Thanks for the prompt action. Hope I don't have to request such changes in future. I listen to all mod comments and look at them as friendly suggestions.

what about using a terminal only?

Please tell me why you need x11, realluy

It all depends on how old a PC/software the user really wants or not to use a PC at all. Most of the times, I don't even need terminal, I just
use pen, pencil, color pencils and paper.

You may also install tinyX on your Debian platform instead of using xorg or try ubuntu MIR (heavy) , Wayland,...



Or code it yourself something lightweight

Thanks for these suggestions. The two older PCs I mainly use are one from 2001 and another from 1999, they don't support youtube or video. Don't think all above OSes will work on them. (I use a P4 server for linkedin and facebook but this has no sound). I am glad that puppy Linux works on them. I am not a coder, so can't do it myself.

On a different note, now I see the points some raised here before.
The older PCs are true dinosaurs and power guzzlers compared to the tiny PCs that we are seeing come out:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/25912..._than_100.html

These PCs offer several advantages including:
1. Cheaper Price
2. More Performance
3. Ease of portability, storage
4. Enormous Power savings
5. Transportation convenience
6. Space savings in office
7. Less of a fire/power hazard, so more safe.

Initially, I was very hesitant when folks suggested the Rasberry pi. But I have to agree, that in the future, it appears that these smaller
PCs will take over. Down the road, it will be wise to just recycle the older PCs. A few may remain in museums, with collectors, gather
dust in basement and less few with users who use them for specific applications that need them. Some are very fast to see the future trends
and adapt to them. Majority will adopt when the trend goes mainstream. Few will hang on and do it only if really needed. I belong to the last category. Also, if PCs become this cheap, then folks will be tempted to upgrade more often and there will be more used PCs.

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but an old version of redhat would work.

Thanks for this. Several months ago I did see an article saying that older versions of Linux will work. However, with time these are
disappearing slowly as there is less need for them.

For now, my older PCs are working ok with Puppy Linux. I use them for light browsing, email, streaming net radio and to display pictures that I sketch, paint.

As an aside, rather than just the technology, end of use of the PC towards arts is more of my interest.

I dont think that ARM and other low powered CPUs are going to take over quite like that.

You can already get those sorts of CPUs on tablets, phones, etc.. The advantage of using low power architectures (right now anyway) is small size, low cost, low power consumption, and in some cases flexability.

x86 is higher in cost, and does use more power......but they have a lot of performance.

The 'trend' toward lower power use and lower performance is already mainstream.

People who buy desktops and x86 laptops want a bit more performance than the low power architectures currently provide.

ARM etc. will get closer to x86 performance, but that will still be at some cost, both in price and power consumption.

People may 'upgrade' to newer systems just because its newer, but that is being stupid IMO. Buy what you need and can afford, use it until- it breaks, or it is cheaper to run a newer system (due to power consumption improvments) or it stops being able to do what you want it to do.

Puppy never seemed to be good idea on minimal RAM systems.

Have you tried Antix or Crunchbang for a comparison?

Would probably work, it is a really bad idea.

Do not use unsupported OSes. Or OSes that you need to pay a subscription for to get secrity updates if you arent going to pay (and if you've got enough money to give Red Hat for support, you've got enough money to buy a newer system that can run a current OS).

Thanks for the very informative post as usual. See, I am a very basic user as I said before with focus being more on using these PCs to support my sketching, painting efforts and basic net use. Puppy works very well on these PCs for these purposes, helps me forget the technology and focus more on my art.

To be fair, I have to admit tho, that such old PCs are no good for digital painting. Digital arts and digital software, video editing etc., are quite resource intensive. The CPU is just unable to handle the demands of the software and it crashed once when I made a very simple picture for a test and tried to erase a small part. So, if one really needs performance and digital art etc., it is best to play it safe and get a good, more recent PC.

Digital sketching seems ok from what I have tried tho. Fortunately, I don't have to actually use all this for now.

