Linux=Chaos... Someone needs to fix the Linux problem
 

The problem being... THERE ARE NO STANDARDS... This is completely asinine. I cannot find a decent website, article, forum, etc. that actually compares linux distros for me. I need to get my work done and the linux community obviously has no clue on how to present their products.
I love linux and yet I can't find the right product. And people wonder why linux has had to struggle in the computer industry.
If someone knows which distro has the most/best compatible list of hardware and is no more that 512mb in size please contact me.
My suggestion is this community needs to get their act together or Linux will never be a dominating OS in the universe.

linux is about choice there are many distros but they are based on standards (posix) and the same linux kernel maybe we don't all want to be the same. linux compatible hardware (check the hcl) can work on any distro the distro is a matter of choice. but to say "THERE ARE NO STANDARDS" is completely asinine now DSL (Damn Small Linux) is small and knopix (and thus debian based) so it has good hardware recognition but it's a mini-distro and lacks some features. I don't think your going to get a full distro for 512mb why this size limit? you'd have a better experience with a full featured distro.

Of course there are standards...All distro's are basically the same and using the same kernels. The different distro's just represent different flavours and guess what? You get to pick one :) Just try some out, you don't need anyone holding your hand do you ;)

Most of em are free, if you don't like one distro....format your disk and try another. I consider the choice a beautiful thing. I don't know about you but I'm not interested in World Domination...I just want an OS that works for me and what I want to do with it.

Lol.

Then what's POSIX? ANSI C? ANSI C++? The multiboot standard?

That's only because you didn't look at the right places.

Here on LQ, I have seen (and participated in) many distro comparisons.

Which has anything to do with exactly what?

from http://www.debian.org
I call that a presentation.

Most other distros also present themselves.

If you mean `present themselves in such a way that <foo happens>', state so.

Your unwillingness to trade is not the fault of the market.

And that Linux *has* to struggle follows logically from what?

http://www.toms.net/rb/
It takes up a mere 1.44 megabyte and is compatible with any computer with a floppy drive.

Our act is together. Yours is not.

That's not the goal.

for a better understanding of GNU/Linux, read http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

--Jonas

I think linux has "its act together" just fine. If you look at server usage for any major database management system or web server, you will find Linux has a sizeable presence. Of course, desktop presence needs to be increased...after all, Linux wasn't created to be a Windows-like desktop in the first place. To get it there will take time.

If you would have done any searching on this forum whatsoever, you would have heard of http://distrowatch.com. Go there for your comparison/ranking of Linux distributions.

Also, yelling at us doesn't do you any good. We're the users here...if you want to organize a Linux summit to get all of the distros to use one common site, power to you (but they won't do it).

DSL Damn Small Linux is the best under 512mb (it's 50)!!!
Mepis is the best live cd with a live installer (easy) and the best os control center(easy).

Another problem... the linux community speaks to the rest of the world as if we know about all of this. 80% of computer users don't care about the jargon and all they want is something that is easy and works. For example: When I browse through Suse 9 Enterprise I see a lot of programs that have short names and no way of explaining what they are. So I have to do an internet search for ever app. This is not fun and I don't have time for this. If you want to cater to the market then something needs to be done about the way you present your products. I've been a Windows Technician for almost 10 years. At least 3 years as of recently have been with SMB and Home Markets.
Having a choice is great! But giving a windows users a choice will just confuse them. I understand the origins of Linux and what is has become.
I guess the biggest reason why I present this to you all is because I'm among the huge percentage of the market that is NOT EDUCATED on Linux. This is NOT my problem nor is it the rest of the market's problem. This is the Linux Community's problem and we think something should be done.

If I and others cannot get the help we need from the Linux Community then I will have to enter the development end and change things myself. I am not here to destroy the foundation of your precious OS nor am I hell bent on World Domination.
Truth: Linux is clunky, chaotic, but has so much potential.

And I'm not "yelling" at anyone nor am I trying to make enemies here. I represent 40 companies and many individuals that have the same questions and issues I have with Linux.

I've met a few people from the local linux group here in Houston, TX and I hear a lot of pessimism. I don't need pessimists and I don't need lack of confidence in this industry. I know that the possibilities of Linux are limitless that's the only reason why I push so much.

