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rvijay 02-11-2013 10:24 AM

Anything about old PCs, their uses, related OSes and their users
 
I have a very old Pentium 2 PC, tried various linux distros and it is super slow when they load rarely, usually they don't boot. This thread is a last ditch effort for this PC. Here is the full post about this at another forum:
http://www.freedomlist.com/forum/vie...=223201#223201

snowday 02-11-2013 10:33 AM

You said you got SliTaz working, so what is your question exactly? Were you expecting Linux to be super fast on a very old Pentium 2?

TobiSGD 02-11-2013 10:33 AM

Please post the complete specs of that PC, especially CPU, RAM and harddisk size.
Also, what is the intended purpose of that machine?

rvijay 02-11-2013 10:58 AM

Specs:
AMD 333 Mhz Processor
Ram: 32 Mb
Hard Drive: 4 Gig
Floppy Disk Drive
CD Read Writer
No Ethernet card
Screws for case missing, so need to handle it carefully.

Yes, I expected this PC to be slow but not this slow. I used this from 1999 - till 2006. Now I see how much faster everything has become. Back in those days this PC was ok. Now even my eReader seems faster than this PC.

I wanted to use this PC sort of as a backup PC if my main PC goes down. Or if it works ok for very basic surfing and text reading, then I cam use this more and give my main PC rest so that this will last longer.

snowday 02-11-2013 11:03 AM

Time to recycle your old Pentium 2 with 32mb ram. Not worth the price of electricity to keep it running! Here is a $25 computer with much higher hardware specs:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/

If you check your local Craigslist, Freecycle, Goodwill, you can upgrade your hardware for zero or low cost.

http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/10...-old-computer/

Honestly you can simply go to your local wireless store and get a free smartphone (with 2 year contract) that has much better hardware specs and will be a more capable machine for "very basic surfing and text reading" with the side benefit of fitting in your pocket (and you can make phone calls too).

rvijay 02-11-2013 11:19 AM

Yes it feels nostalgic but appears it is time to recycle this PC. Even my eReader works far better. It feels a bit sad as I learned Linux on this PC and my first posts here were from this PC. However, I have had to give up other PCs in the past once their life was over. Nothing is for ever and everything comes to an end.

frieza 02-11-2013 11:21 AM

sheesh, @ the people who say 'just buy a newer machine, they're cheep', some people (myself included) actually WANT to use old hardware
that being said, a machine like that you're probably better off adding a big hard drive and a text-only server install, such as a file server, or a web server.

snowday 02-11-2013 11:28 AM

Moore's Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law

Pentium 2 was introduced in 1997.

notsure 02-11-2013 11:49 AM

Personally, I would consider the P2 to be a waste of electricity at the very least. After that I would consider it to be a waste of time waiting for the computer to work. Life is too short to use slow computers. Why allow a computer to bottleneck your life? ha

TobiSGD 02-11-2013 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvijay (Post 4889204)
Specs:
AMD 333 Mhz Processor
Ram: 32 Mb
Hard Drive: 4 Gig
Floppy Disk Drive
CD Read Writer
No Ethernet card
Screws for case missing, so need to handle it carefully.

Well you could add some RAM to make the machine able to even handle the most basic tasks (when a GUI is involved), but to be honest, I would not spend 1€ for upgrading a machine like that, it is simply to old and not worth the money. If you can get more RAM for that machine for free you can install a distribution aimed at older PCs, like antiX, but you won't have much fun with it. Most newer distributions will not work anymore on such a machine because it lacks support for PAE and does not support the full i686 instruction set.

Quote:

Now even my eReader seems faster than this PC.
Most likely that is because it is faster than that PC.

I would second snowpine here, get something better, usually you can get much better for a small amount of money or even for free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frieza
that being said, a machine like that you're probably better off adding a big hard drive and a text-only server install, such as a file server, or a web server.

May be a good learning system for text-only, but not a server. At least not without adding a network card.

ukiuki 02-11-2013 11:54 AM

Quote:

...512MB ram and 40G hard drive...
Quote:

Originally Posted by rvijay (Post 4889171)
...Pentium 2 PC...

What is the clock of this tresure? Does it have off board video card?
Quote:

Originally Posted by rvijay (Post 4889171)
...tried various linux distros and it is super slow when they load rarely, usually they don't boot...

Please note you can't expect it to boot/load the system if your doing the default install(if that is the case), there are very few distributions that will run in an acceptable speed on those old machines, also you have to be careful with that because too much load can fry the motherboard or other parts.

It is possible to get it to work and run fast but probably not with any default install of any distro, it will be best to do a custom install. Debian is one good choice when it comes to old machines, minimal install followed by custom build can do the job.
Here some old machines running with that kind of setup:
Cyrix 250Mhz, 96Mb RAM, 30Gb hd, 32Mb video card
Pentiun II 700Mhz, 256Mb RAM, 40Gb hd, integrated 32Mb video card

Here you can find lots of info about old computers: http://kmandla.wordpress.com/howtos/

PS. I took too long to post and several posts come after I wrote the stuff, please just ignore the already answered questions.

Regards

rvijay 02-11-2013 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukiuki (Post 4889249)
Here you can find lots of info about old computers: http://kmandla.wordpress.com/howtos/

PS. I took too long to post and several posts come after I wrote the stuff, please just ignore the already answered questions.

Regards

Thanks for all the info. and the last link. Good to know all this.

NyteOwl 02-11-2013 12:56 PM

Speed problem here is the amount of RAM. I'm using two K6-2's (350MHz, & 500 MHz), a K6-III+@600MHz and a Celeron 550MHz but they all have 384-512MB RAM.

rvijay 02-11-2013 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyteOwl (Post 4889292)
Speed problem here is the amount of RAM. I'm using two K6-2's (350MHz, & 500 MHz), a K6-III+@600MHz and a Celeron 550MHz but they all have 384-512MB RAM.

What OS are you using on these ? I have 500Mb Linux swap partition also on this desktop, still not helping. Appears the older Oses are crashing as they are not able to recognize the more recent flat panel monitor.

I have Monitor: LG Flatron W1934S

Until 2005, Vector Linux 3.2 and Knoppix 3.6 worked perfectly on this PC. However, I had to setup Horizontal and Vertical refresh rate for the monitor manually then.

