmatic stand point.

im still thinking of making a game, not of making a toolset. a game would be fun to fiddle and play with, and i think the linux community has quite a few game creation tools already, just not enough games.

In the event of making games... How about a brainstorm session for game ideas?

yes - [you heard it here first]

Instead of the boxed view of all these first person shooters [fps]-
I was thinking of implementing simulated peripheral vision - a simulation of the 180 degree view we as humans really have instead of the "boxed" view we get in a game.

This would entail having a sort of curved area around the sides of the screen where we can see [not very focused obviously] pretty much if there is any movement. For obvious reasons it cannot be allowed to take up too much of the screen but it should be effective in betting better views around corners etc without the gameplay becoming too clumbsey or difficult to manipulate - it could be given automated priority around corners or something.

The idea is to simulate real peripheral vision.

Even if it was just diagnal views [rather than the full 180] WITHOUT MOVING THE VIEW this would be a better simulation that what's currently going around in the games today.

Can anyone make this happen??? Does it give anyone any ideas???
I think it would be a nice experiment on something like the UT2003 Terrorist mod.

what ja say eh?

I can design some characters - maybe even make 'em 3D too.

that's a really original idea mossy. In fact i find the concept really fascinating. I have an idea that i think could be paired with yours to create a really intense experience. One of the problems i think with fps is that there is no real 'scare factor'. Sure they can get intense, but they're never scary. I mean fighting your way through a room full of crazed nazi-monster-alien-commando's can really get your heart pumping, but only with the fear of having to do it again. Now think about all the scariest, most intense movie moments you can remember...........I bet most of them involve the good guys running away in terror, or sneaking around all scared.

Make the player unable to fire his big shotgun when he's running. Make firing his pistol very difficult when running. If the player is running full tilt away from some sort of horror, he/she has to keep an eye in front of them, otherwise they can, stumble over stones, or bump into corners (which can cause them to spin slightly), or hitting your head while running will make their pov fly up, while slowing them down, and running into walls will make them stop and bounce back. [if you are looking where you're going then you won't stumble on stuff or get slowed down as much] I think with this and mossy's periferall vision idea you could create a really true to life experience.

However, i know my idea would be pretty difficult to implement. It could just turn into a pov twisting, wall bouncing pinball game. But i think with some work it could really be interesting.

Anyway, i'll be playing around with the unreal editor as soon as i get the damn game working (please visit my thread on the problem here!!) (my current problem is the 4th post)

And please anyone else with ideas for cool gameplay features, or just cool game ideas, feel free to submit!

Have you played Aliens vs Predator? I really didn't like that game, because I was suprised by an Alien every time (and they are powerfull, and get real close unnoticed) But the scared part was over when I discovered to play it like Quake 2; just arround, and run! The AI didn't seam to handle that part.

and be honest, it's not realistic; jumping around like that.. :confused: maybe this gives you some thought :)

Now that you mention it (UED), I was thinking about a set of gaming tools
@Thetargos: nice :) but let's not get too excited now.. :p Because this is open-source, and we're able write object-orientated code in C++, create libraries programs can link to (like SDL for example), it isn't hard to re-use code. If one game has a nice, well programmed framework, it can be extended to a more general purpose. (or the code can be taken and improved too for the next game... and both parties will benefit from this)

like abe the man said, you could make your aiming, firing, reloading, etc. influenced by horror that you stand. some kind of meter? it reminds me of eternal darkness: sanity's requiem for gamecube. when you lose your sanity, pictures like the mona lisa (just an example, i dont know if its actually in the game) look like torture fields or gory scenes, and you hear eerie tales when you talk to someone. thats a good idea, getting us a little closer to total immersion games :)

Another idea....is to give the player the ability to move thier heads, without their gun moving...im sure this would be easy, set a bind to turn on/off this feature...something that i havent seen done and its something that i would like to happen...how about if someone gets shot with a high calibur round lets say in their hand...they loose their hand and start to blead to death and they have to use their off hand, thus making it harder to hit something....yada yada yada...and Prone...gotta have prone....
and body armor that works...i.e. you get shot in the vest and you take minimal damage, or get knocked down...someone hits an area that is not covered by the armor...you take alot of damage, or die...

ya, that would be cool, and i think i know the reason why someone hasnt tried it already: it would be hard to control. i know you said its an option, but if you turned it on, well... you would have to have 2 mice, 1 keyboard and 3 hands ;)

still, its a good idea :)

yeah alot of the mods try to achieve this by placing more of a kill rate around the head. If you hit the head it's possible to kill with one bullet but if you hit the body or legs you can sustain a few shots.

