Is Slackware worth learning?
 

I was just on an irc channel asking about Slackware, which I just installed, and they started bashing it saying its completely worthless. In 2010 is it still a good OS to use if learning about OS guts?

I have another system which I use when I need to get stuff done, so its not like I can't deal with any system issues that may arise.

Tell me what you think.

Since you specifically mentioned learning about the guts of the OS - yes - Slackware will be an excellent tool for you.

As far as the people you were talking to go, generalisations like "completely worthless" without specific examples of the problems they were having say more about their state of mind than the state of Slackware

Who said that ?!? I bet those who said that have never done serious work with their computing machines!

I have several systems which I use when I need to get things done - and they all run Slackware! I also maintain several systems for wife and kids which are a mix of work, play and educational - all Slackware.

Worth learning? Slackeware is t-h-e most "worth" learning.

YES

Well mainly, they said it was worthless because of the absence of a package manager. I am currently cleaning up the system since there is a bunch of applications I don't need. But the fact that I have to do it manually makes it "worthless" according to them.

Slackware has a package manager - you! And I do not mean that to be sarcastic.

Slackware does not have a dependency checking package manager, but that is a FEATURE, not something missing!

There are many threads here on LQ on that subject, but by not having a dependency checking package manager Slackware allows you to keep tons of garbage and useless cruft off your system without breaking it! It also allows you to EASILY install new software without installing 4GB of mostly unrelated garbage which just happens to be marked as a dependency of some minor package.

They know not of what they speak...

There is a common misconception that Slackware is ancient and uses ancient software. While some may have had valid arguments on why they would not have used an out-of-the-box Slackware 11.0, a lot has changed since then, and most of the software shipped with Slackware is fairly current. Any other argument against Slackware would have to do with either package management or configuration. On the configuration front, it's a personal choice -- some prefer editing text files, others prefer a graphical tool to edit text files for them. On the package management side, it's a different philosophy that just doesn't appeal to a lot of GNU/Linux users. However, to call it worthless is certainly silly. I can do everything in Slackware that I could do in any other distribution. It may not be as easy, depending on the task, but it can be done. Thus, the definition of 'worthless' does not apply; you are still using GNU/Linux, and aside from administrative practices it acts nearly identically to any other GNU/Linux distro available in terms of usability once everything is set up.

Those who call Slackware worthless will never change their minds. They are certainly entitled to their opinion, and I think their views on simplicity versus ease of use differ from those of Slackware users. In the end, Slackware is just another GNU/Linux distribution, with notably different philosophies than many others. If you prefer Slackware's philosophies, great; have fun. If not, then you can join the herd and go with any number of other distributions. No one here is going to think less of you if you do (well, maybe some will, but they shouldn't); alternatively, if you do enjoy using Slackware, there are many here that would be more than willing to help you out with any problems you may encounter.

Thats what they said too, followed by their opinions. Thanks for the detailed posts. I know Slackware is less user-friendly but I am glad to see there are people to help out.

Thanks!

You will spend hours at a Slackware machine oblivious to the world because finally, you will become aware of the speed and simplicity of Slackware, and you will be immensely enjoying the Slackware experience. Just ask my wife! :)

I switched to Slackware spefically "to learn". I switched to linux for something new and the distros (Ubuntu and Mandriva) I started with, while fine in their own right, both seemed slow, and after a month or so I realized what I was learning was just a couple of different sets of GUI configuration tools. With Slackware you pretty well have to learn something about how the system operates.

I won't lie, my first month with Slackware was a little strained, but at the end of that month I suddenly realized that Slackware was the easiest OS I had ever used. It's true that installing and removing packages isn't a matter of searching with apt or urpmi, but instead I use sbopkg. And while it's true that the packages I install are compiled locally which takes some time depending on the package, I've definitely come to see that as a BIG advantage and a feature. It's definitely not anything lacking. I think the average Slackware user is a little shocked when test driving other distros and clicking one package suddenly requires 6 more packages, almost everytime.