Also, on this PC, it says Ram can be extended max to only 256Mb on this, however there will not be a performance increase after 128Mb.

rvijay 02-11-2013 02:31 PM

This thread made me readup on how to setup FreeNas:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/25559...rn_server.html

Also got Freq for my PC:
Horiz: 30 to 83 Khz
Ver: 56-75 Hz
http://www.lg.com/levant_en/monitors/lg-W1934S

I need to use Xorg to set it up.

Also, found this:
http://hackaday.com/2011/08/19/insta...ld-pcs-part-2/

Free BSD needs atleast 64Mb of Ram and 5Gig HD for graphical interface install. Min. is 1Gig:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO...stall-pre.html

Free BSD 8.x will work with 24Mb Ram but there is a lot to learn about it. Also, graphical install is again demanding, the live CDs only work with command line interface. So, this is not very helpful either.

I got it working actually with Knoppix 3.6 Karma pays off. I had made several copies of this OS on CD to give to others around 2004. Have to use the following boot options:
knoppix lang=us desktop=wmaker screen=1024x768 depth=24 nodma 2

USB Mouse needs to be replugged usually once the OS has fully booted. It took me two days to work on this, but glad I got this figured.

It works ok and doesn't flicker like the slitaz Linux. Now I understand that security can be a concern if I go online with such an old PC. However, this PC is perfect for:
1. working offline, with no online distractions and minimal graphics.
2. reading text, pdf files
3. storing helpful info., manuals etc., on the hard drive
4. charging USB devices that I have like mp3 player
5. great backup temporary PC if my main PC fails, actually by using this PC more, I can extend the lifespan of my main PC.

Slitaz performs a lot better on this PC at resolution 640x480
This PC seems to actually have just 16Mb of Ram and has 500MB Linux swap, however slitaz doesn't seem to use it. Other drawbacks:
1. slitaz doesn't allow to write to mounted partitions (most OSes are like this tho, except DSL, need to modify fstab and mtab. Not great for live CD)
2. hard drive installed grub fails to boot and
3. the the browser doesn't allow to change colors. I prefer to have black background as this is better on eyes.

I got DSL also to boot atleast partially with the following:
dsl vga=normal lang=us nodma

However, after it boots, it goes thru xsetup and crashes after that. I even tried resolution 640x480 and depth 8, didn't help still.

As suggested by others here, I will keep an eye out for chances to upgrade this PC if it presents itself and continue to learn. It is also a great PC to revise Linux.

NyteOwl 02-12-2013 01:34 PM

Quote:

What OS are you using on these ? I have 500Mb Linux swap partition also on this desktop, still not helping. Appears the older Oses are crashing as they are not able to recognize the more recent flat panel monitor.
They all have Slackware on them (though I have used Debian on at least one of them as well). Originally 13.1 but with various updates/upgrades. The Celeron is a Thinkpad. They have been connected at different times to both CRT and LCD monitors. They usen Radeon 7200/7500 (32/64MB) PCI for graphics (onboard Trident disabled).

rvijay 02-12-2013 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyteOwl (Post 4890101)
They all have Slackware on them (though I have used Debian on at least one of them as well). Originally 13.1 but with various updates/upgrades. The Celeron is a Thinkpad. They have been connected at different times to both CRT and LCD monitors. They usen Radeon 7200/7500 (32/64MB) PCI for graphics (onboard Trident disabled).

Thanks. This experience taught me few basic stuff so far:
1. The older OSes are ok, it is more about using the right boot options and xsetup so that the OS works ok in the graphical interface.
2. It helps to keep an older PC updated promptly, resolve any issues and keep extra copies of the OS, applications etc.,
3. Revise using this PC every 6 months, look for any related updates on net etc.,
4. Be on lookout for cheap hardware upgrades and make use of them when available. This will also help if something fails, specially the power supply.
5. Assist others with older PCs to get better use from them.
6. DL and try using different OSes for older PCs. Don't relay on just one OS.
7. Keep a file with notes on any issues encountered, how they were solved, vital tips etc., Keep a printout of this file and also burn this file to CD/DVD.
8. Keep in touch with others who use such older PCs or start a forum, email list for this.
9. Retrocomputing - When folks are using such old PCs, it shouldn't be an issue to use PCs just a decade or so old.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrocomputing
10. If it really becomes junk and doesn't work, there here are some tips on how to let go of sentiments and declutter:
http://www.azcentral.com/style/hfe/decor/a...purge.html
I admit that I am sentimentally attached to this PC and from net can see that several others are also.
11. Minimalistic Computing:
For most basic routine tasks, older PCs are still ok. A very fast, latest PC is not needed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimalist_computing

Also, here is a wonderful OS that seems suitable for older PCs:
http://delicate-linux.net/
I will try this later and see how it goes.

dillon101001 02-13-2013 02:45 PM

vector linux
 
vector Linux.

it has internet and email
and has a similarity to windows 98

requirments

66 MHz Intel Pentium 1
166 MHz Intel Pentium MMX

16mb RAM
24mb recommended

rvijay 02-13-2013 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dillon101001 (Post 4891005)
vector Linux.

it has internet and email
and has a similarity to windows 98

requirments

66 MHz Intel Pentium 1
166 MHz Intel Pentium MMX

16mb RAM
24mb recommended

I used to use Vector Linux 3.2 before, almost first linux distro I tried, it had several hardware issues and I got assistance at their forum but all that is gone now. Which version of Vector Linux is this that you use ? Present light version of Vector Linux needs a more advanced PC that than it appears.

Thanks.

lykwydchykyn 02-13-2013 05:01 PM

I explored some linux and non-linux options for machines of this age a while back; here are my thoughts:

http://www.alandmoore.com/blog/2012/...ossible-tasks/

I have a few P2 machines that I've shoved as much RAM into as possible; if you get up above 128MB and keep your desktop REALLY minimal they aren't half-bad.

TobiSGD 02-13-2013 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lykwydchykyn (Post 4891093)
I explored some linux and non-linux options for machines of this age a while back; here are my thoughts:

http://www.alandmoore.com/blog/2012/...ossible-tasks/

I have a few P2 machines that I've shoved as much RAM into as possible; if you get up above 128MB and keep your desktop REALLY minimal they aren't half-bad.

