An Appeal to the Moderator Team
 

I just want to propose, assuming the interest of the moderating team in fairness to all members, that you allow "General" threads to live, regardless of their controversial nature (short of direct personal attack, blatent profanity, and the like).

Specifically, moving all "religious" threads to "Rank your Religiosity," in effect censors and leaves out all mature Christians, who would neither take it upon themselves to "rank" their own "religiousness," nor quite honestly regard a thread by that title. Please reconsider your fairness in this regard.

Look at the LQ Social Groups, there is one for Christians where you can discuss your faith with no interference from us blasphemers. :)

No offense, but that's more like segregation. I actually like being around unbelievers too. I don't really see things as religious and secular. These are life issues pertaining to everyone.

Ok...I'll bite.
They already DO let general threads 'live'...can you not see them, even the very old ones??
Bit of a logic-disconnect here:

• Moving (merging) threads doesn't 'censor' or edit anything. Similar/identical threads are merged all the time in EVERY forum on this site, why should this one be different?
• If 'mature Christians' won't regard that thread by the title...it's amusing that you, yourself, post in it.

Also, why did you feel the need to post a public comment to the moderators at all, and why in the "General" category?? There is the "LQ Suggestions & Feedback" forum, specifically for this. If you wanted to send a direct comment to the moderators, you can click "Contact Us" at the bottom of every page, or private-message ANY of the moderators directly.

Please don't wonder why many consider you a troll here. There is a forum for what you want to discuss, and when you post off-topic items in forums where it doesn't belong, that's not a good thing.

And to be very clear, these aren't 'life issues pertaining to everyone'. The reason? Religion isn't a part of everyone's life, is it? Which brings us back to posting things where it's not appropriate, etc. You're a christian? Great...if anyone asks, feel free to regale them with stories and testimonies. Otherwise, can you please stay on topic???

If you haven't noticed, every thread I post here having to do with faith is merged to the "mega-religion," thread, so it's not as if I have another option, except to shut-up.

Also, why did you feel the need to post a public comment to the moderators at all, and why in the "General" category?? There is the "LQ Suggestions & Feedback" forum, specifically for this. If you wanted to send a direct comment to the moderators, you can click "Contact Us" at the bottom of every page, or private-message ANY of the moderators directly.[/QUOTE]

This is not a request, but an appeal, which I think should be public.

Identical threads are usually closed or merged so as to keep the discussion in one place. Censorship would involve us deleting the thread and your account and denying that you were ever here. There is, believe it or not, a subtle difference.

As you are Suggesting a change to LQ, in essence, providing us with real Feedback on this issue, I have moved your thread to a more appropriate place.

Oh, so faith is "less general," and a lesser part of "everyone's life," than, just as one example, marijuana?

I doubt that there is an issue with anyone noticing a religion post - there are, after all, almost 4000 posts in that thread. LQ is not a religious forum, the Genereal forum is simply a place to have off-topic and (broadly speaking) less moderated chat. However, judging by the number of threads started by you that we have merged in to the megathread (and the megathreads are designed for just this), you would rather flood General with a multitude or plethora of random religion chat?

In the same way that non-technical Windows threads join their brethren in the megathread dedicated to that OS, religion threads will sit with their friends in their own area.

I think the main problem here is that it is impossible to stay on topic and flame-free when discussing such things. I agree with moving such things into one mega thread full of flame and plenty off-topic.

My only complaint is that although there is a religion and M$ megathread, I don't know of any politics megathread. I won't bother starting one tho, I want to say away from it.

Second time you've mentioned this, and I still fail to see your point. Would you care to make it plain, since I'm missing it?? Are you implying that I'm pro-marijuana? Have I done or said ANYTHING to lead you to that conclusion?

Again, it is MY opinion that LinuxQuestions should be about LINUX. But, this is not my board, and the moderators do an outstanding job of keeping off-topic conversations civil and ongoing, and stepping in when they're not. General is the board where anything is tolerated...if you want to post to the moderators, doing it publicly is (again) troll-like behavior, since this thread serves NO PURPOSE, except give you another opportunity to bring up religion. Want to talk about it? Take it to the appropriate forum/board/site/whatever.

YOU said, it's part of everyone's life. The fact is, it is NOT part of everyone's life, just like anything else, except breathing and eating. I could say "auto maintenance affects EVERYONE", but it's not true. It only affects those that have cars. It may be important TO ME, but I'm not naive enough to think it applies to everyone.

Is your real objection that this makes it easier for people to ignore your evangelizing?

Again, since you apparently have reading-comprehension issues, identical threads are usually ALWAYS merged, regardless of category. Again, why should yours be special?? And have you considered that shutting-up would be a good thing, since you're talking about something off-topic, in the wrong forum??
Again, WHY should it be public? And if you wanted it public, why did you address it to the moderators personally??

