wtf ubuntu: i wish i didnt have to use you (rave)
ok yes sorry this is a little pointless. but does anyone else feel like i do?
honesty i wish i didnt have to use ubuntu. its gnome based, and it doesnt have most of the features i look for in a distro. also, as of the last release, suspend doesnt work. the problem is, its still the most stable and relyable disto out there. ive had trouble with kubuntu, and almost all other kde based distros are rpm based. (no i will not use mepis) I just hate the way ubuntu is going. its so close to being a truly compleate disto, however, i seems to be heading in compleatly the wrong direction. Personaly, i feel gnome is going nowhere compared to kde (kde 4) and even enlightenment seems to be making a ton of progress. i fear that when kde 4 comes out, kubuntu will do a poor job of including it. And besides, kubuntu only gets about half of the new features ubuntu gets, and recieves far less attention/testing. (more rant) i dont belive ubuntu doesnt have a -control panel- it is SO important. even when they tried to add a simple panel for all the dozens of menu entries to go, people complained and for some reason they got their way. Ubuntu needs a control center like suse or pclinuxos or mandriva. (note all the commercial distros have control centers) Honestly i love linux, and will still get by with ubuntu over windows. but i really feel like nobody can get it right and just when someone gets sooo close, they get a few MAJOR parts wrong BTW i think the future is with either kde or enlightenment. but there are no distros that do a good enough job of including them |
Could you please repeat your question?
I have tried maybe 30 distros in the past two years and now have 2 favorites: Mepis6.5 and Kubuntu, in that order. OpenSUSE 10.2 would be a very close 3rd, but I still favor the apt/Synaptic package management. From my point of view, I don't find your rant to be very credible....Sorry. |
Quote:
I don't really use ubuntu as I'm a developer and wants everything from scratch... LFS is my choice... But ubuntu is not bad for end users IMHO :) |
Quote:
Quote:
Have you created threads for your issues? Quote:
Quote:
Each time you make a statement like this, without backing it up, you lose points. OTOH: if you make a case, people will listen to you. You are in a good position here too... there are Ubuntu (and Mepis) developers reading this ;) Quote:
Quote:
BTW: have you tried installing the KDE desktop to Ubuntu? (So far you seem to want Ubuntu, but with KDE.) Quote:
Quote:
Anyway, I suspect you are just going to have to accept that nobody is going to make your idea of the perfect distro (except, of course, you.) There will always be one that is annoyingly close. It will always seem to spiral off the one true path. Live with it. Interestingly, if I feed the above rant details into a distro chooser, it suggests SUSE for you, followed by Debian! It strikes me that you are most likely to get the desktop experience you crave with one of the more hard-core distros like this (or Slackware, or Gentoo)... you can get the exact mix of features you want this way. You will find the first one will be a bit of a pita compared with ubuntu... but after that it will be easy. |
ok some clarification
i wont use an rpm distro. they lack the central reposatory that is so nice in debian (and debian derived distros) which is one of the main reasons i am using linux. Rpm distros in my opinion also tend to be more bloated, and slow. About kubuntu not haveing the same features as ubuntu, sorry it was late, thats not really what i meant. I meant that all the other "official" ubuntu variants (kubuntu, xubuntu, edubutu) are not kept up to as nearly a high standard as ubuntu is. For example, xubuntu lacked an easy way to connect to wireless networks. Also i noticed Kubuntu has a quite highly customized control panel, but when it comes to ubuntu a control panel is denied. Edubutu is actually quite good, but thats because it just has added packages+theams mainly. Ubuntu's direction. An Operating system should try to include all the programs a person will generally use. Now i know ubuntu's "keep it simple" motto, and "one app for each perpose" and i like it. But that about file backup? virus scanning? (yes there are viruses for linux!) firewall customizeation? even disk partitioning? (which is included in the installer but not the installed version). For example, Windows XP and Mac OSX both include graphical programs to do almost everything needed to maintaine a system. On ubuntu, i find i have to add another dozen programs to equal this functionality. And this is fine for me, but what about others? they arnt going to know that functionality like this can be added through Add/Remove Programs. Why you ask? becase based on what they know, these kind of this are "built into the os". So their first reaction will be something like "linux doesnt have a firewall?" or "linux cant back up my files?". Now almost all of this functionality is avalible through add/remove programs and often integrates perfectly into the os. Why isnt this included? because it wont all fit on a cd rom. Another bad point about ubuntu. They keep it all on one cd, which is fine. Until you start loosing features included in other os's because they wont use a dvd. Also, for some reason, Ubuntu insists of releasing every 6 months. Why? If they moved it to a main release every year and a bug fix/minor releases every 6 months they could get so much more done. They cannot make many drastic changes because they dont have the time. Also, how do you expect people with the new "ubuntu cirtified training" to keep up in an enterprise enviroment. Should everyone be re-trained every six months? This alown would make Ubuntu more expensive to run then Windows. You know many big buisness still use Windows 2000? I know Ubuntu is trying to deal with this with LTS releases but is that certian yet? When is every LTS release? every 2 years? Or every third release? Honestly I think im going to start my own ubuntu derived distro. (yes i know BAD right?) Im just so fed up with distros being so cloase to getting it just right. Especialy one like ubuntu, which has so much power. Btw, isnt Yellowdog and ppc/ps3 distro? i know they used to have i386 versions but they dropped that long ago right? |
Actually, kubuntu, edubuntu, and ubuntu are all part of the same resource: ubuntu. So, if you download kubuntu, you're getting ubuntu without gnome packages, and with kde packages. If you find something that you want in your kubuntu installation that doesn't come as default (and is included by default in ubuntu), just apt-get install it.