Just had a look at KolibriOS mentioned in the article you linked to. For basic usage or as temporary system that really looks promising, especially with the very low hardware requirements. I will have a look at that OS in a VM later on, thanks for that.

rvijay 02-14-2013 03:33 AM

Knoppix 3.5 - Hard drive install failed to boot. So deleted this.
VL 7.0 std - Said bootable CD not found
VL 7.0 light - long time to install, like 4 hours, took the entire 3G partition, just basic JWM window Manager. No more space to upgrade to Light level. So, uninstalled this.

Puppy Quirky 1.4 Live CD - works like a charm. Browser takes 30 seconds to load, rest of the apps take a few seconds to load. Once booted, the Live CD can be released easily. Hard drive install doesn't boot tho. Grub fails to be detected on boot and gives disk failure. However, this is a very minor issue. For now my choice of OS for this PC is Puppy Quirky 1.4 But for the few seconds delays, it works exactly the same way as my present PC for what I wish to do. (Only thing is there is no DVD reader on it, but this is not needed).

Quote:

Originally Posted by lykwydchykyn (Post 4891093)
I explored some linux and non-linux options for machines of this age a while back; here are my thoughts:

http://www.alandmoore.com/blog/2012/...ossible-tasks/

I have a few P2 machines that I've shoved as much RAM into as possible; if you get up above 128MB and keep your desktop REALLY minimal they aren't half-bad.

Thanks for that useful link. How did they work well in those days with so little Ram ? I use Linux Swap partition for RAM however these days, it is more convenient.

I also downloaded the real tiny OS that you mentioned. These older PCs can be used for dedicated specific tasks. For eg., one man in local freecycle was looking for a stand alone PC to play Chess. Others use them as Webservers, routers, wifi hotspot etc., based on net posts.

I recollect now, I had an i386 first, it was slow to load images I think. These were the days of the BBS.

Then I had a Pentium 1. AT&T 75 Mhz PC, Don't recall the amount of Ram in it. It worked quite well for several years and cost a lot. Only reason I threw it was that it will not power on all the time. Sometimes, it took several tries to get it to boot. This PC helped me do a lot of things, including job search, entertainment. I have opened this PC a few times but didn't see anything wrong inside it back then. Was not technically inclined to change the PS on it etc.,

Later someone I knew gave me 386 and also a Pentium 1 Very old and used. This was before the days of CD writers. I used them to learn floppy Linux and couldn't do anything else above that. So I recycled these also.

That small OS must have worked great on these PCs. I should have looked for info. on net to repair these PCs but just kept it to myself. Also, I bought into the idea that newer and bigger is better.

It will be helpful to have a nice set of OSes and tips in advance to mend such old PCs if needed and Oses to use them. As someone said there must be a number of homes with one such dinosaur PC waiting to be revived.

As an aside, I still like pen and paper a lot, still use fountain pens. There is still a huge community that appreciates all these retro things and still finds them useful. It is just a matter of connecting with them and then learning.

I was curious as to how long this PC will last. I guess it is mostly related to how long the PSU lasts. Modern PSUs are more advanced, can heat the internals and affect other parts.

Found some interesting links in this regard:
http://forums.cnet.com/7723-7586_102...ktop-computer/

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1720

I checked out some used PC buying tips and realized that, a lot of the used PCs may have been used a lot and they may not have much life left in them. So it helps to know the seller of a used PC:
http://www.computerhope.com/btips/desktop.htm
and
http://sustainablog.org/2008/09/10-s...op-that-works/

I was wondering why my PC has lasted so long. I used it for only 4 to 6 hours a day on average when I used it. Sometimes, not even that. Also, have not used it at all in the last 6 years, so it still has a lot of life on it. These days I use PC for perhaps 3 hours a day or even lesser.

Around 1997 or so, I also used something called the Brother Geobook:
http://www.cnet.com/laptops/brother-...-30000475.html
Based on the link provided here earlier, now it appears this Geobook used a custom version of the BEOS software called Geos OS. I was pretty happy with this also but then it has no graphics and the screen also has a bright glow. Also, it was heavy. It got stolen a long time ago in 1999.

I also liked the older pocket organizers, come to think of it, they must have used some sort of Linux also it appears. I never expected to think this far but now am glad I started this thread. It is telling me to keep my eyes open and keep learning about linux, older PCs. This may feel like being in a Ghost Town but if the PC works and there is a need for it, better use it than trash it.

I am mistaken on two counts. First, I saw posts that folks using FreeBSD 2.2.1 or 2.2.5 were able to run them ok on PCs with similar specs to mine.

Second, Geos was its own OS, this post is also an eye opener in several ways:
http://www.linuxondesktop.in/2007/03...on-ubuntu.html

I have also used the Vax/Vms system with green terminals and the earlier IBM PCs that were DOS based I think. They were also quite cool to use, were practical and did their job well. Usenet was also very popular then. It is almost gone now.

I mostly read eBooks like this on my PC:
http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/4/2/0/9/42091/42091-0.txt

This is very light work for the CPU and doesn't strain it much. Hence, this can also be a factor in my PCs lasting longer. Also, I read for about an hour or so daily.

On a different note, in reflection, a floppy disk can be one of the most secure devices for small data. Most new PCs don't come with a floppy disk and those with old PCs don't use them. Wish I didn't throw away my floppy disks before.

Please share anything else in regards to older PCs or older OSes that you are aware here. It will be interesting for me to read this in my spare time and may also come in handy sometime. Thanks in advance.

vladimir1986 02-14-2013 03:29 PM

Meh, don't listen to those people asking you to buy a new PC

I have muLinux running on a Pentium 1, 133mhz 16mb Ram, It provides me Internet and X, It boots quick and works like a charm. It is based on Slackware: You install the main thing, on a single floppy, and then install the other packages who provide you programs or funcionality. Needs 14 mb of Ram with X, abiword, mpeg123 to play an mp3 xli to view pics and the links browser (on graphic mode)


http://www.micheleandreoli.it/mulinux/

frieza 02-14-2013 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vladimir1986 (Post 4891800)
Meh, don't listen to those people asking you to buy a new PC

I have muLinux running on a Pentium 1, 133mhz 16mb Ram, It provides me Internet and X, It boots quick and works like a charm. It is based on Slackware: You install the main thing, on a single floppy, and then install the other packages who provide you programs or funcionality. Needs 14 mb of Ram with X, abiword, mpeg123 to play an mp3 xli to view pics and the links browser (on graphic mode)


http://www.micheleandreoli.it/mulinux/

thank-you ^^
the problem here is called PERCEIVED obsolescence created by the corporate marketing machine, not ACTUAL obsolescence, if it works, it can still be used, even if it can't run modern games and/or play modern media, there are things that can be done with the computer (add a network card, use it as a server for instance).

