why bother with linux
 

[You never saw this]

Re: why bother with linux
 

I disagree. There are thousands of linux apps out there. I have yet to find an app that I need that isn't available on Windows.
I agree with this one, but I tend to like a challege and want control. Windows doesn't give you 100% control. You shouldn't isolate yourself, as you will undoubtably use Windows somewhere else, so you may as well stay up with it.

That depends on how you want to look at it. I could agree, but I can also look at it as a break away or fork from the commercial Unix's of its time.

More the same as _____. It definitely isn't more the same of MS. Given that there are 3-4 main Window Managers, yeah they are looking more and more the same to try and help Windows users make the transition, but you can apply any skin or theme to KDE/Gnome that you want.


I welcome you as a geek. I think anyone who uses linux has a little geek in them. It all depends on what you want your computer to do and how you want it to do it. I can automate linux to do a hell of a lot more than a windows box. I stay up to date on MS certifications, but continuously move Servers from Windows to Linux. Sure there are some Windows Servers that I can't replace, custom software, Domain Controllers, and maybe a couple others, but beyond about 3 roles that Microsoft has a hold on, Linux can do it just as well and every boss is happier when you save money.

Why do you think Microsofts head office address is 'One Microsoft Way'...the elimination of choice.

You could round + round here. What distros did you try and how long ago was this? Depending on your hardware, distros + expectations, it can be more difficult using Linux whilst starting out. However, last night I set up 3 machines for a community hall in under two hours running Kubuntu on 4 year old Compaq Deskpro EN's without the need to install any additional drivers or software for networking, printers, digital cameras, etc. Windows is able to install a number of devices automatically, but after that you still play around installing the different drivers for your USB ports, network card, graphics card, sound card, and every other tom, dick + harry. Modern distros such as Ubtuntu and it's derivatives are designed to 'just work', but where one person has it fly through with everything work, another spends a week bashing is head.

End of the day, your computer is there to help you work/play. If you find Windows XP does that better and with less hassle, then stick to it. No point getting wound up configuring Linux if there's no benefit in your personal situation :)

Why bother? Why the hell did you even try? You don't seem like the person to try new things. Please do everybody a favour and don't bother again. I guess it's fun to use the same thing every day for the rest of your life and never learn anything.

Whats good for one person may not be good for another. If Linux wasn't working for you and Windows has the apps you need then maybe Windows is the right OS for you. I think you gave up prematurely and may not have tried enough distros to find the one thats suited to your needs. Also when trying Linux, there is no need to totally give up on Windows until you reach a stage where you are comfortable with Linux and you find that you don't need to run Windows on a regular basis.

I must say I agree with Haiyadragon. Why bother with anything with that attitude.

Linux users don't need to beg anyone to try linux, I think we live happily with that and if anyone look interested, a hand of help will be given freely. I noticed that more windows users are aggressive against linux geeks than the other way around. But why is that? I don't think that by using linux we try to make other people look dumb just because of the o/s we are using, it's that the others think that we are doing that.

Windows condemns people to upgade their hardware on an eternal basis. Linux does just the opposite.

duh, well I use Debian and it works just fine.

Best post on the topic.

Using Linux is about choice. I dual boot. Why? I don't want to have to use a lot of time right now to get everything working in Linux. I have what's important to me working and when I have time, I'll work on some other items. I choose which OS to boot into.

F_M

>> READ IT. END IT.
 

and yah i agree with fritz. i just didnt' c dat before posting else things r common between u n me dude :-) so howz it goin' ?

I like it, does what i want, presents a challenge, saves time on all sorts of silly admin things i shouldn't have to do (spyware anyone?), easier to make certain choices on software (no cost on most of it, so i can test all options).

They're my reasons, are they yours? who knows, stop thinking in terms of which is best, the question is always which is best for you, windows? fair enough.

So why we see every now and then somebody starts a thread like this one? One reason I can think of is they are loosers who cannot cope with being failed.
And once again, what a great article is this.
Basically, if you flee Windows because of viruses and spyware - get a Mac, unless you are a hacker by heart.

Well it maked you reflect and thats good. You know that there is something out there, but not quite what it is.