|
Quote:
Quote:
If you have the skills to write code, then I would rather see you work on existing issues that cut across the whole community---why strive to become #325 on the Distrowatch ranking? |
as I explained, the average user switching from windows or OSX is not going to know how, or even that they can add these things. And who says they are going to have internet? Installing programs withough internet on linux is a pain anyway, and there is no "supported" way to do this.
My point is that even though ubuntu is "the most user friendly" distro i still cant reccomend it to the average user. and pixellany, i would contribute to ubuntu, execpt that contuarary to the "open sorce" and "humanity" image ubuntu projects i found it quite difficult to contribute, and found the developer/contributer community quite closed minded. I dont care if my distro is even on distrowatch, in fact it most likely wont tecknically be a distro... I just want to be able to hand someone a disk, and know that using it wont compleatly discourage them from using linux. |
Quote:
Quote:
Personally I have never used Windows' backup programs (did not even know that it is included). I'm sure that 90% of the Windows users don't even use it; look on any forum (windows, linux) and see the posts where people lost so-called valuable data due to crash or people who want to switch to Linux and start with "I don't want to loose any data". Windows XP also does not come with a virus scanner (as far as I know). If you're talking about an OS, virus scanners and office suites and so on are not part of an OS, so MS is correct from that perspective. Neither does a GUI belong in there (but that's my humble opionion). Quote:
Quote:
I think enterprises will go for LTS versions. Who cares about 3D effects etc in an enterprise? Further. in my opinion, most releases are 'minor' improvements anyway. From there I don't see the need for re-training. Quote:
On the other hand, just create a CD with all possible add-ons and you're there as well. Quote:
PS my list of required SW if you decide to start your own distro and you want me to ever use your distro instead of the ones that I use now: Gnome and a light weight alternative development tools like Tcl/Tk, C compiler, GTK codecs Apache, MySql and PHP OpenOffice and evolution as well as leight weight alternatives drivers for my nvidia card (not NV) image and video editing software |
Quote:
wahhh.. If you dont like it, use something else. I personally really like Ubuntu, as do a majority of the folks out there. Like it or not, it might be Ubuntu that finally breaks the Windows curse with OEM PC's. Ubuntu is a little slower than Debian, but more user friendly. So what frustration free distro do you suggest to newbies? Gentoo? Slack? :rolleyes: Maybe you should try LFS. IGF |
Yes.Debian i feel is really more stable than Ubuntu(no flameS!!)