granted, if the machine breaks, then it might not be worth fixing, but UNTIL it breaks, why throw it out?

lykwydchykyn 02-14-2013 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vladimir1986 (Post 4891800)
Meh, don't listen to those people asking you to buy a new PC

I have muLinux running on a Pentium 1, 133mhz 16mb Ram, It provides me Internet and X, It boots quick and works like a charm. It is based on Slackware: You install the main thing, on a single floppy, and then install the other packages who provide you programs or funcionality. Needs 14 mb of Ram with X, abiword, mpeg123 to play an mp3 xli to view pics and the links browser (on graphic mode)


http://www.micheleandreoli.it/mulinux/

I definitely need to check this out for those old machines I got.

rvijay 02-14-2013 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frieza (Post 4891827)
thank-you ^^
the problem here is called PERCEIVED obsolescence created by the corporate marketing machine, not ACTUAL obsolescence, if it works, it can still be used, even if it can't run modern games and/or play modern media, there are things that can be done with the computer (add a network card, use it as a server for instance).

granted, if the machine breaks, then it might not be worth fixing, but UNTIL it breaks, why throw it out?

On a related note, I can use older hardware as I read more and don't care for graphics that much. There are those who need graphics for work and entertainment. The need is never ending in this regard. However, sometimes this is good as it gives access to those with lesser resources access to such used systems. Due to ebooks, several paper books are being discarded these days.

Older PCs can be used as a backup PC. However, this is rarely mentioned. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by vladimir1986 (Post 4891800)
Meh, don't listen to those people asking you to buy a new PC

I have muLinux running on a Pentium 1, 133mhz 16mb Ram, It provides me Internet and X, It boots quick and works like a charm. It is based on Slackware: You install the main thing, on a single floppy, and then install the other packages who provide you programs or funcionality. Needs 14 mb of Ram with X, abiword, mpeg123 to play an mp3 xli to view pics and the links browser (on graphic mode)

http://www.micheleandreoli.it/mulinux/

Thanks for this link, Mulinux is good I heard. I had a copy several years ago, however threw it along with several others. Now I see the need to keep older OSes and also spare parts for older PCs. Specially the PSU.

Yesterday, I also found several games that are simple and can be use with Puppy Linux on this old PC:
http://www.smokey01.com/bruceb/pets_n_stuff.html

Tablet PCs are becoming more common, convenient and mobile. They can be used as the main PC for normal tasks and an older PC with USB support can be used to transfer lot of data to it etc., Here is an article on Early Tablet PCs and their OSes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_tablet_computers

These tablet PCs are also expected with Linux in the future:
http://www.zdnet.com/2013-the-year-o...ne-7000009254/

Perhaps, these OSes can also be tried on older PCs.

mjolnir 02-15-2013 02:18 PM

@rvijay I didn't have any ebooks on a box to test, I usually d/l them straight to my Kindle. I did have some .pdf files that I reformat to fit my ereader and they display nicely from the Cli, no gui, using a framebuffer if you have it installed or gnu "less". You can also use "fmt" and "less" on low powered machines.

http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Comm...e_eBook_Reader

Code:

fmt Test.txt | less
Code:

less Test.pdf
Code:

fbgs Test.pdf
I have Knoppix 3.7 on several old computers similar to yours. KolibriOs has some cool games on it. Not my thing but cool for the kids.

rvijay 02-15-2013 03:50 PM

Thanks to all the support here so far. Here is another site I found about old computers:
http://www.old-computers.com/news/default.asp

I feel nostalgic about older PCs and have a special feeling when I use them. I had many good times with my old PCs. They served me very well. I am very glad I started this thread and learned here instead of just trashing my EXCELLENT old pc.


Due to Moore's law, it appears most folks will upgrade long before the lifespan of their PC is up. At this rate, tablet PCs will cost like 25 bucks in a few years and will be better than older PCs. Most are pressed for time these days, don't have time to test older PC with older software, learn etc., So, it is expected that most will just trash their older PCs instead of trying to use them. Sad but reality.

frieza 02-15-2013 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvijay (Post 4892552)
Thanks to all the support here so far. Here is another site I found about old computers:
http://www.old-computers.com/news/default.asp

I feel nostalgic about older PCs and have a special feeling when I use them. I had many good times with my old PCs. They served me very well. I am very glad I started this thread and learned here instead of just trashing my EXCELLENT old pc.


Due to Moore's law, it appears most folks will upgrade long before the lifespan of their PC is up. At this rate, tablet PCs will cost like 25 bucks in a few years and will be better than older PCs. Most are pressed for time these days, don't have time to test older PC with older software, learn etc., So, it is expected that most will just trash their older PCs instead of trying to use them. Sad but reality.

yep, that's exactly the point i was trying to make
i actually, up until recently, had a 286 PC with 4 megs of ram and a 10BaseT Ethernet card that could do basic web surfing with a dos-based browser called arachne, and i could play old classic dos games such as wolfenstein 3d.

sometimes people want old hardware because of nostalgia, sometimes people need the old hardware because they have specialized devices that would be TOO expensive to upgrade that aren't compatible with anything newer (yes i do know someone who has such a situation, he runs a machine shop and the software doesn't run well on anything newer than windows 98)
either way, the attitude of throwing out a perfectly working pc just because it doesn't have the flashy features of modern computers and can't do some modern tasks is incredibly stupid and i find it sickening.

rvijay 02-15-2013 05:15 PM

I agree with you. One thing I notice is that folks tend to discard older desktops when they have to move. Moves are challenging and folks try to discard what they can before they move.

rvijay 02-16-2013 05:41 AM

This thread reminded me that before the 3.5" floppies there were the 5.25" floppies.

Also, there were the pocket organizers, the Palm Pilot the HP pocket PC, earlier versions of cell phones etc., They are all gone now. So are most of the older cell phones. Similarly, the more portable the technology and more the advancements in them, lesser the price, more they will be discarded it appears. This is just reality. Folks who try to reuse stuff are very little, otherwise there will be a lot more sites dedicated to such stuff.