Alot of people call it 'freedom' - not being held up by some gigantic commercial monopolizing company, using your right to choose - just like in 'real life'.

We are all beeing owned by some big corporation one way or the other, commercials, transport etc. Linux is for me a place thats mine among others, controlled by us not 'them'. It's a open system. Wanna hear whats goin on? Just ask, or look for youself. I like that.

Fill your needs with another OS, thats great. I bet it supports your way of living at several points. Don't use some bad excuses like 'it's eating all your time just making it work (ever tryed Mandrake?), and so on so on.

I don't think you got any arguments at all. Your just describing development, not seeing whats really going with this 'freedomthing'.

Linux is free. Windows is not. All the good programs for Linux are free. All the good programs for Windows are not.

For those without money, Linux > Windows. Period.

This is not the point, really. Everyone has the freedom of choice: pay the buck or gain some knowledge instead. Coming here whining (your Linux is bad) is what I condemn.

"Free" or "not," that really isn't the point. Your time, after all, is not free, whether you get paid for it or not. You're investing your time working with a computer, when you could be playing tennis or drinking beer. (Unless you have just bopped the computer out the window with a tennis-racket while slugging down a cold one. :cool: ) So the only question ought to be, "Why are you doing this? What's in it for you?" If Microsoft Windows does what you need... it's not unreasonably priced and it's certainly easy to find.

If you want to know and explore and do more, and are willing to feel like a :newbie: to get there ... are not the slightest bit ashamed of that (you shouldn't be, after all!) ... then Linux is well worth knowing. It's a world above-and-beyond anything that Windows can do, and it's not going away. I think that, "you need to know Windows, and you need to know Linux. May as well get busy." :study:

Use a completely separate computer. Or, put a completely separate hard-drive in your machine. So that you can learn Linux at your leisure, you can do it without messing-up anything in Windows that you depend on, and if you wish, nobody needs to know.

For me the time I'm spending to learn using and configuring doesn't pay back at the moment. And I agree that Windows XP seems quite stable (hey, yes, compared to Windows ME for example it is rock solid :) ). And of course at the moment it looks like for nearly every hardware there is a driver in Windows, for example my scanner and my printer. That's comfortable, yes of course.
But I am aware that security concerns about Windows won't be reduced. And that with every Windows version the amount of digital rights management, of rights and freedom taken from the user and given to "security" software from Microsoft, Sony etc. will increase -- call it TCPA or Palladium or whatever. That said I'm sure my time spend to learn Linux will pay back as soon as Windows Vista will be released and become the new standard in the Windows world. I don't want to buy and use it for personal usage. It's sad enough that I probably will be forced to buy it to set up one computer to use professional software (that I need for my profession).

Re: why bother with linux
 

Correct, but with Linux it is a 1 time thing, configure it and it will run for years.
With windows you have to format once in a while because you system gets trashed.
If it runs it runs, configure it is a 1 time thing. Linux aint windows

Linux=stable Windows can be stable. If you run into a driver problem in linux you can unload the module, try that with windows ;-)

With windows you are 24/7 busy with keeping your pc clean of virusses/spyware/defragmenting cleaning up/staying up to date.
Linux has millions of programs look at sourceforge or freshmeat or gnu.org, freedesktop for example.
No software in linux is a clone of commercial software in opposide most commercial software is a clone of opensource programs, Netscape for example, or the new IE7 with tabs ;-)

It takes some time, I am running linux for 9 months and even now I feel a n00b sometimes too.
Thats not something to be shamed of. All Linux Guru's were a n00b one day ;-)
But think of this.
The community is awesome and the great support of this community makes it worth it and I love to learn new things and get things done.
Aint that something to be proud of?
I prefer spend 300 euro's to a great project instead of filling Bill's bigg wallet ;-)

I use Linux because, in my opinion, Unix-based operating systems are more useful.

My Windows PC is excellent for playing games. It is very good at handling hardware, and getting an application to work is usually trouble free. You run the installer, and it works!