Why you simply dont browse over the framebuffer with links2 -g ?
For office, you can still use many applications (ex. cliword, clispread,...)

For tex, you can use emacs
For chat, irssi

For pic viewing and movies: mplayer on fb

and so on.

All above are working except movies and youtube. However, these are not vital for me at this point.

A few clarifications are due:
1. I used to like movies before. However, the advantage of net radio is that it allows me to do other things while listening to it.
It doesn't keep me glued to the screen.
2. In the last few months I have learned that if it is working well, then leave it alone, don't meddle with it. The only exception to this is when there is a vital learning experience.
3. Rather than to try and fit the technology to myself, I try to see what I wish to accomplish and how this PC will help me do that.
Other than net radio, email and basic surfing, most of my objectives are artistic.

These points above greatly influence the way I use my older PCs. Presently, I am able to use them peacefully with contentment.

Let us focus on the applications of my old PC a bit. This makes it more interesting and hopefully will generate discussions along these lines of applications of Older PCs for the mutual benefit of all those interested.

1. Art from Photos displayed on old PC
As an artist, I display photos on my old PC. Then I make art based on them. Some stamp sized color pencil landscape art that I made recently
can be found below:
http://picpaste.com/pics/RYg1u8da.1376091330.jpeg

These stamp sized paintings are:
a. Convenient to carry
b. Easy to mail
c. Easy to store
d. Good for small apartment, work cubicle etc.,

2. Net Radio
a. I like to stream Echo Moscovitch sometimes as I don't know the language, so don't have to worry about the contents and it sort of is soothing.
b. Old Time Radio Shows
These are amazing to listen, the different actors, background sound and sound effects are amazing.
Small files of these are also available for DL for free on archive.org
Some single CDs can be purchased for cheap on net, there is also a big 136 DVD collection for 500 bucks, it is tempting but not sure who will
find time to listen to all that.

3. Audiobooks
Lots of classic audiobooks for free at Librivox.org. A single audiobook can run for 11 hours or so. Hence, it is better to listen a few chapters at a time. I prefer to listen to short story collections. Best part is that these are all free for DL at librivox. Many new titles added every week.

4. Movies
A few years ago, I used to watch classic older movies from archive.org or those borrowed from my local library. However, I prefer 2 and 3 above as it also allows me to do 1(art) or other things at the same time.

5. Journal
I used to keep an eJournal briefly a few years before but then, these days I prefer to use pen and paper or pencil and paper mostly.

6. Rough Sketching
For sketching also, mostly I prefer pen and paper. However, eSketching is good to save a partially done sketch and then explore different variations of it. This is very useful for study. Then the best variation can be used for pen and pencil.

7. Games
These are less graphic intensive, first person shooter games and some puzzles like sokoban etc.,
I have played them before sometimes but rarely play them these days. They come along with Puppy Linux mostly.

8. Normal Misc. Uses
Web surfing, email, calculations.

If your older PC serves you well for any specific application not mentioned above, please share here. This will be a good learning experience for me. Thanks in advance.

Someone suggested that I try weebly.com to build a small web-site. Weebly site editor is all greyed out and will not load on this older PC (P4 server) with Puppy Linux and seamonkey browser. Just sharing this experience for now, will reflect more on it.

I have reduced the use of old PC for Old Time Radio Shows. Instead I am able to DL OTR episodes directly to my mp3 player directly from here:
http://archive.org/details/OTRR_Gunsmoke_Singles

This is also convenient considering transportation.

cool... is there some stream open for that? mor ethan 50 years

There is a stream, it is under puppy radio in puppy linux. I don't have exact link for it. Google for it and am sure you will find it.

EDIT: This could be the one. Try this:
http://mpir-otr.com/menu/

it shall be created or added to fretuxtv ... those streams

Oh cool. See the OTRs are amazing for their music and special effects. Really cool and relaxing to listen. The only thing about the stream I find is that, you have listen to what they play, even if you don't like it. Normally, it is ok to listen tho. However, if you slowly DL and create your own collection, then you can listen to whatever you wish and are not limited, cornered to what they are playing.