Also, to be sincere, this thread was one of my last efforts to get support for my old PC, if I didn't get this support, then I would have probably recycled this PC also as some here had suggested.

mjolnir 02-16-2013 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frieza (Post 4892571)
...sometimes people want old hardware because of nostalgia, sometimes people need the old hardware because they have specialized devices that would be TOO expensive to upgrade that aren't compatible with anything newer (yes i do know someone who has such a situation, he runs a machine shop and the software doesn't run well on anything newer than windows 98)...

That's cool. I wonder if your friend is using TurboCNC? not long ago I used Arachne on an antique :-) Win95/Dos laptop and my trusty old external modem to transfer a g-code file over dial-up from my XP machine to be used on TCNC in Dos for a robotics project I'm working on.

To get back on topic I still have a 386/12 megs of ram with Debian Slink on it I'm going to fire up again... one day.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...4/#post4473668

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...3/#post2617746

rvijay 02-16-2013 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjolnir (Post 4892901)
That's cool. I wonder if your friend is using TurboCNC? not long ago I used Arachne on an antique :-) Win95/Dos laptop and my trusty old external modem to transfer a g-code file over dial-up from my XP machine to be used on TCNC in Dos for a robotics project I'm working on.

To get back on topic I still have a 386/12 megs of ram with Debian Slink on it I'm going to fire up again... one day.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...4/#post4473668

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...3/#post2617746

Thanks. Lots of learning from this post.

TurboCNC:
http://www.dakeng.com/

DebianSlink:
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianSlink

As an aside, specially with mobile devices, once the battery life is over and the device can't even be used as a USB drive, then its life is over I guess.

Now I recollect, when I was very young, I have seen folks carrying punch cards they said that they used on Computers.

When I was in school, we had the IBM PS2, Vax/VMS and then the Macintosh came. There was no graphical interface in them all pretty much. However, they worked quite well. I had bought floppy disks then to use with them. We were given a one hour time limit as there was a queue to use them. I used to go to the computer center late friday evenings and early mornings on weekends as there was hardly anyone there then and we were allowed to use the computers as long as we wanted. They all didn't have the graphical interface and we could still use them quite comfortably: 1. Wordprocessing
2. Spreadsheet and 3. Usenet. These were the main programs that I used back then. If I could work without the use of graphical interface then, I must be able to do the same today with some practise, support if I came across a much older PC. By the way, back then, these computers were quite expensive.

Youtube is also good to recollect how things were back then. A picture speaks a 1000 words, a video speaks a lot more. Here is a video of a 386 PC that is still working well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMFDBxNqVQA

16Mhz 386 PC here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7YxGEG6BAQ

Win 95 Promotion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLqrpltv4UA

Unbelievable that I was considering discarding my Pentium 2 PC that is still working so amazing. With time, only the eye candy is increasing it appears when I see all these videos.

My special thanks to Peter again for this last post. I have one question: Peter do any of these OSes
have Live CDs or full install to hard drive only ?

This calls for some deep introspection.
How come, I am suggesting Linux to others, have this long thread but am not trying nCurses ?
When I look inside myself deeply, I am not theoratically dedicated to Linux. My main aim is
try and use hardware as long as possible, with as simple a linux distro as possible for now.
So, this is a practical approach.

The next point is, I have spent a lot of time in this regard, learning linux, learning older distros,
collecting old hardware, getting them up to screaming performance etc., So, I am quite exhausted.
Also, this is more of a hobby for now, rather than a Job. This limits the time greatly available
for this. However, this will be a good thing to try in the long term future if I have the time and
motivation for this. If one works for a PC Recycling company or a used IT items seller etc.,
There is certainly a wealth of info. here with practical applications.

On a different note on the economy, I said before that debtor prisons may make a come back.
Appears that they are already making a come back as per this article on the Tunnel people
in America:
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/a...ets-of-america
Such people slip under the radar and are rarely talked about and do exist. A cell phone or even a tablet
PC is very vital in such a situation to look for job or get info. on any emergency assistance being offered.
This is what I mentioned before. Even a laptop becomes heavy and not worth it in this case. We are only
as strong as our weakest point. I encourage all to read this article, it is very informative. Now
if we go thru a bailout, then this number of tunnel people will only increase by n number of times.
How does this connect to Linux ? All these people ending up homeles means more unwanted hardware.
It will be very noble, if a service was offered by a business to take their old hardware and
provide a tablet or cell phone in exchange. This will be a green solution but I don't see that
happening for the most part. The returned old PCs can be used with a Linux
live CD for those who can use it. Otherwise, these will just simply get old,
gather dust and rust somewhere.

Laptop Overheating Problem. This is a common issue with a number of easy
fixes:
http://www.howtogeek.com/67660/how-t...eating-laptop/

If you know someone with an overheating laptop, suggest this link and try
to assist them sincerely. Chances are usually tho, they don't wish to do
anything with it anymore, at that time you can ask for it.

Also, came across another interesting distro for older machines:
http://crunchbang.org/

Wow, every time I feel everything has been covered here, something new comes up.

Article: IT work in Prison:
http://tinyurl.com/78es9dn

If one goes to debt prison in future they maybe sent to do IT work in prison.
Better use Linux on older PC and be debt free, than buy new PC etc., on
credit card. Also, from the article, it is evident that a lot of PCs come there,
atleast it is good that these are not discarded immediately. Hope, they use
Linux there. These are mostly business PCs I feel.

Anger and IT Stuff
It is best not to be close to IT stuff when angry.
They can cause serious injuries as they are heavy.
Stay away from PCs if angry. This is what I do.
A thrown desktop PC if it hits a person can cause serious
injury or even death.
Some interesting related links:
http://tinyurl.com/d7sqw5w
http://tinyurl.com/bl8pfyu
Facebook page for those who feel like throwing their PC
out of window:
http://tinyurl.com/cmywq7b
Quote on Throwing PC:
http://tinyurl.com/cuwhpha

Specially, saying this here as some get angry with older PCs
and their related issues. If you know someone who says this
about their PC, ask them if they will give it to you, if they
do, then take it.

Personally, for me an older PC is an amazing experience.
I almost feel it saying, please take me, care for me
and use me. I will work very nicely for you as I did the
first day. My P3 Tower is giving me amazing performance.

