For everyone who remembers Kaypro
 

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...g-for-your-job This is an enjoyable article about the economic prospect of automation in the new The New Yorker by the wonderful Jill Lepore. I listened to the audio version http://audm.herokuapp.com/player-emb...ea5a06978cc1e8 while eating dinner then doing the dishes

Interesting read thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0djQ134cjw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jyGsKOzEVE

Yet some people seem to think some measly ol' wall will prevent people from going to amazing lengths of effort when what's at stake is a nearly tenfold increase in pay. Hmmmm... Think about it. If you were making a measly 50K a year, I seriously doubt even an entire Ocean could keep you from taking a job at half a million a year. How many people would you have to bribe or kill would likely be your first question. ;)

i think you're forgetting the equally manyfold increase in living costs.
...
i think many immigrants are also forgetting that.

They don't have to consider living costs when things like this happen/are encouraged:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...illegally.html

The first "personal computer" I ever got to play with was a Kaypro "luggable"

Two 5 1/4" floppy drives
A 4" CRT (no hard drive)
Keyboard clipped on one end. (no mouse)
cp/m operating system.

Spent most of my time learning WordStar* and playing DOS games...and trying to teach my mother to use it instead of her IBM Selectric (it was her computer)

*pico/nano very similar to WordStar, IMO.

Chang I realize from considerable posts of yours that you are a modern far right guy but seriously must you continually post articles from known unreliable sources? Don't you realize this actually hurts your arguments?

The Daily Mail is a Tabloid, Bro, and it is known for sensationalism and ridiculous scare stories designed to shock and enrage in order to sell product. Why would you even read such a rag let alone post a link to it as any sort of reliable information?

In this case, apart from any sort of politics or judgment, it is simply that economics is a powerful force. How can anyone suppose that an impoverished Mexican peasant isn't better off making ten times as much income even if his/her living expenses double or worse?... OR that there aren't businesses that benefit from the cheap (relative to indigenous standards) labor? The point is no wall, no matter how tall and long, is going to stop that, and an argument can be made that we shouldn't even try, since on both sides there are economic needs and benefits. In this case it is unlikely any Kaypro thread would even exist today since their products apparently depended almost entirely on low production costs made possible by cheap labor.

Your judgment could not be further from the truth, I am neither left nor right and also not very modern. FYI, far right and far left are the same thing.

Sometimes ones trash reveals more about them then any other source. :)

And this differs from other tech companies how? Even apple is made with cheap labor, they just insist on high consumer prices, and gullible users to pay those prices.

C'mon. You know they are not the same. Do they have some similarities? Sure. But Lefties allude to Social Justice and equality (to the point of cookie cutter societies) but end up with a ruling elite. Righties promote individual freedom IF you are considered Native since Nationalism is big with most modern Righties but also end up with a ruling elite. Only invasive, rigid ruling structures are similar. Their platforms are night and day.

All one has to do these days is let your browser keep personal data which alters your profile to end up in either a Left Wing echo chamber or a Right Wing echo chamber. They are quite different from each other. If you really would like to know how different install a few extra browsers and search so-called liberal terms, like social justice, socialism, equal pay, gender neutrality, etc. on one, and so-called conservative terms like "states rights', pizzagate, repealing ACA, gun control, etc., then give it six months of following those paths and tell anyone including yourself they are the same.

Non sequitur. Looking through someone's trash for what they discard can tell a great deal about a person's likes and dislikes. Reading sensationalist trash let alone quoting or referencing it as evidence may only hint to an agenda where the reader prefers sources that tell them what they want to hear. So that you link such sources tells more about you than it does the subject at hand. Was that what you were going for?


All corporations rightfully charge what they think the market will bear, often regardless of their costs. The ones that make consumers happy enough to part with their money survive. Those that don't, don't. There is always a market for "cheaper" so many companies seek to lower costs to achieve a small profit at higher volume while others seek higher profit at higher profits that may offer some higher quality, but as you've said some just depend on elite snobbery, perhaps totally convinced if something costs more it must be better, and it surely impresses their circle of friends ;)

That's not the point here. What is the point is that no wall is going to stop... maybe impede, but certainly not stop those, with enough fear, hunger, desire and/or guts to pull themselves up by any means possible, including extreme risk, bribery, hidden compartments and tunnels. Kaypro was a tiny tip of a massive iceberg. It will never stop anymore than the War on Drugs has even put a dent in Drug Trafficking. Supply and Demand is a potent combination.

Maybe they can come to Europe instead, or go straight to Canada. Welcome!

I don't see the moral difference between using illegal immigrants as cheap labour and getting your stuff built in Indonesia or China with cheap local labour. It's exploitation either way.

Agreed. However the perfect world in which all nations can provide meaningful employment to anyone who wants a job is not yet a reality. When survival is at stake, morals tend to go on holiday. I sincerely hope that one day humanity achieves a level of stability where Economics is less a "cruel mistress" and more a nurturing Mother, but until then the old adages will apply - "Money doesn't talk, it swears" and "Money talks and bullshit walks". In this thread my point is that it is impossibly foolish to spend money to attempt to prevent others from making a living wage. They will find a way exactly because they have to.

That paraphrases Brecht! "Erst kommt das Fressen, dann kommt die Moral!" (From Mack the Knife)