My Linux PC is great for other things. I plug it into the internet, and I don't get viruses. I can install servers easily. At work, I have a MUD running on my PC, that allows everyone to connect to, and I didn't even need to alter my standard OS setup (apache installed). I also like the way that in Linux, an OS is a complete system. On a mandrake distro, you have a full office suite (open office), a very good image editor (GIMP), more text editor than you can shake a stick at (most of which have helpful plugins, such as source code highlighting), HTML editors, a choice of browsers, a selection of GOOD ftp programs, several desktop interfaces. the list goes on.

I don't like the way that under windows, you're expected to pay for an OS. Then pay for an office suite. Then pay for this, and that, and everything. And then if you don't want to use internet explorer, you can't get rid of it. And Media player isn't quite as configurable as it should be (no ogg support? Thats ridiculous).

But the best thing about Linux, is that it is Open Source. Most things can be ported to use on windows (if you so wish). So when I use GIMP in Linux, I can also use it in windows, if I cant get to myLinux box. Unforntunatly, things don't work quite as simply the other way round.

Asking why we should bother with Linux is a good question because, in all honesty, Windows can be a secure platform assuming you're running a firewall, anti-virus and anti-spyware programs, however, why should we have to run these programs to help tend towards to perfect security?

I hated having to run multiple programs for security on Windows, not because I never had enough CPU or RAM (I rarely reach 50% of each, except for CPU when either compiling or folding) but because it had to do this.

Apart from security there were others reasons why I am using Linux:
- Configuarability: When I use a computer I want to have lots of control as to what as happening, on Windows I was unable to do this but since Linux allows you to view all your files it gives a lot of configurability. Do you know what modularization is? It's a term used in program for when you take a large problem, such as maintaining an OS, and splitting it into modules as so they're able to be configured on their own. I love being able to think "Hmm, why isn't this booting as I would want it? I know! I'll boot up SystemRescueCD and check my lilo.conf file" it gives me a sense of control as to what my computer does.

- Software: Why do programmers make open-source software (including the kernel)? It's for them to be able to use, they are more concerned with it's power rather than it's user-friendliness, however, who are most commercial products aimed at? *Normal* users, they're more concerned with user-friendliness, since, if it's user-friendly, it will sell more. I would much rather use a program aimed towards power and flexibility rather than user-friendly. A counter-argument to this is that a lot of open-source software is available to run on the Windows platform, however, remember, the kernel is still open-source. (I think it is at least)

- Learning Factor: I think computers are great, I want to continue learning them but I have decided to do a Maths degree next year so I won't be learning anything to do with computers in college anymore... using Linux allows me to learn about computers in general which is what I want to do? Does Windows give this option?

If you've tried Linux and never liked it that's fine. Linux doesn't aim to be the perfect OS for everybody in the world, I doubt that's possible. Linux is for the more curious, persisant and geeky (implied from curious?) user, if you don't fit those characteristics, it's unlikely (though still possible) Linux is for you.

Thanks
Tom

Re: why bother with linux
 

You're isolating when using MS products into a MS propietary island, ie: using the .doc format.

A hacker uses w/e OS he/she see fit.
Using a specific OS won't turn someone into a hacker.

Yet another one of these whining topics? How much does MS pay you guys to post this stuff anyway?

Use windows, be happy, and get over it already.

I'm actually part of an underground Microsoft society known as project Unity and junior member of the microsoft marketing committee. We share close ties with linsux and our general startegy is to use the internet and various other forms of media to spread the 'glory' of Microsoft. We try to pose as *nix users and and either convert or destroy the opposition waiting until the last moment to expose our true colors. It won't be long before the free software movement is destroyed! Mwuhuhuhahahahahah!


No seriously man, MS is'nt paying me(you can't be that paranoid right?). I just wanted to see what you guys replies would be.

:cry: okay sir.

*sniff

Re: why bother with linux
 

Freedom. With Linux, you don't get a massive EULA telling you that you have no rights and that anything that goes wrong is your fault. You can change it to however you want since the source is open. Also, some people may want to escape from windows because of the DRM junk that'll be in Windows Vista.

In the end, if Linux isn't for you, you shouldn't use it. Some people like it, some don't.