Re: Linux=Chaos... Someone needs to fix the Linux problem
 

One might question your searching ability.
Here are three links that showed up in the first twenty Google results for "linux distro comparison":

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=158074
http://www.freeos.com/articles/3777/2/13/
http://www.free-soft.org/FSM/english.../ladislav.html

I also have a comparison of Mandriva, Ubuntu, and Mepis on my own website. There are many distribution comparisons.

It just takes a little looking. Linux isn't just going to fall into your lap.

If you do not believe that Linux can be a dominating OS in the universe then you should not be using it. You might as well abandon all hope in it.

clintbrot - I've never used mepis and have no idea what the .iso size is I have use dsl

Skrilla - How is it our fault that you are uneducated? you expect knowledge to fall into your lap? get off your ass and learn something. you've obviosly never heard of the man comand. but it will give you quite a lengthy discription of any app on you linux system it even works on itself try:

man man

for details

First off if your not educted about a product that is NOT the communities problem that is YOUR problem. I don't know how to fix my car that's not Toyota's problem is it?

Second of all PLEASE JUMP IN AND FIX ANY AND ALL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE!!!! If you are capable and have the time then FIX IT!!!

Now what is it that your having such a problem with? I've always found the easiest way is to just ask if you can't find what your looking for online.

Johnson_Steve.... watch yourself... I'm not trying to start a fight here. And yes I have used the man command. I think you all are not understanding what I am trying to do here. Your intentions are always good but your execution is lacking.

RandomLinuxNewb you're business ethics are lacking substance. If you want Linux to be used more in the world YOU have educate the market. If a company wants their product to sell they have to educate the market. I'm using a basic business model here. I'm not some crazy loon that's trying to get a rise out of you.

Linux=Chaos ???
 

To make linux work for you .... you need to work at it.

There are simply hundreds of sites comparing all the latest linux distros here are just a couple

http://distrowatch.com/
http://www.linuxiso.org/
http://www.linux.org/dist/
http://www.google.com/linux

There are standards ...

http://www.linuxbase.org/

but just because there are standards doesn't mean that everyone sticks to them. If all linux distros were built on the same universal standards there would be 99.9 % less innovation and linux would become yet another stagnated corperation driven OS. Who is to say that one set of standards are better than another? if linux=chaos then maybe chaos=choice
remember the qualities you seek in a linux distro may be different to the qualitites someone else looks for.

im not sure quite what you're after here .... do you only have 512 MB hard drive space? or do you want to run it from a cd/usb pen drive?
have a look at this link ... there are lots of tiny distros here feather linux for example uses only 64Mb.

http://www.l0t3k.org/linux/links/livecd/

im sure there must be a way of running a livecd iso from a hard drive.

I dont wonder ... i think its pretty obvious

Windows XP Pro SP2 = $100+
Office 2003 Professional = $200+

SuSE linux 9.3 including Open office = $0
Mandrake linux including Open office = $0
Gentoo linux including Open office = $0

i could go on all day but im sure you get the idea

Financing for the development of MS/Apple OS's = $millions possibly billions
Financing for the development of linux distros .... a tiny fraction of the above figures

i think it all depends on how you look at it ... is the glass half full or half empty? where you see chaos others see oppertunity and flexability. Yes linux can be hard work sometimes ... it doesnt always do what you want straight away ... but hey no pain no gain. i've been using linux for more than 7 years now and yes i have been very very frustrated in the past, ive even formatted and reverted to using MS ... for a little while anyway.. but i'd be impressed if you could install windows into 512 MB's of hard drive space, not pay anything for it, reverse engineer it legally, modify it in any way you wish and then copy it and give it to your friends without fear of prosicution ;)

OK so my penny's worth ends here.

PS.
this is a very cool quote ... keep it in mind while you search for your perfect distro :)

Variety of distros
 

And what names exactly are they?
This is fun for me, I have time for this and I like it. Guess Linux/*BSD makes a perfect OS to me...
Then (sory for this expression) Windows (l)users are unable to think and decide for themselves. They must be much more stupid than an average human.