Reiser:
At one point I was eagerly looking to use the Reiserfs system and then decided not to.
Here is a wiki article on Hans Reiser:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser
Technical Interview with Reiser:
http://kerneltrap.org/node/5654
The above articles are interesting reads. Several may have given up on the
Reiserfs system mainly due to lack of consistent support I feel.

Today is a very grey, wet, snowy day outside with warning of
ice pellets.

My P3 Tower PC was making a wierd noise and now the floppy disk is not
mounting. Will have to look into this. I tried another floppy
disk and it didn't work either. Interesting, appears this floppy
drive itself has got damaged. Will have to reboot PC and see what
happens. Rebooting PC didn't help, the turning noise made by floppy
drive on boot is now absent. The green LED on it goes on during
boot or when I try to mount it with: mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy
The above process continues constantly and never stops.
Also, clicking on the floppy icon gives the message:
Failed to execute child process "/root/.pup_event/drive_fd0/AppRun" (No such file or directory)

Now, I can only try to test further by removing this floppy drive,
putting it another PC and trying another floppy drive on this PC.
However, it is too much work and I am almost convinced that this
floppy drive is gone. This is one thing with older PCs, some parts
will fail with time. This is just one post after I wrote that this
P3 Tower is giving amazing performance. Funny but still not a disaster. :)

frieza 02-16-2013 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvijay (Post 4892963)
Now I recollect, when I was very young, I have seen folks carrying punch cards they said that they used on Computers.

When I was in school, we had the IBM PS2, Vax/VMS and then the Macintosh came. There was no graphical interface in them all pretty much. However, they worked quite well. I had bought floppy disks then to use with them. We were given a one hour time limit as there was a queue to use them. I used to go to the computer center late friday evenings and early mornings on weekends as there was hardly anyone there then and we were allowed to use the computers as long as we wanted. They all didn't have the graphical interface and we could still use them quite comfortably: 1. Wordprocessing
2. Spreadsheet and 3. Usenet. These were the main programs that I used back then. If I could work without the use of graphical interface then, I must be able to do the same today with some practise, support if I came across a much older PC. By the way, back then, these computers were quite expensive.

Youtube is also good to recollect how things were back then. A picture speaks a 1000 words, a video speaks a lot more. Here is a video of a 386 PC that is still working well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMFDBxNqVQA

16Mhz 386 PC here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7YxGEG6BAQ

Win 95 Promotion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLqrpltv4UA

Unbelievable that I was considering discarding my Pentium 2 PC that is still working so amazing. With time, only the eye candy is increasing it appears when I see all these videos.

believable, but sad, i myself used a Pentium 1 with redhat 6.2 as a file server alongside a pentium III (and even then, there were newer machines available), it finally died about a year before i bought my quad core AMD machine.

the beauty of Linux is, it does not rely on BIOS for drive geometry, so as long as your kernel is in a /BOOT partition in say.. the first 256 Megs of the drive, you can have a 500+ GIG drive attached to a 386 or 486 and use it as a file server.
who's gonna want to hack into a machine with such low power, like it would do them any good on a botnet?

rvijay 02-16-2013 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frieza (Post 4893011)
believable, but sad, i myself used a Pentium 1 with redhat 6.2 as a file server alongside a pentium III (and even then, there were newer machines available), it finally died about a year before i bought my quad core AMD machine.

the beauty of Linux is, it does not rely on BIOS for drive geometry, so as long as your kernel is in a /BOOT partition in say.. the first 256 Megs of the drive, you can have a 500+ GIG drive attached to a 386 or 486 and use it as a file server.
who's gonna want to hack into a machine with such low power, like it would do them any good on a botnet?

Good point. Atleast your PC was well used before it died. Didn't you try to get parts for it ? Also, which part of it died ?

As an aside, I am a simple, small home user, have no printer even. So I have no personal reason to run a server.

frieza 02-16-2013 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvijay (Post 4893019)
Good point. Atleast your PC was well used before it died. Didn't you try to get parts for it ? Also, which part of it died ?

As an aside, I am a simple, small home user, have no printer even. So I have no personal reason to run a server.

the motherboard, i accidentally killed it (forgot that AT power supplies don't completely shut off without flipping the switch and pulled out a PCI card with it still switched on, magic blue smoke ensued, though it didn't die immediatly i still somehow got another year or two even after that).

rvijay 02-16-2013 09:55 AM

I found useful articles on how to get free, older PCs. Folks must be really dumping them:

http://www.recycles.org/computer/donation/free

http://techtips.salon.com/can-comput...ter-12066.html

This article gives an idea about the amount of eWaste.
http://thelastoutpost.com/video-4/te...puters-go.html

snowday 02-16-2013 10:29 AM

Speaking personally for myself, the reason I do not use anything Pentium 4 or older is that I was able to get Windows-Vista era dual-core hardware for free from relatives and friends who were upgrading to Windows 7 machines. Now that Windows 8 is catching on, I'm sure lots of people will be selling at a low price or giving away for free their Windows 7 machines.

In other words I consider it a waste of my time to use old, slow hardware when a free upgrade is available to me. I understand that not everyone might have this luxury (although you might be surprised if you look around) so I have utmost respect for people who are stuck with older hardware and find creative ways to extend its lifespan---kudos for starting this discussion, it's an interesting read. Even people with newer hardware can benefit from the idea of running more efficient and less resource-demanding software. :)

rvijay 02-16-2013 10:40 AM

Looking from the other perspective tho, if folks didn't keep on upgrading software/hardware and kept on using their older PCs just a few hours a day until it died, then there will be many folks without jobs, most stores we know today will not exist and this is not good either. Also, there will be fewer stores selling PCs that are much slower at far higher prices. So, where is the balance ? It will be good to have a nice system in place to recycle older PCs very efficiently.

The folks who know me personally, have told me that the way I use my PC, it will last for ever and there is no need for me to upgrade mine.

rvijay 02-16-2013 10:54 AM

Debian older Distros. Debian slink is not even available anymore !! With time, the older OSes are expected to disappear from the net, specially if no one downloads them anymore.
http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#old

NyteOwl 02-16-2013 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvijay (Post 4892874)
This thread reminded me that before the 3.5" floppies there were the 5.25" floppies.

Also, there were the pocket organizers, the Palm Pilot the HP pocket PC, earlier versions of cell phones etc., They are all gone now. So are most of the older cell phones. Similarly, the more portable the technology and more the advancements in them, lesser the price, more they will be discarded it appears. This is just reality. Folks who try to reuse stuff are very little, otherwise there will be a lot more sites dedicated to such stuff.