I guess the game play has to be interesting enough to attract people. I would be wary that if you were shot in the leg [as does happen quite often in games] and were lame/impaired for the rest of the game it would be a turnoff to game players. I kinda like the the idea of just having the life/energy force - when it's gone it's gone. You dead. Until next round. The fact that they're out of the game until the next round adds something to strive for. I know when I played CS I hated getting knocked out of the game too early. Makes you alittle more careful - as if it were real you know. I'm not going down. I look around corners first - etc etc. Wereas in stuff like UT2003 you just run around blasting everything - nothing matters - less skill - you just come back straight away after dying. Over and over and over. It does not do it for me. It lacks the real adrenaline cos I'll just come back and eventually blast the guy due to repetition/brute force.

I might look into Tactical Ops - someone said they can get it working native in linux??

I was thinking more based on the players actions. If the player is running as fast as he can, then he'll find it difficult to fire/reload etc. But maybe a heart-beat monitor to measure terror. If the player hears a gunshot real close, his heart rate will go up, maybe even strength/accuracy etc, due to an adrenaline rush. But get too scared, and everything becomes more difficult. I'm not just talking horror games here, i mean any fps (maybe not so great in multiplayer). I mean having people shoot at you has got to be pretty scary!

And i like your idea of moving your head separately arioch. Maybe a 'quick look' button to sneek a peek behind you without having to turn around?

Ever played Undying?? But yeah... it lacks the survival horror experience like that of Silent Hill (where you play with a non-skilled player whatsoever!) or Fatal Frame (I recommend this one for a good scare, for PS2/XBOX). The point: we lack some good Survival Horror games for the PC (and in this case Lin-PC :D)

Along the same lines as that, however a quick look button would give the player an advantage that you would not have in real life. More like a "toggle" button to enter and exit out of this perspective. With using the standard "Move" buttons to position yourself for better angles. Maybe a qiuick look button(s) for a 90 degree quick look would work. I think that we have alot of interesting ideas, its just going to be tieing them together in a way that would be, how would you say..."user friendly"? It's just a matter of camera angles and manipulation.

/edit
ignore the spelling, i forgot to click the spell check button :eek:

yeah agreed on the quickview over the shoulder.
I think it's a nice concept to have the adrenaline/fear as a factor - regulating it to where it will not hinder overall gameplay might be difficult but it could possible be done nicely. For instance in a game where there is alot of action and and or constant firefights I am not sure how it could be regulated.

Possibly [another factor] is the players themselves are pumped with [real] adrenaline [hopefully if game is good] and this should impact on their gameplay [I know this is the case with me and CS]. Emulating emotions themselves in a fpt may be very tricky to be workable or effective. Could be Interesting tho.

although arioch - I don't think it would be any advantage we don't have in real life - after all we automaticall have peripheral vision for 180 degrees and a quick glance over our shoulder increases the spectrum by another 90 degrees - this is 45 degrees for each over the shoulder glance. I know I certainly would be looking over my shoulder constantly in a real firefight/combat type scenario. Wow I want to play something tonight.

the Doom3 demo was leaked - we were checking it out the other day.
Looks great for graphics. However the same old boxed view really impedes these fps games. THese damn monsters are up on you in less than a second - it was hard - although there was quite abit of lag - not sure if it was the unfinished demo or our system - running the 128mb radeon 9700 - should not have been an issue - although the graphics were really high-qual.

Then 2 quick look buttons one at 160 degrees from front and another at 200 degrees? I personally dont like the 180 degree quick look but thats just my opinion. And mossy do you have sof2? because if you do ill be more than happy to shoot you :D I also have delta force and .:[ewww/cough/crap]:. halo .:[ewww/cough/crap]:.

I think these ideas of a wide angle view could really benefit of having at least two monitors or anamorphic screen shape (well I don't know how would it be for the up and down views). In any case two monitors would add some more. Problem is, not everybody has the fortune to have a dual monitor setup :( (I am one of those unfortunate ones).

In any case, for what I understand here, we're taliking about a Survival horror first person shooter-like game, right? Like those Resident Evil Code Veronica (PS2, GC), or Eternal Darkness (GC), or the upcomming Doom3.

I don't think that we are that far yet...still throwing together ideas... :D I could be wrong though....

yeah on the ideas.
[basically I'm big on a CS like mode for linux -one that works better and ups's the standard with the periperal vision].
Yes two or even three monitors would be great! lol - how about changing the hw and we could start a new gamin monitor - really wide ones like the Apple widescreen monitors that came out. Hardcore gamers in the future might be interested. There could be an option to turn on/off the widescreen peripheral vision - if you have the h/w or not.


ps - what's sof2 - Soldier of Fortune?
I basically only have UT2003 and Quake running on my box now.
My XP box is starting to crap out - win explorer keeps locking up while on the network. [phew thank goodness I have the crimson hat to wear].

I am sort of interested in the Tactical Ops game for Linux - Also Will be installing Urban Terror over quake sometime when I get the chance.

Are you insterested in running UT2003 to night?


[edit - I'm being Idealistic on the monitors btw]