I came to Linux not because I was displeased with Windows, but because I wanted an adventure. I installed a Linux distribution for the fun of it... and as a completely unintended result, it ended up changing how I use the computer.

my theory on the matter is the freedom that linux allows you, my hs comp sci teacher said this once:

"You see, the thing about windows is, it will let you do a bit of damage to itself, say, blow your own foot off, but with linux, if you really want to, you can blow your head off"

They "pay" comment was intended as a bit of humor to soften the "whining" part. The first part of your reply indicated that maybe you recognized that, but the second part tells me it was probably over your head (much like Linux).

Look, if you had been here for a while, or read through the forums, you would understand that we see one of these whining "windows is easier", "windows is better", "linux is too hard" type posts at least once a week. They aren't productive in any way and to be honest most of us get a little tired of seeing them.

If Linux is too difficult for you, you don't want to invest the time to learn how to configure and use Linux, or Windows simply serves you better that's great. More power to you. Use Windows and be happy with your choice.

Most of us here are more than happy to help answer questions, help people learn, and assist with figuring out problems. But we (by we I mean me) are more than a little tired of whining rants about how Linux is too hard and basic Windows fanboy type posts. It's nothing personal against you, it's just these typs of pointless posts are little more than forum pollution.

If you just wanted to see what we would say, read through the multitude of threads exactly like this one.

Hmmm, thats not encouraging at all is it?

Hey, I read about you guys! MS employees who troll Linux forums.

In case you didn't notice :rolleyes: this thread that you started is quite absurd, ant let me tell you that your attitude towards Linux is absolutely clear, so please use windows.

Just for the record I'll try to unveil some fallacious things that you have said.

This is not good, instead of wasting your time switching OS why just not stay in windows?, it's clear that you never have the intention of being a Linux user, don't you think it's at least unwise to critize something that you didn't even know well? and It's obvious why you spent most of your time configuring, if you switched again, and again.... what a waste of time.

Hmmm. this may be true for your experience, but definitely its not mine and from others. You generalize as if your experience was the only one worth of being considered. Some of us have serious issues with windows, or as you put it unforgivable problems... don't you think that our experiences also count?

False, again generalization and FUD. Did you visit this link?. http://sourceforge.net/ before stating that?. Please inform yourself better next time... And if there was some bit of true in your argument, be more specific, as you put it: False!.

Finally something that you are right. The point is do we care???

This is hilarious, it sounds as if somebody were pointing you with a gun and forcing you to use Linux. One of the things that makes Linux great is that Linux gives you the CHOICE of being part of this community (meaning you are not alone, if that's what scares you), anyway, please don'f feel that way, use windows.

Why you were convincing people of using Linux?, it's the most stupid thing to do. We Linux users use it because we like it, it's our CHOICE. Speaking by myself, nobody convince me, and I don't think convincing people of using Linux is good. On the other hand I do like to share this fantastic experience with others, if they want to use Linux it's their decision not mine.

False, this is FUD at its best. Please read a little bit more and learn a little bit, it'll be good for you. Seriously...

Although you may have some interesting to tell here, your generalization is absolutely wrong. Perhaps you were referencing to the GUI (just one more part of the OS), in that case It may be good for you to review some distros, you will see that indeed there are some distros that try to mimic windows GUI (absurd for me) but there are others that don't. Remember there is more than just the GUI in an OS.

I'm a newbie, perhaps I'll be a newbie all my life. Do I care, do others care?. You see this is one thing that I like about Linux I always learn something new, therefore I'll be a newbie for a long time. Ah, one more thing, I use Linux because I like it not because what people think/say about it, anyway if that's the case for you please use windows.

Finally, please use windows... and don't be such a troll.

Windows is not stable and I do not feel safe using them as the breaking down is a constant threat.So nobody can convince me that windows is even half as good as Linux.For me Windows is the most vulnerable system ever made on earth and I am fed up with it from the beginning I started using a computer.

why not use them both (to the original thread starter) I like my Windows machine and I like my Linux machine. My Windows machine is convenient for me and I know whatever program I purchase or download is pretty much going to work. I've only had 1 major system crash in 4 years, and have pretty much avoided spyware/viruses and the likes.