Also, to be sincere, this thread was one of my last efforts to get support for my old PC, if I didn't get this support, then I would have probably recycled this PC also as some here had suggested.

And before 5.25" there were 8" floppies, punch cards (still have some in the basement), paper tape ... :)

And I still use my Palm Pilot. It's a nice shirt pocket sized password safe and e-reader. It does e-mail in a pinch too :)

My old 8088 is still in use too :)

Another site that may be of interest to some: http://www.obsolyte.com

rvijay 02-16-2013 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NyteOwl (Post 4893140)
And before 5.25" there were 8" floppies, punch cards (still have some in the basement), paper tape ... :)

And I still use my Palm Pilot. It's a nice shirt pocket sized password safe and e-reader. It does e-mail in a pinch too :)

My old 8088 is still in use too :)

Another site that may be of interest to some: http://www.obsolyte.com

Thanks for that site. Impressive that you are still using your older PC and Palm Pilot.

The earliest PC I have seen on sale these days is a 1Ghz machine. I was wondering why I don't see too many old PCs trashed in Montreal. There are good commercial and nonprofit erecycling services here. I am sure they help a lot.

It will help to have a dedicated USB stick with software for older PCs, Manuals and How to tips, forums/groups online that assist with this, etc., Also, need to practice using these on an older PC. That way, when the need arises to use an older PC, it will not be a huge challenge.

Based on more research on the net, it is expected that most oldest PC to be sold currently will be about 1Gz CPU on average. (Even this will change in the next few years.) Anything else older is mostly disposed off by now, it is evident that several cities have considered ewaste and put systems in place to handle this. More Oses for older PCs will likely disappear down the road also. We may see more emulators tho of older PCs.

Very few PCs Older than a Pentium III are expected to be with folks gathering dust. Those few that remain are most likely being used, the remaining few being kept for sentimental reasons.

Helpful Summary for this thread:

This thread has taught me few basic stuff so far:
1. The older OSes are ok, it is more about using the right boot options and xsetup so that the OS works ok in the graphical interface.
2. It helps to keep an older PC updated promptly, resolve any issues and keep extra copies of the OS, applications etc.,
3. Revise using this PC every 6 months, look for any related updates on net etc.,
4. Be on lookout for cheap hardware upgrades and make use of them when available. This will also help if something fails, specially the power supply.
5. Assist others with older PCs to get better use from them.
6. DL and try using different OSes for older PCs. Don't relay on just one OS.
7. Keep a file with notes on any issues encountered, how they were solved, vital tips etc., Keep a printout of this file and also burn this file to CD/DVD.
8. Keep in touch with others who use such older PCs or start a forum, email list for this.
9. Retrocomputing - When folks are using such old PCs, it shouldn't be an issue to use PCs just a decade or so old.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrocomputing
10. If it really becomes junk and doesn't work, there here are some tips on how to let go of sentiments and declutter:
http://www.azcentral.com/style/hfe/decor/a...purge.html
I admit that I am sentimentally attached to this PC and from net can see that several others are also.
11. Minimalistic Computing:
For most basic routine tasks, older PCs are still ok. A very fast, latest PC is not needed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimalist_computing

Older Distros for older PCs:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/25559...rn_server.html
Slitaz Linux
Puppy Linux
http://hackaday.com/2011/08/19/insta...ld-pcs-part-2/

http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#old

http://www.pcworld.com/article/25559...rn_server.html


Links about older PCs:
http://www.obsolyte.com
http://www.old-computers.com/news/default.asp

http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/10...-old-computer/



Useful articles on how to get free, older PCs. Folks must be really dumping them:

http://www.recycles.org/computer/donation/free

http://techtips.salon.com/can-comput...ter-12066.html

This article gives an idea about the amount of eWaste.
http://thelastoutpost.com/video-4/te...puters-go.html

http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/10...-old-computer/

Related Tips:
It will help to have a dedicated USB stick with software for older PCs, Manuals and How to tips, forums/groups online that assist with this, etc., Also, need to practice using these on an older PC. That way, when the need arises to use an older PC, it will not be a huge challenge.

frieza 02-17-2013 08:03 PM

very nice and well thought out there

on a side note, computers aren't the only things worth keeping, i myself still have one of these puppies http://imprint.printmag.com/wp-conte...oads/we161.jpg

and an eight track player, both still work ^^

rvijay 02-17-2013 09:43 PM

It appears we are made to think that old stuff is no longer used/needed and the new things are needed. Floppy disk is one such and still several are using them as per this article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8651750.stm

There is a place for new tech. However, use of old must not be silently discouraged. I am sad now that I threw away all my floppy disks. They could have been used to run floppy Linux atleast.

k3lt01 02-17-2013 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvijay (Post 4892874)
This thread reminded me that before the 3.5" floppies there were the 5.25" floppies.

Funny you mention that. I have an old 5.25" floppy with a RP Game (Demons Winter) on it that I used to play back in the early 1990s. It was a good game but I stopped playing it when my dad's old PC gave up and I have not been able to locate a working 5.25" drive so I could save the game and play it on a FreeDOS partition I have on another laptop.

rvijay 02-17-2013 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3lt01 (Post 4894101)
Funny you mention that. I have an old 5.25" floppy with a RP Game (Demons Winter) on it that I used to play back in the early 1990s. It was a good game but I stopped playing it when my dad's old PC gave up and I have not been able to locate a working 5.25" drive so I could save the game and play it on a FreeDOS partition I have on another laptop.

You encouraged me to look a bit further. Here is how someone can convert an old PC into a Retro Arcade game machine:
http://scottjarvis.com/page105.htm#c470

Getting the following and adding them to the OLD PC USB drive is a good idea:
FreeDOS
http://www.freedos.org/download/

System Rescue CD:
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?dis...n=systemrescue

PartedMagic
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?dis...on=partedmagic

FreeNAS:
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=freenas

Some fun is also needed in life. This will also help use the PC for gaming (Depends certainly on age of PC). Linux gamers:
http://live.linux-gamers.net/
System Requirements
* intel x86-compatible architecture
* 512 MB RAM
* videocard with 3d acceleration

I installed an old ethernet card I found in this PC. After that it will not boot and makes a very loud beeping noise. I removed the ethernet card and it didn't help. The PC powers on though. One Ram module had come a bit loose, I installed this properly but it didn't help either.