Couldn't have put it better....

Respectfully, how are serious questions about faith, with an aim to engage people of all walks of life, "identical" to the mega-religion thread? You can at least let 2 or 3 other faith threads live, that gather attention from the community. Not every religious topic fits nicely into "Rank your Religion." I'd have never looked there had my posts not been merged there, and I think many Christians would do likewise.

You know as well as I do, my honest comments provoke (sic) plenty of response.

Once again, since you seem to be missing the point:
THIS IS LINUXQUESTIONS. If you want to post religious threads, you have options. Please, PICK ONE:

• Go to the "Social Groups" forum, join/create a Christian group.
• Go to a different website that discusses such things.
• Learn to live with YOUR thread/ideas being treated just like everyone ELSES threads/ideas.
• Quit posting off-topic junk that has importance to YOU, and assuming it has the same importance to everyone else.
• Quit posting off-topic threads period.

Implying you personally are pro-marijuana, is the furthest from my mind. I brought this up twice, as the most conspicuous example I can think of because twice it was stated religion threads do not belong in General. (Yes, I know that's been brought up more than twice)

With little reservation, you're right about this appeal belonging in the Moderator Questions/Comment Forum. And you're right. The moderators do a fantastic job of keeping things in order. At the same time, several threads on any topic should be allowed to live if they're not very closely related and their titles aren't anywhere near the other OPs intent. Yet I see your point. This could get challenging.

Do you meet people every day who have faith? If people express their faith in your view, then faith is a part of your life.

And I will AGAIN tell you I think that ANYTHING not Linux/Unix related doesn't belong on here. The difference is, no one in that thread asked for opinions.
Nothing challenging at all, unless you have very little common sense. You posted it to the moderators...publicly. No reason to at all, unless you want the aforementioned attention to your evangelizing. And AGAIN, your logic seems to be lacking...you say above that several threads should be allowed to live, if they're not closely related...but complain because the christianity threads you start get merged...into ONE thread about christianity. Are you even paying attention to what you post?
Again, your logic is flawed. Someone elses faith doesn't concern me in ANY way, AT ALL. That's a personal decision for EVERYONE, just like what color hair to have, what clothes to wear, etc. To put it simply, if you met a fashion model in some hideous $10,000 gown, does that mean that 'high fashion' is then a part of your life? You meet atheists every day...does that mean that atheisism is part of your life too????

By challenging, I'm speaking of maintaining several ongoing threads about different aspects of religion, rather than one "mega-thread" that dumps everything having to do with faith or religion under a profoundly anti-Christ (in principle, not as in, the OP is anti-christ) title, "Rank your religion."

Absolutely. If something is part of the human experience, it's a part of our life. In may not be part of my lifestyle, but part of my life, yes.

This is the kind of response that earns you the "Troll" badge. You split hairs, backpedal, use circular logic, etc., to make your 'point'. YOU SAID:
So...putting christianity related threads together is somehow wrong? They're NOT closely related?? How (and WHO), exactly should 'intent' be determined?? Do you actually think there should be a ton of christianity threads on a TECHNICAL forum? Christianity threads are merged, because the TOPIC IS THE SAME. You, your ideas, beliefs, etc., are NOTHING SPECIAL, and shouldn't expect to be treated any differently. Once again:

THIS IS LINUXQUESTIONS. If you want to post religious threads, you have options. Please, PICK ONE:

• Go to the "Social Groups" forum, join/create a Christian group.
• Go to a different website that discusses such things.
• Learn to live with YOUR thread/ideas being treated just like everyone ELSES threads/ideas.
• Quit posting off-topic junk that has importance to YOU, and assuming it has the same importance to everyone else.
• Quit posting off-topic threads period.

Only in the VERY abstract sense, which has nothing to do with this. Again, your troll-badge is well earned.

re bluegospel
 

I fail to understand how posting in "LinuxQuestions" should be related to any religion (or all religions).

I am very religious, but I have never before felt the need to point that out in a technical forum.

Here is not the place to discuss religion, politics, social medicine, or most aspects of goat herding. These are (in general) not technical subjects related to Linux.

I am sorry if anyone considers Linux their religion: that problem is beyond my capacity to resolve.

Thanks for the feedback. To reiterate, LQ is first and foremost about discussing topics related to Linux and Open Source. If your main goal is to discuss religion, there are almost certainly better fora available for you to do so. We do offer General as a kind of water cooler for the LQ community, and we *attempt* to allow all subjects there. Certain subjects such as religion and politics have proven to be _extremely_ difficult to keep on track and non-confrontational. Because of this we have measures in place, such as the Mega threads, to attempt to keep things as civil as possible. It entirely within the realm on possibility that there is a better way for us to handle these topics and were certainly willing to listen to specific recommendations.