My Linux machine, I love it for learning, exploring and just the general sense that its something new. A fresh alternative from the point and click world of Windows yet I have the choice to point and click in *nix if I want. If I had a Mac Im sure I would enjoy that just as much. Im not biased towards one or the other, its all about my needs, uses and purpose.

I would agree, i most definately need a windows system, but i love to learn new things so i dual boot xp and redhat, works great for me, and yes you do spend more time tweaking linux, but that is the best part, windows forces you to leave it alone in most cases, but with linux you can easily modify something you would want to. and the best part about linux is it is totally free and unlike xp comes with more than just a core set of apps, even most of the software on the net for linux is free, i think the only thing i have paid for is limewire pro

No its still probably second or third on the list. The most vulnerable system on the earth is probably the internet itself. Next on the list is the media,television and other forms of mass communication. Both can be easily abused and manipulated.
The difference is the internet can immediately and drastically affect every systrem attached to it.

Now thats just absurd. We,*cough* I mean um MS Employees have way better things to do than this. Besides, flaming and trolling just makes you look stupid and ignorant. None of which I am guilty of, ofcourse. Just expressing a feeling really.

Just expressing a feeling? Try walking into a gourmet restaurant or something and say "Why bother with this stuff when there's a perfectly good McDonalds down the road?"

lol!
A fun little analogy. I'll be sure to try it. Come to think of it, those gormet restaurants are little bit slow and sadly often overpriced. Or sometimes completely mislabled. A little bit skimpy with extras too.

"Whats this plate with this tiny piece of chicken and leaves next to it?"

"Bah!"

"Why bother with this stuff when there's a perfectly good McDonalds down the road?"

Millions of mcdonalds but only handfuls of gourmet restaurants and even fewer real ones.


Hmmm. I wonder if there could be a reason for it all.

At McDonald's you spend more time "getting stuff done." You don't have to waste time chitchatting with a waiter, figuring out the proper tip percentage, waiting for your food to arrive, or finding a good seat. You can just go in, order, pick it up, eat it quickly ("fast food," right?) and start doing something productive. Why would you want to enjoy your food and have ambience?

:D When did the internet crash and I didn't notice???

The millions of badly or unprotected Windows machines are vulnerable because they're connected to it. Yet the internet in itself is quite solid.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by slantoflight
Although you may have some interesting to tell here, your generalization is absolutely wrong. Perhaps you were referencing to the GUI (just one more part of the OS), in that case It may be good for you to review some distros, you will see that indeed there are some distros that try to mimic windows GUI (absurd for me) but there are others that don't. Remember there is more than just the GUI in an OS.

Really? Where? Help me out here. I could be wrong.

Maybe that taskbar at the bottom of the screen with the clock at right hand
side, is'nt anything I've seen before.

Maybe that arrangement of applications and settings in the start menu is'nt familiar at all really.

Maybe that control panel is'nt a slightly more complicated version of something I've seen before.
/QUOTE]

Fluxbox, Gnome, Blackbox, WindowMaker, IceWM, XFCE,... oh hell, just google for Linux window managers you'll find many many choices. Unlike windows where you use what they give you, Linux is about choice, and that includes what kind of GUI you want to use. You really should do some research as you obviously know very little about Linux.

Yes, KDE does resemble the windows GUI. That was done intentionally to help windows users transition to Linux while still using something that is reasonably familiar. But KDE is hardly the only GUI available for Linux. Far from it.

why bother with linux ??
either you are underfed or overfed
but ... geeeeeze !! they are overhere !!

.

And yet the internet is only safe as the million of vulnerable computers connected to it. NO computer that is connected to the internet is 100% safe.

Actually the internet did come close to crashing, one time. You can read about here.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.07/slammer.htm
l

RE:
 

true, the internet is the superhighway and everyones PC is the cars and some people are driving dangerously to try and run others off the road and many (clueless Windows users) are driving without any insurance while riding in shabby cars.

I didnt say the internet was safe, I said it was quite solid. Nor did I say only Windows computers are badly or unprotected. Yet a system that runs linux is a lot safer out of the box than a windows system is.


So it did....almost.

Oh and what was the machine that started the spread running according to the link you provided? ;)