FREE audiobooks from Librivox.org are also amazing. However, these don't have special effects and good sounds. If one can ignore this(comes with time) then one can easily get a wide variety of media to listen to. It is a lot slower than reading a real book but the effect is very deep, specially if one is feeling lonely, bored or on a very cold day etc., I listened to one Chapter of an Audiobook today, Russian Short Stories and it gave me some extremely deep satisfaction. A stream for these is out of the question tho, as many audiobooks run for 10 hours+. Perhaps, who knows tho, in the future, librivox may have a stream of short stories alone. They can have ads inbetween that will support the service and user requests etc.,

The PS2 mouse that came with an older PC is not working properly, the left button stopped responding. Opening it and cleaning it well didn't help. Guess it has lived its life. I am just using another PS2 mouse now, good to have at least one replacement spare, specially with old IT stuff. If not, need to have a good plan to recycle it.

Most IT and sales jobs in Quebec need French these days, I am taking an intermediate French refresher course and also wished to practise typing in French. In this regard, I needed an old French KB and just got it on freecycle, also I was offered a network card and modem card if I picked up the KB ASAP. So, I just went and got them all.

Since my last post here, a few older IT items, a Server Tower and a fairly large collection of old IT stuff were offered on freecycle locally. I am very glad I decided not to collect these as these were quickly collected by others and hopefully will be put to good use.

An amazing article that predicts future trends of Robotics and some related IT::
http://www.naturalnews.com/042276_ro...pulation.html#

As and when all the above comes true, with time, most of the IT we will have even from 5 or 10 years from today will seem like abacus it appears. No one will even want P4s unless it is a rare special collector.

Someone offered a networking kit and another person two old IBM PCs from Win 2000 era on local freecycle. Both were claimed fast and this is good.

One day, I wonder if old PCs will be prohibited on the net as they are too slow, like using a bicycle on the highway in not allowed.

Today it was mentioned in local news that 1/3rd of retailers are resorting to false/incorrect advertising and overcharging clients at the cash. I have experienced this sometimes, however it was quite stunning to hear this in the news, that too, the figures being this high. If so many retailers are doing this, then the economy must be quite challenging. Whenever, I bought a new PC before in store, I was also bombarded with all sorts of other related products and extended warranty etc., I had to keep on saying no and dodge the efforts of the various store clerks. I was sooo glad to pay my bill, leave the store and return home.

This is one solid reason to still continue to use older PCs. Those folks who gave me older PCs, gave them gladly and even gave other extras to go with them for free. It feels amazing to have all these older PCs. and use them in peace without having to worry too much about other things.

Now on this server from 2006, some buttons on linkedin are not working, they are not even appearing. Perhaps, I have to use a new browser. However, I will just try to use another PC for this when needed like in a library or another public more recent PC. With time, I expect such issues to spread to other sites also. The big one will be when web email is affected. This is when, many will reconsider the use of older PCs or use them in a limited manner I feel.

Do you mean in general retail, or computer hardware/software retail?

No, not really.

Retailers make money by selling things..if some trick will increase sales, at least some retailers will use it. Then if a couple of retailers do the same thing, others in the same industy will follow. Then it becomes 'industry standard', and almost everyone does it....

The computer stores that I go to here have very few of those tricks, like 'upselling'. At one of them, I place an order, then go pick it up. The other I just walk in and ask for parts XXXs, YYYs and ZZZs, they bring them out, I pay then leave. There are various reasons why they operate that way, not the least of which is that it costs less to have a lower level of 'customer service' (which can sometimes be 'lets bug the customer to buy more stuff they dont want or need').

I belive that they should be stores selling computer parts in Quebec, or somewhere in canada who have a similar policy.

Could just be some odd browser issue....but it could be because its way out of date. IMO it doesnt matter if its a old computer, or a new computer, using unsupported browsers is a _really_bad_idea_.