--jeremy

I think the "Rank your religiousness" thread should have its title amended to reflect its current status as the "Mega Religion" thread.

Thanks for paying me any mind Jeremy.

I understand. And my biggest benefit from these forums is in fact the technical help I have at times received here. Learning about Linux-related stuff is of utmost importance to me--in particular web-programming, but I have to admit and beg you understand, I can't help but be more conversant in the eternal Christ. That's just me. If there's a general forum that I'm going to "cool off" at, Christ is going to have to dominate my conversation there.

Does this mean you'll consider letting at least another mega-thread run with a title besides the one we have (which is a deterent at least to me)--maybe just "The Faith & Religion Thread"?

That is the real crux of the matter, IMO.

(bolding by me)

There is the admission, at least in part. You want to have as much 'exposure' to your religious ideas as possible.

BTW, if people checked your profile page, they would see this (edited down by me)

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...gospel-510300/

This is not the forum for you to go around trying to convert people, or evangelise in general. Just because people reply to your (rather strange and convoluted, when its not cirular logic) posts doesnt mean that you are making any converts. IMO you are actually doing your faith a disservice, I believe (LOL) that more people are swayed by the ideas put forward and posts from the atheist/agnostic side of the discussion. BTW, no, I'm not an atheist or agnostic. ;)

Using your logic, I should be able to create several threads on cannabis/drugs-

"Drug Use and Health"
"Cannabis And Paper"
"Hempcrete- Better Than Concrete In All Respects"
"Drugs and Freedom, What It Meazns To You"
"The War On Drugs And Why Its Wrong"
Etc.

If I was silly enough to try making those sorts of threads then personally I would have zero issues with moderators moving all those threads into a 'drug mega-thread'. Even though some of them, if you really care about the subject, would possibly be better discussed as a single issue. But to echo what virtually everybody in this thread has said so far- this is a linux/technical forum, not a drugs forum, or a religion forum.

IMO you should count yourself lucky that jeremy allows a potentially volatile thread on religion (or any other touchy subjects) to continue.

+1. It would be a more accurate discription of the thread as it stands, and would go partway to giving bluegospel what he wants.

Unless of course you are just using the thread title as leverage. Which wouldnt suprise me at all.

Blue, you should really, I mean REALLY, give up. I can usually see both points of any discussion (I can and do rip both side of many arguments) but you have totally lost the plot here and infact you have probably totally alienated yourself from anyone who would be willing to, even as devils advocate, attempt to give you some backing. LQ is not yours to use as an evangelism tool and believe it or not most people here don't want to continuously go through these same heated debates. Most people in sites like LQ are over it and just want to live and let live. My advice to you, again would be, and I have said this before, stop and wipe the dust from your feet etc etc etc.

Hi Blue,

Take a deep breath and repeat daily

Make this your new year resolution.

All the best and as I say, may God give the best of HSW (health, strength and wisdom).

OK.

I have somehow managed to refrain from commenting on any of your posts, but the time has come. bluegospel, you my friend, are a troll and based on the thread tag of "trollish" you are bloody well aware of it too.

I'll see you in hell!

My opinion:

trolls love to be fed by members posting to their thread.

members who find a thread distasteful you should not post to that thread.

check out the post count.

if no one would post the op would eventually tire.

the thread would go "no where"

I suggest...

• "Hey, I'm a Christian, too." But that does not mean that I want to read about Christianity in a forum that is intended to be about Linux questions. And, in a more general sense, I just might want to keep my religious opinions to myself ("pray in secret" ...) and not suffer the bandwidth consumption of those who don't happen to feel the way that I do. A place has been set aside specifically to "blow off steam," and 99.% of the time I choose to completely ignore that place. That doesn't mean :tisk: that "my biscuits are burnin'," nor that they are about to.
• Within a "general discussion" area, there are lots of things to talk about. ("Microsoft sux," for instance.) ;) ) Once again, bandwidth should be parceled-out fairly.
• "If we didn't shove the religious threads into one pocket, is it likely that they would otherwise consume a dis-proportionate number of new topics?" I think that it would be fairly impossible to answer that question in the negative. Religious feelings, if strongly held, tend not only to be extremely contentious but also extremely prolific. They would create much more conversation than the recently-announced fact that Bill Gates has just offered Linus Torvalds $12 billion dollars to buy up all the rights to Linux. ( ;) ...)

Opinions about religious expression do differ, even among subscribers to any particular religion. The exercise of the prerogatives of a moderator (note: I am not one) should not be construed as being "for," nor "against," religion or religious expression. That's just not the case.