And as far as configuration goes, I never had 100% success with any graphical configuration tool, and ultimately found myself hand editing the underlying text file anyway, it's just with Slackware it's always a much simpler thing to do because:

Slackware is generally a simpler design
There are no graphical tools making assumptions
The developers haven't made any assumptions for me
The Slackware community, while smaller, also tends to be very knowlegeable and willing to help.

LOL, yeah that too.

no, Slackware is like getting a bone-stock 1965 Mustang that YOU
have to hop-up (or not) and turn into your hot-rod
your expected to know/learn how to fix it, how to adjust it
and how to get it running fast
thats Slackware

Wait, how are you cleaning it up manually? There are a package management commands that does it automatically the way you expect; installpkg, removepkg, upgradepkg, pkgtool.

On the other hand, I have found it harder to remove cruft from other distros because their higher number of dependencies. Because slackware is lean and doesn't normally need dependency tracking, you might find it easier to clean up unwanted applications than a default install from other distros that have those fancy package managers to manage the mess.

Hi,

Actually I like the analogy of driving a vehicle. You learn to drive a stick shift and then find a vehicle with an automatic. Get yourself into a ditch with that automatic an see how well you get out of the ditch. At least with the stick I can get the vehicle rocking and hopefully out with minor effort. Sometimes you may need a wrecker but why if the neighbor has a tractor. Help is just like that here on LQ.

Or you could fire that chauffeur for getting you into the ditch! :)

Sure you can get that hold your hand distribution and get up an running. But when something goes wrong, then who's going to help you. Sure we don't discriminate here at LQ but my point is the knowing of the intricacy for the OS will help to solve your issues.

Most haters of anything are just echoing someone Else's poor understanding. Sometimes it's just plain laziness, do it for me!

I don't wanna hold your hand! But I will steer you hopefully in the right direction(s).

"Knowledge is of two kinds. We Know a subject ourselves, or we know where we can find information upon it."- Samuel Johnson
:hattip:

Which IRC channel was it? :D

10 year Debian veteran, switched to Slackware a few months ago.
Your question should be: "Is anything BUT Slackware worth learning"

I don't think that Debian is a "hold your hand distribution", but anyways, I just set up a Slackware-Installation, and whoa, this is really different. I will for sure take deeper look into it. First thing I have to learn is how package management works without automated dependency-checking. Will cost a good amount of time, but I think it is worth it.

Read this.

I should also mention slackpkg,Slackbuilds.org, and sbopkg.

Honestly...Slackware transitioned me to a much more comfortable place with linux in general.

Thanks for all the posts guys.
Heres a problem, don't know if I should make a new thread or not..

I was working at the shell and was trying some different commands with their help function. ex cat --help
typed in command "cat"
got stuck in a weird loop. blank screen I could type on, but no (watchamacallit) (blah@blah:~$)
Had to hard reset it. Now when I boot up I get this error:

I login as root or my regular user, and I cannot startx.

I'll post that error message as soon as I can get it. It keeps rebooting on me.

EDIT:

Startx>>>

Ctrl+c would have gotten you back to the prompt.

You could have also hit Ctrl+Alt+Delete to issue a reboot (which shouldn't have caused filesystem problems).

By hard-rebooting it looks like you've messed up your filesystem one way or another. You'll need to run fsck like the error message says to fix it.

I haven't used Slackware in years, but using the word worthless is a telling statement on their part. Ubuntu(which I currently use), and a few others have stood on the shoulders of Slackware to achieve what they are today.

If you learn Slackware you will learn Linux.

I give little value in those kinds of statements. A well thought out argument is worlds apart from the mindless sounds bites of "worthless", "useless", etc.

You need to run fsck to fix a broken filesystem it sounds like. From the prompt you get brought to, try typing to see if the partition containing / is mounted. If not try If the partition is mounted it's likely you won't be able to unmount it so try booting with your installation disk and running fsck making sure that the disk is unmounted first.