Related link I found on net:
http://www.daniweb.com/hardware-and-...es-help-please

This desktop does power on though. Any suggestions welcome, since everything else seems to work, I am hoping it is not the motherboard.

This has taught me another thing, to accept the fate of things. All electronic items, no matter how well handled, will die sooner or later.

TobiSGD 02-19-2013 05:22 AM

Check the count and frequency of the beeps, they are error codes: http://www.computerhope.com/beep.htm

rvijay 02-19-2013 06:12 AM

I tried reinstalling all the RAM again. This time it booted ok. The network card has two lights called Link and Act. The Link light lights up when the cable is plugged in. Not the act light. Same issue with Slitaz Linux. Replugging the cable didn't help. The card is D-Link, I tried to load the driver for the D-Link modem in Puppy but it still didn't work. Wondering if this card can be too old.

Need to try these on this PC. Will try next time I boot it:
Run this command: lspci -nn

Is your NIC detected?

Then run: lspci -k

Also try
uname -r
depmod -a
modprobe (module)

Look in the folder /lib/modules/2.6.31.14/kernel/drivers/net for the file (module).ko

I had this for 17 years ago approx.: Royal DM70nx Organizer
Found this today at home and started using it. Still works, just needs 3 CR2032 batteries. Glad I started this thread, now thinking what else old stuff I have at home that can still be used or given to others. It is not a biggie if this gets lost or breaks down compared to an ipod touch etc., which are a lot more heavier and more expensive.

On eBay Pentium II PCs of the type I have are still going for about 100 to 150 bucks. So, it is vital to search in different places to get an idea of value and use of older products. Lastly, the stores that sell used PCs locally are having just CD readers for ODD and NOT CD writer. So, if one gets a used PC like this and then upgrades, it will add up to the cost. So this PC is still quite a good deal, besides it is teaching me a lot of stuff.

frieza 02-19-2013 12:05 PM

as the saying goes, one man's trash is another mans' treasure

rvijay 02-19-2013 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frieza (Post 4895270)
as the saying goes, one man's trash is another mans' treasure

Yes, very correct. I am quite surprised to still find that there is a niche market for these old products, folks are buying and using them.

This OS is also good for Pentium 2 PCs and beyond it appears. Only thing is net is not configured automatically, they say it will be configured auto in the future versions:
http://www.swiftlinux.org/index.php/About

The next thing to mostly be abandoned are: mp3 players, USB flash drives, tablet PCs and eReaders as far better ones are coming out all the time. However, one doesn’t see too many of these being givenup online on freecycle etc., Perhaps it is better to ask in advance in these places, also spread info. via word of mouth and offer something in exchange if such items are given. Then perhaps with time, more of these things that are gathering dust will be discovered. One good thing to offer would be all the ISOs for old PCs, rescue disks etc., on one convenient DVD along with all the manuals on it. This will interest atleast a few folks.

One of the things I saw being discarded a lot was CRT TVs after the digital TV came into effect, this was several months ago. Must keep an eye out for what is being discarded, network with folks who like to upgrade often, develop a relationship with them and help them whenever they wish to get rid of stuff. Sometimes this can even be certain groups of people, students for eg., who are going to move.

All this is in keeping with frugal living that I have learned at:
frugalliving.about.com
stretcher.com

A great site for mp3 players is: anythingbutipod.com - Even here I read a long time ago in one of the articles or posts that mp3 players are usually upgraded way before their lifespan as a newer version becomes available. Since, we don’t see too many of these being given away or sold used, it is safe to assume that most are gathering dust or are discarded with time. For my part, I have never really tried to sell used items. I found it better to give them away or throw them in the past. Will be an interesting experience to try and sell them online.

Presently, this thread also encouraged me to DL several other linux distros. I heard in news yesterday that PS4 is being released and will cost 500 bucks or so. This encouraged me to DL the full DVD version of the Linux Gamers. Also, DL of swiftlinux for older PCs amd NetBSD. Getting backbox for security and Xubuntu as today’s PC will be an older PC 6 years or so from today.

Lastly, I have an USB old hard drive 100Gb. This is a great one to store linux distros on. I can use it for this. I was thinking why must I learn more about Linux and tackle issues once I have a working distro. By tackling problems and using different distros one gets better experience for the future. Besides, being a learning experience, this can be looked at as a puzzle, if it is done all at the same time, then it is overwhelming. However, if it is done a little at a time over the course of a few weeks or even months, then it is much more manageable and becomes less demanding.

I have discarded optical media before, now learning to use them. 101 things to do with old CDs/DVDs:
http://www.hintsandthings.co.uk/musichall/cdroms.htm

Need to learn exponentially from this thread. Basically predict the life cycle of technology, its environment, uses and when it will be replaced by new stuff. Also, brain storm to use this once it is abandoned or even before when it goes on sale. Who knows, perhaps this can even become a business some day. Custom installed Linux PCs, with a whole bunch of OSes on DVDs, bootable Flash Drive, Gutenberg eBooks, art, some free music, audiobooks and other goodies.

Here is another interesting thing I learned from here. How to prepare ISO to USB instructions:
http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=23267

I remain very simple, humble, thankful for any assistance, open and willing to learn. Please don’t hesitate to share anything related here. Thanks in advance.

Sharing a deep article about Linux on older PCs:
http://linux.about.com/od/commands/l/blnewbie1_2.htm

Here is yet another interesting article on recycling PCs:
http://www.geekwire.com/2012/rewind-...ters-basement/
In that part of the city alone about 1000 PCs are given per week. They use windows on these recycled PCs. Only about 50% can be reused. If they used Linux, then I am almost sure that they can recycle a lot more PCs. However, as most end users are not familiar with Linux, this may pose some challenges.

On a different note, here in Canada there were articles in media saying due to poor economy, retail sales are down 2% last december, specially electronics were hit it was said in a radio news. Challenging economy may encourage folks to recycle stuff more.

An older PC is also good to learn about servers and networking two PCs.

Reading this manual is also a good learning experience:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/

Based on this thread alone, I don't think I will ever buy a new PC again, unless it is a terrific deal for 50 to 100 bucks. I will mostly try to get used PCs and recycle them with Linux.


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