At one time, we didn't allow religion threads/posts at all. The megathread is a pleasant medium for pleasantly medium people to discuss religion pleasantly (and mediumly). As has been stated previously, LQ really isn't the place to discuss religious issues - there are numerous other blogs and sites and bricks and mortar places to do this. Usually, megathreads are cleaned up when they get too huge - this used to be dictated, IIRC, by the size of the thread that the database could handle. Now it's dictated by circular arguments and the OCD of the moderator team.

To summarise: LQ not for religion, because we're kind we allow a single large thread (and I may close the existing one and open a new one soon), have fun.

Do you really not understand what people are telling you?

If you want to blather on about ANYTHING YOU WANT, go to the "Social Groups" section, create a group, and have a ball. General isn't the place to do it, in my opinion. Jeremy and the other moderators allow you to continue, but with the attitude you stated above, I'd certainly not. You admit coming here, then say that christ will 'have to dominate my conversation'. No, it doesn't HAVE TO...if you feel like it must, then I will state again that YOU SHOULD GO TO A DIFFERENT WEBSITE WHERE SUCH TOPICS ARE ENCOURAGED. Folks DO NOT COME HERE for such topics, and don't care to have them crammed down their throats by 'christians' like you. Using Firefox? Press CTRL-T...open another tab alongside LinuxQuestions, and go to whatever christian website you want. Feel like 'cooling off'??? Click that tab, and and enjoy.
They've already considered..it's called (again), the "Social Groups" link, upper-right main menu box. Click it and have fun.

Exactly what I suggested in post #2 of this thread.

Here you are, blue.

I don't think Blue would enjoy being there as he'd be preaching to the choir. After all, we, blasphemers are unlikely to "troll" that social group. It'd be immoral.

Agreed, especially based on his posts here, and the comment he made on his own public profile, in response to a visitor message:
...bluegospel isn't interested in keeping on topic, or doing anything other than cramming beliefs onto the forums, regardless of who is offended, asks him to stop, etc. The same tactic that's used by lots of other 'christians' like him...if someone complains, well, they're just anti-god/immoral/trying to keep them silent. But then they're the same group who will complain about other 'immoral' things they don't like, and expect everyone to agree with them, and do as they wish. If not, repeat the cycle....

I see it ALL the time where I live, and often (amazingly) on subway's in NYC when I go up to visit family. As soon as the doors shut, the bible comes out and they start 'testifying' at the top of their lungs.

It's amazing how they fail to see what a big disservice they do to their cause.

Yep...but they rarely see it that way. Most like to say "See?? I'm witnessing every day to non-believers!! I go to church 24/7!!", but don't walk the walk. When asked if they're actually out in the community helping folks, or donating money to ANYTHING aside from the church, it's usually a big "No".

There's a church here in town that's pretty large. They've got a HUGE campus, swimming pools/fitness centers, two huge buses (think Greyhound types), etc., etc. Once or twice a year they go deliver food to some shelters here in town, and won't ever do it unless the local news comes and films them, doing their 'good christian work'. They were very absent during the tornadoes last year, but strangely had a huge turnout to clean up the church grounds. Guess the folks who lost everything didn't really matter....

Well I belong to two Atheist forums, being quite anti-religious

cheers

then let it be segregation .As an Atheist i DO NOT want to see it plastered all over the place
put it this way -- an EXAMPLE ( you in MY shoes )

you a Christian ( a minority ) have to see , hear, and in your countries OATH there is a MUSLIM DECREE
there is reference to Islam ALL OVER THE PLACE

so much so that you are SICK AND TIRED of it

just HOW WOULD YOU FEEL ????


this is how the NON Christian's feel ALL THE TIME with all the Christian stuff shoved in OUR faces .

As an Atheist there are times I want to start a " non-jehad " against Christian's

As an observer the Islamic community is a LOT nicer than the Christian community

mind you it is only the extreme left and right on BOTH sides that make the most noise

The middle ground is normally very quiet

Amen:)

Blue hasn't posted in this thread for 2 days, who is now the group continuing this childish (on both sides) discussion? Sorry boys you all need to pull your heads in and grow up, this is Linux Questions not a religion/anti-religion forum. You have all said your piece don't you think or are you going to continue looking like your claiming the higher ground when Blue himself has shut up days ago?

[Sorry, wrong thread]

While I agree that we (I'm to blame) have gone well off-topic now, Blue has a smart tendency to keep silent for a number of posts until something more convenient (to him) comes up.

Let's keep it open and see if Blue replies.

Sure.

I could say the exact same thing about the majority of you.

You seriously doing yourself a huge disservice.

agree with k3lt01
if you think he is a troll, don't talk to him
after all "don't feed the trolls"
ignore his threads

This thread has obviously gone significantly off-topic. Subsequent off-topic posts on either side will result in closure and possible further action.

--jeremy