Someone else may have another idea. As was stated above, try not to just pull power, use ctrl +alt +bakspc and ctrl +alt +del. On my headless/keyboardless system it's set so that pressing reset(rather than holding it for 5 seconds) actually triggers a normal shutdown. I've also had this happen when using ext4. I've since gone to ext3 just because I heard it might be a little more resilient. Thus far it has been, but I may have just been unlucky when I was on ext4.

Ok, after reviewing the play, it has been determined that the previous question asked was no good and will not be receiving the extra point.

--Dumb question. Completely over sighted that. Hope that doesn't count as my get out of jail free card.

Edit: Damgar. got it fixed, but good stuff.

Btw, all the helpful hints you guys are giving me.. I am making notes..

Yes,

Once you learn slackware you will probably never go back, but even if you do it will make it much easier to learn a new distribution than the other way around, IMO :).

Which IRC channel was it? yea... tell us and we send round JR Dobbs with a brick... LOL

If anyone tells you slackware is "completely worthless", they obviously have never tried it. You shouldn't let others tell you what to think, I never do. I wouldn't consider any Linux distro completely worthless (even tho Ubuntu gets pretty close).

I cut my teeth on IRIX - and I use Slack 13 at home on my old thinkpad and at work on my dell desktop. I also have several Slackware64 production servers running ASE15 which have replaced the Owicle/Slowaris 890s we had before. Slackware Linux runs ASE like lightening on 380G5s - btw...

All I can say in response is that if you learn Slackware, then you are ready for all other distributions, because you wont need other distros special GUIs to do anything, you will bypass it all from the command line and impress any numpty mouse pushers in view. IMHO dont listen to people who make sweeping generalisations like that. Try it, I dont think you will be disappointed.

network - idlemonkeys

channel- #idlemonkeys

users- yakbak and joker

"<Bull3t> What is the default pkg manager on a slackware install.
<Yakbak> none?
<Yakbak> lol

<Yakbak> who uses slackware these days
<Bull3t> we have had this discussion before
<Joker> slackware doesn't have a package manager
<Joker> thats it's major flaw
<Bull3t> fk..
<Joker> it's package manager is... you

<Yakbak> get away from slackware
<Joker> and all sorts of other places
<Yakbak> and use a better distro
<Joker> I recommend you try fedora or ubuntu or something
<Bull3t> thanks for help yakbak.
<Yakbak> that was my advice from the start
<Bull3t> I use Ubuntu as well..
<Yakbak> slackware will just mess you up
<Joker> slackware just sucks"

lol, their names are so ... appropriate.

charlatans <Joker> and <Yakbak> I bet they were using their favourite system... Vista, I will give their names to JR Dobbs,he will sort them out... LOL

Good grief. I seldom post here because the level of expertise here is so high, it's not necessary. But after seeing those two guys dumping on a venerable distribution like Slackware, I gotta say something.

There is a normal progression of distributions for many Linux users. I started with Mandrake, which was probaby the easiest at the time. No regrets, but after a while I wanted to try something new so I tried Debian. I used it for a year or two, then tried Slackware and found I liked it better. That was a few years ago. I suspect a lot of Slackers progress this way. It sounds like those two guys are at the beginning of the progression, maybe stuck there.

BTW, I'm not an expert at Linux. It's not necessary to be one to use Slackware. It is worth learning and using. Give it a test drive and you might want to take it home. :)

well tack kde I can use the gui configuration tool and spend a lot of time walking the tree in the gui to find what I want to change
OR
I can open a configuration file in a editor and change what I want in a fraction of the time
it would tack hunting around in the gui tool for what I want to change

what if
something breaks X your stuck with reinstalling to fix it because you have become dependent on gui configuration tools in the other distros

with slackware the odds of becoming dependent on gui configuration tools is almost nonresistance

this is the last place on the internet to find an objective opinion about slackware here you will find skackware lovers

Bull3t, did you ask the two IRC chatters if they would be OK with you posting that here? It is considered poor form to spread personal chats elsewhere I'm sure...
Linus Torvalds on his favourite distro:
I'm not sure I agree with your natural progression theory. Some end up liking the dirty gritty distributions like Slackware, but others who are just as proficient as your average Slacker might prefer something else. It depends on your philosophies and preferences alone, not skill level. Just my opinion, of course.