Its one thing to use an older computer as an offline jukebox/media player, or basic document writing. If its ever hooked up to the internet, you really need a supported and currently updated OS and browser.

The news report mentioned all retail stores in general. The stores also offer the option of ordering via web and then pickup at the store, however I have not tried this much in recent years. There is a lot of change on the web, so browsers are getting outdated fast it appears.
I know this is not good but as long as my OS, related software does all the basic things, I don't upgrade it, even if it is not supported. Only when things get very critical, do I upgrade. It would be good to atleast check out newer versions of the OS and give it a test run. However, I have to admit that I get complacent.

In that case you should handle all your not updated systems that are connected to the net as potentially compromised systems. I hope that you really think that strategy over, so that there is less potential for other people to get annoyed or even attacked from one of your machines.

Thanks, good point. I use a live CD and am not logged in usually for more than an hour at a time. Mostly login few times a day, randomly. So, chances of this PC getting hacked are little. Also, nothing interesting on this PC for it to be hacked.

Using a live-medium of course significantly reduces the chance of getting compromised.
Keep in mind that usually such hacks are fully automated and in many cases aim not at your data, but the computing power, disk space and bandwidth, for example to host illegal content or to attack other systems.

I didn't know that such hacks are automated. The computing power and disk space on these older PCs are extremely poor usually.

Media reports in general can be rather stupid and biased. If its about general retail then it doesnt mean much at all as far as computers go, does it?

If you choose to buy on 'big name' or 'main street' or similar stores, you'll be treated like the average ignorant sheep looking to buy a computer.

They are hardly the only places to get computers or parts, IMO there is at least one decent shop in every major city.

Find the good places, and encourage people you know to buy from them. Its a good way to stop the big name stores and dodgy retailers to stop using those tricks.

Yike.

Its one thing to have an older system with ancient out of support OSes offline, but everything online should be kept updated.

Does not matter at all.

The average automated atack is not trying to hack machines to store large amounts of data, or to access data already present on random systems.

What they want it for is for things like botnets, or to use in DDoS attacks on major systems, etc.

Even a 10+ year old system is capable of saturating the bandwidth of most home internet connections.

While what an speed an average 'home internet connection' would be, its not that fast. Even 20Mbps, which is considered in many place to be a good speed for a home conenction is only 3MB/sec.....you'd need to be getting up to 100Mbps+ for even a basic 586 to have problems keeing up...

Most folks love to buy from such stores, that is why they still exist and make great profits.

A PC store offering parts for older PCs for free locally:
http://montreal.en.craigslist.ca/zip/4305437123.html

This is quite amazing. Wish other stores and IT Techs would do the same
instead of just recycling stuff away.

This may seem rather ironic but I had to actually give away some of my older laptops and a P3 PC(This has no hard drive and DVD drive doesn't work) for recycling. My apartment was inspected and I was strongly advised to reduce stuff ASAP. So, the older books and the older IT stuff were the first to go.

I still have a P4 server, my P2 and a regular P4 etc., Still using older PCs Happily.

Best Wishes.

Regarding physical repairs and adhesives or casting compounds - While I agree that epoxy is an extremely useful adhesive and can in some situations work as a casting compound, due to it's high viscosity and relatively slow cure times it also has some sever limitations that can be overcome with cyanoacrylates, often referred to as well as branded as "super glue", "crazy glue", etc. I avoid the gels for most work since if a large void needs to be filled there is a vastly better method.

Using very low viscosity cyanoacrylates and particulate matter, commonly the same as the material you are repairing (eg: repairing wood? use sawdust) one can wick a large amount of the adhesive into the particulate material filling the void. This would normally vastly increase the cure time but there is available an accessory chemical referred to as "accelerant" that causes "super glue" to cure immediately, often with considerable heat so be careful. It cures in mere seconds and can be machined, sanded and polished. With some filler particulate material it can even be tapped, or threaded to receive machine bolts. Once you try this your mind will race with the possibilities. It is extremely useful.