For example: Does the variety of cars in the market confuse someone? Are you confused, when you go to the shop and see many kinds of TV sets, radios, etc.? Computer iliterate people aren't even very confused with the variety of items in computer hardware market. Then why not make OS market similar to car market? I think it should be so. And you can choose the best TV or radio without even knowing how it works. It is simple. You just look up the specifications of the device, and choose what best suits your needs. Why are you thinking that is impossible in linux world? It is even better - you can try various linux distributions for unlimited time, without paying money to see if you like the product. So are you too lazy to do this?

I'm sorry if I was a bit rough, but this is what it seems from your posts.

Skrilla, what in the hell are you talking about. So now not only have you decided what
Linux was, is, should be, but that if it doesn't meet the standards that YOU decide then
it's not worth using.

Well, thank Frith your there looking out for us 2million plus users to see the error of our
ways.

You claim to represent companies and multiple individual interests yet you come across as
a kid with NO IDEA about Linux, the community here, or the problems that Linux was
created to address.

I don't mean for this to sound as if I'm attacking you, but you should really do a little
research before throwing out nonsensical statements.

Zack

FartWiz... great reply. I've been to all of the sites that you all have listed for many years now and yes I know of the POSIX "standards". Let me give you a simple comparison here. Windows Franchise VS. thousands upon thousands of Linux Distros. I just see the community spreading themselves too thin.

Cron... you are not nice and that was not acceptable. Please refrain from replying.
Zackarya... you make a great point. And no I'm not a kid... and yes I've done my research. Look if I were asking for myself it wouldn't sound so "nonsensical". This whole topic should have lit light bulbs off in every one of your heads. This is the market that you've been trying to tap. I'm just the middle man here. Don't get angry at me.

This is turning into a rather funny discussion. :)

Skrilla, if you know so much about the market and operating systems, what's stopping you from creating your own standardised OS and market it the way you want. Maybe you're OS will go on to 'dominate the universe'. And please refrain from telling me what I should or should not use and why, thank you.

well, i guess it pays to read the whole thread before you post a reply!!
well we learn from our mistakes....
Had i have seen your subsequent posts i wouldn't have bothered to reply at all, but now im angry!
it seems pretty obvious to me that you have no real interest in using linux only picking a fight, if you cant be bothered to learn about something then dont bother to use it. The linux community owes you nothing ... nothing at all ...
You say you are part of the market that is not educated in linux ... this much is evident. If you are not educated then either educate yourself or use windows and keep your opinions to yourself
You also say that if you cannot get the help you need from the linux community then you will enter the development side and change things for yourself .... great then do it .... although if you cant use it i wonder how you will develop it ... education seems to be a reccurring theme here!
Why do i need to use an OS that "dominates the universe"? answer .. i dont ... i need to use an OS that serves my needs and encourages me to learn more about the OS i use ..... frankly windows doesnt ... hence i use linux
as for your business ethics .... linux isnt about making money and dominating the market, its about giving users choice.
And educating the market? .....try google my freind ... all the education you could ever need and its all free.

I am working on an OS that is Linux based but all of this pessimism makes it frustrating.
Okay again with the misunderstanding. You're taking it way out of context. I'm not trying to create an OS that will "dominate the universe".
I never told anyone what they should use?

Skrilla seems to forget all the training he had to go through to figure out how Windows works. And he seems to think everyone else in the world knows how Windows works too. Well, I know people that are just as clueless on Windows as they are about Linux.

Skrilla, did you ever buy a distribution like SUSE that comes with the user and administrator manuals in a shrink-wrapped box? No? Well, I bet you did ten years ago when you bought Windows. How many books do you have on Windows? How many books do you have on Linux or any distribution of Linux?

Your Linux ignorance is showing. Better cover it up. Can't do that by claiming "ethics" (how the hell did that get in there?).

Suffering short term memory loss? ;)

if you know how to use the man command why did you complain that there was no way to find out what an app was with out going online and doing a search?

also linux isn't a company it's more like a whole bunch of non profits. some companies are selling it and the do a good job of educating their customers with their web pages all I'm saying is anything you want to know is out there but you must go get it. we can't help you if you don't post a specific problem.

I'm not picking a fight so please settle down. Losing control of yourself is not the right thing to do.
And again... you're taking it out of context when I say "dominate the universe"
IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN LINUX THEN WHY ARE YOU BACKING IT UP?