@OP: Something tells me that you are lighter than a duck and therefore we should burn you

I'm a witch? crap. thought you'd never guess.


I'd agree the numbers of users is dwindling because it is harder to learn about editing all the config files than to just use some program that costs 10 bucks and will maybe fix everything.

The best thing to do is ignore everybody else's opinions, for and against. Try it and make your own mind up.

I tried Slackware back in '96/'97 then went back to Windows. In 2009 I started with Slackware again and stuck with it. I wish I would have stuck with it in '96/'97.

I've tried a few other distros and it just didn't work for me. Once you learn Slackware, you don't need any other distros because you end up doing it the Slackware way anyways.

I've tried most of the distros, redhat, debian, ubuntu, mandrake, LFS, slackware. For what it's worth, slackware is the fastest to install and setup, easiest to keep clean, most stable of the bunch. If all you want to do is install applications over and over, then uninstall them, then install another one then no, slackware probably isn't for you.

It's been my experience when introducing people to linux in general, they invariably ignore almost all the applications that are included. Which is to say, they don't realise that many if not all distros are pretty complete already and don't require the user to go and find(puchase) their own applications to get things done. In fact most distros come with multiple email clients, multiple web browser, multiple text(insert any format here) editors. The first question I get asked is "where do I get programs for this" to which I usually can answer depending on what "this" is, that there's already 5 or more applications installed to do that.

Slackware for the win! :)

I get the feeling that those two Slackware-bashers would just as easily do the same with Debian. Slackware and Debian are what everything else is based off of, except Fedora which is RedHat. Their mindset pretty much gives them away: "Fedora has new stuff all the time", though I bet they won't tell you how much grief running such a bleeding-edge distro REALLY gives them. Dare I say even Slackware-Current would give someone much less grief than Fedora labeled as stable? :D

Slackware is great for learning GNU/Linux. Not only you get to see and work with a vanilla Linux kernel but you also get to see almost all the other applications just the way their developers designed and configured them, in an environment that gives you a complete working OS with no assumptions about its future use. At first, administering Slackware may seem like you have to do chores, but that will go away once you start scripting. And then you will realize that your scripts are much, much better than those written by people at [name a guified distro] (and that in spite of the fact that those people are really good at what they do) because your scripts do exactly what you need, and nothing else.

Hi,

Would you mind defining the vanilla Linux Kernel statement? Please structure the sentences a bit since the original gave me a headache trying to read for understanding.

I don't see a vanilla kernel defined anywhere in the above.

:hattip:

I personally wouldn't consider this a personal chat if it was in a public IRC channel but that is just me. This isn't any different then quoting Linus on this forum from a different source in my opinion.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vanilla#Adjective

I was using it in a 3rd sense, meaning, more or less, "upstream". I was under an impression that the Slackware team does not modify the kernel they get from the upstream as much as a lot of other distributions. Something I read somewhere, so may be I am wrong.

To the OP: Yes. Slackware is worth learning. You will gain a deeper understanding of how an operating system works under the hood. No damn GUIs needed. :)

***posted from my Vista box at work***

Linus consented to be interviewed for public consumption...

No, they weren't asked, and I still stay in the chat and talk to them. They do help me out occasionally with linux but as soon as I brought up Slackware then they started bashing it. I'm sure if I would have kept the convo going then they would have said a lot more but I had work to do..

You are joking, aren't you?

He's got one thing right: my sentence structure was pretty atrocious ;)

For me, learning and using slackware was one of the most worthwhile things I've done.