I had bought a tablet PC in 2011 and have hardly used it since then. Recently I felt like using it and experimenting with its features. Tablet is like a retro PC but with the convenience of small size, portability etc., Now I am really hooked on my tablet and will use my older PCs for lesser tasks specially when I have to use net a lot.

I bought a tablet, but I soon went back to my laptops/desktop, couldn't get used to it at all.
Gave it to my nephew & he loves it. :)

Yes, I was the exact same like you. Got my tablet in 2011 !!! Never used it much since then, just till recently. Amazing how I changed suddenly. Guess I understood more that the metal, plastics and chips etc., that make my older PC are just materials and not giving me the retro experience per say. If recycling them is better for all, then might as well do this. The older P4s are going f0r 20 bucks or soo even online locally. At this rate, it is better to recycle them.

After using eReader, with eInk screen, I had much trouble getting used bright tablet screen close to my face. Surprisingly now I am ok with it suddenly, after I reduced my eink ereader usage for a while.

Specially in a smaller apt. tablet makes all the more sense. No need for monitor also.

Here is my full tablet learning experience at another site for those interested:
http://www.freedomlist.com/forum/vie...=230116#230116

what about an ebook? I am fan of that. You can read anywhere, anytime and no worries to reload daily.

They are good for reading for sure. But not for all the other things that a tablet does. Tablet has more of a retro feel.

True, I also find an ebook quite fun for web browsing also (I know, still reading but a little different), when using WiFi, sadly the touchscreen on my Kindle isn't good enough to post on here without taking ten times as long to post something with more mistakes from this post I'm making from my Blackberry so I tend not to bother much.

Heve not been here in a while.

Just letting rvijay know. Since he is also a fellow computer user on a limited budget.

I picked up few Dell and IBM servers from our local city hall for free heading for the landfill.
Harddrives were missing. Pulled of course. No cords and one had to be trashed for parts anyways
because of hard ware failure.

But they will run any modern Linux distro. Having dual core and single core pentium 4 processors.
Find out who the IT guy is at your local Canadian govt office. Make him a friend.
This worked for me in my small town. Amazing what a few beers will get you.

If a bit curious. Check my profile and the "dumpster diver" social group here.

Happy Trailz, Rok

Amazing yes, advanced networking seems to be the way to go. Thanks for sharing. :)

Now it makes sense to have an external retro hard drive with one partition each for:
1. Books
2. Videos
3. Music
4. AudioBooks
5. Games
6. Misc.

This way, even if one has to change the older hardware, the data is safe and available. Also, it is better to keep a backup of this HD.

I am downloading Old Time Radio programs now to external HD via older PC, they are quite retro and I listen to them on mp3 player.

One very vital point that came to my mind in regards to retro PCs is that the software and media for these may not be available for these in the future. So, even if one has limited space for now, or is moving etc., to try and grab retro PC software and retro media that can be used for the future.

There is some outstanding retro media available at archive.org including old time radio shows by the Gigs and Gigs. Even if an older PC can't play videos, it can be used as a media PC to play such retro audio files. :)

Commodore PC Still Controls Heat and A/C At 19 Michigan Public Schools
http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/...public-schools

This is impressive to read and see.

i'd like to have some sort of linux netbook that has a screen like that (because totally readable even in glaring sunshine).
is that possible?
or even install linux to an ebook reader?

Most, if not all, of the ebook readers with E-Ink display run already on embedded Linux and the kernel has all the drivers you need. While it may be hard to install Linux on those devices, it is possible to build your own with cheap hardware, like the Raspberry Pi, Beagle Bone or Gumstix:
http://www.linuxjournal.com/magazine...-x-and-gumstix
https://learn.adafruit.com/repaper-e...s-and-examples

yes.

but, the LJ article looks good.
maybe one could build that into an old netbook case & keyboard...