Troll

Look....you're all just misunderstanding me and overreacting. This is the reason why Solution Providers have a hard time working with the Linux Community.

and another thing lol ....
i still think your quote is cool .... but it doesn't suit you ....
you evidently don't believe that anything is possible .... and as for not knowing everything? thats not the impression you seem to be putting across.

Go back to the top of this thread and read your first ever post on this site.

I don't think you are being misunderstood.

I think the original poster has a valid point, but maybe presented it the wrong way.
Someone used to running Winzip to unpack an archive file has no idea that he/she should run man tar to see options for unpacking a file in Linux. Granted, they DID need to learn to use WinZip, and should expect a comparable learning curve. The real problem is they need to know that tar is the command to use. While we think it's easy enough to ask here at LQ or Google an answer, maybe they feel frustrated and unsure how to even ask.

Surely this isn't the fault of the Linux operating system, but it also isn't the fault of the user if they do not know. Personally, I don't care how many users Linux has. I care about me, and use what i like. I'm sure many (most) people here at LQ feel the same, but that's no reason to alienate someone with a valid question or statement.

all the posts seem pretty settled to me. Linux comes in many flavours for many different people, just check out some and if none are for you why complain? just use windows.

Kdr Kane: nice...


I have not made one attack on anyone here and yet I seem to get a ton of them. Thanks to those that have tried to keep it civil.

"you evidently don't believe that anything is possible .... and as for not knowing everything? thats not the impression you seem to be putting across. "

Wow that really made no sense

gbhil,

He does not have a valid point. Does he have a 512MB requirement for Windows? No.

Did he buy a distribution that is packaged for the consumer or inserted into a book? No.

Why does he have unrealistic expectations for Linux?

gbhill thanks
ingvildr true

For those who still believe I'm trying to dominate the universe... Again... if you don't believe in Linux then why are you backing it? There is no point in support Linux if you do not believe that it can be a dominate OS in the universe. THERE IS NO POINT. To believe that I am saying that I want Linux to dominate everything is rediculous and that's not what I meant. Maybe you should ask me to explain before you jump off the deep end.

Want us to hold your hand through linux as well as english?

Kdr Kane: You do not even know my expectations and how would you know that they are unrealistic? Stop attacking me and at least be of some help. If your ultimate goal here is to be annoying and to start a fight then please just stay out of this topic.

"What us to hold your hand through linux as well as english?"
Yeah like that was even better

Oh.... I get it. "All is lost. You might as well give up now and go back to Bill because you can't win."

Is that it?

What's funny is that you act like this is the first time this has been said about Linux. And you feel like you are providing some insight into something all the rest of us can't see, but you are so enlightened.

You've handled your first thread on these forums quite well. LOL

If you've got something of interest to tell me then please do it. If you're just going waste LQ's bandwidth and resources as well as mine and other people's time with your nonsense then please just do not reply. Why cause problems?

haha damn what and want, its all to similar :p
btw what was the point in this thread? just to complain?

Kdr Kane just give up. You are making no sense and you're just annoying.

I AM NOT COMPLAINING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wanted to spark a discussion on how to fix the problem. But most of you are too blind to the problem and therefore you've wasted many people's time and LQs resources.
I suggest 1 of you go to a mall and do some surveys. You're problem should be right in your face.

Why is there no point? why does my os have to be the wolds most popular? is this some macho texas thing? my os has to do one thing: serve my needs in a way that suits me and it does. I've found my distro are you trying to find yours or are you just bitching?

also the way you worded your first post was quite offensive and an attack on linux. you expect no negitive response? linux is right up there with politics and religion here don't walk in the door and say what you said and expect nothing.

i think if you look at ingvildr's reply, he actually did spell want correctly .....

and just because i must have missed it ... who was it that said they didn't believe in linux?

Who said anything about it being the most popular?
Oh come on... it is YOUR fault that you got offended. If my first post offended you then you must get offended a lot.

He's making that part up. I'm just ignoring it.

But, I got a good laugh at his profile.

I don't see any problems, i have a great OS in Slackware and i see lots of posts on here from people moving to linux seeking help. Where is the problem? Linux is all about choice, so choose what ever you like.

Okay well a few of you had something decent to say and the rest of you are just waiting burn in hell.