and GNOME is better for me.I like the simple and userfriendly gui of GNOME.Yes,GNOME went too simpler following their Human Interface Guidelines(HIG) with versions of GNOME-2.8 to GNOME-2.12.I sincerely feels with GNOME reaching 2.18,it's still a BIG competitor for DE market alongwith KDE. Hopes GNOME-3.0 development to begin rewriting those HIG to make it an agenda like kde to attract Windows users to GNU/Linux and GNOME. But i can understand that most people cannot think or use anything other than kde(4) and oh,yes its ur choice.still kde is windows`ish is-my idea.and qt is something which i feel will not go with a gtk2 only distro(ubuntu).so they(cannonical) made kubuntu for kde nirvana.so at the end,most are happy with their GNOME or Kde and some are in forums flaming(bashing) other DE's. :) yeah,i know some wants to make Ubuntu defaults to kde and kubuntu dissolved to get Gubuntu for GNOME.so nice :lol: |
Just install kde on ubuntu. Problem solved.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
File backup is provided by tar. The partition manipulator is parted (yes - in the default install!) Firewall is provided by iptables. There are plenty of googleable scripts available much faster than providing a gui. AV is provided by clamAV but requires a download. However, you should name three linux viruses currently active to even begin to support your claim for the need. (Symantec, for eg, have no linux viruses above category 2.) We normally run AV software to protect other peoples computers from windows viruses. The software exists in all but one case. What you mean is, you want a GUI for these things. Quote:
Quote:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...02#post2775502 Alternatively, they pay a vendor to pre-install the functionality they want. Failing that, they hunt for gratis software online... and all the "functionality" in the "add/remove programs" is duplicated and improved upon by third parties. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
With Ubuntu, you need only upgrade to every third release (18 month upgrade/support cycle) ut new installations can include updated security and bug fixes on one CD. Reducing downtime. Then there are LTS releases. Quote:
2. Each major release has, in fact, seen significant changes... usually focussing on one area of development at a time. 3. Vista took 5 years and still didn't produce any drastic changes. Hence, cycle-length does not correlate to ability to make changes. Quote:
If you have been Ubuntu Certified, then you have demonstrated the skills needed to keep up anyway. Quote:
But a very large number are still using Win2k server! When NT4 support folded, everyone moved to WinXP on the enterprise/business desktop. (Win2k was considered too unstable.) What was your point again? Quote:
Quote:
Remember, the support cycle is what's important for existing installations. While there are more frequent "maintenance" releases there is, as yet, no fixed release cycle. If 6.06 stops being used, don't expect another LTS release (no demand would suggest that sysadmins are happy to use main-sequence upgrades). However, all other things equal, expect the next LTS release 2-3 years after the previous one. (Some have suggested 4 years as more likely, but that dosn't square well with the 3-year desktop support.) Quote:
However, this will actually involve more work than what you are doing right now! Quote:
There is also Elbuntu ... Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I should point out that the users you seem to be talking about, if they even exist, should be using Linspire or Xandros and not Ubuntu. They, also, are not you. Quote:
Quote:
|
Another point is Viruses for Linux with increasing popularity is a growing FUD from AV companies esp kaspersky.I hope new linux users reads below article
Note to New Linux users:No Antivirus needed. http://www.linux.com/articles/60208 The Frustration of AV companies can be understood as they lost another platform apart from windows to push their AV products. AVs are used in Linux in servers,e-mail servers esp for protecting windows customers :p reg viruses for linux: http://linuxmafia.com/%7Erick/faq/in...ge=virus#virus I suggest below link for those who expects GNU/Linux to be next "windows" http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm http://www.getgnulinux.org/switch_to...dows_to_linux/ |
Here's the magic: if and when you're not satisfied with an operating system, you can use some other ;)
I find no major problems about Ubuntu. Why a control panel? Because you can't open separate menu entries, or because you're unable to use the real programs? Read some documentation about common Unix principles, used in Linux too, and you should get why it's often better not to have a big thing like a common control center, but smaller ones (separate control tools) instead. Oh, and almost forgot to mention: if you really want a control center, you can build one of your own, as you can build anything you think the distribution lacks - that's why it's open source. You could get a bare Ubuntu base system, then download the official KDE packages and install them on it just the way you like. Ubuntu is an offer, not a must. The same goes for every distribution out there. Gnome and KDE have some ideological differences, in addition to their outfit and libraries. KDE suits for those it suits, Gnome for those Gnome suits. Neither is perfect. KDE is older, but in my opinion Gnome is more "user-friendly" out of the package. I know KDE-lovers now tell me "you can configure KDE just the way you like", but even then it's a hell lot of work. One of you could configure me a KDE that's one to one Gnome equivalent - I don't think it's going to be done in a day. If you're not satisfied with Gnome, don't use it - if KDE is not for you, don't use it - if you find one that you like, use that instead. God, nobody ever forced you to use the default desktop against your will.. And if KDE is releasing version 4 (which isn't as of now, if I understood it right, not going to be an explosion to the upper levels of heaven, it's more inside work than outside work, so it won't differ from KDE3 that much for the end-user), it doesn't mean Gnome should right away release version 4 too. Gnome 3.0 is in plans, but I hope they don't release it just because they want big numbers; KDE has had some rush releases that haven't worked correctly, like Gnome too, and hopefully they've learnt, like others, that a release should not be made until it's ready. Think before you speak, fix before you weep. You've got your hands, you've got the tools so apparently it's only your will that's missing: if you complain, you should be able to make things better. If you're unable to make things better, don't complain too much. Just tell what's wrong and hope somebody has the time to fix it for you, so you could go on weeping about another matter of no importance. |
|
I am frankly amazed at the amount of attention we have given to what was basically a petty whine session from OP. Perhaps it's time to stop......
|
lol yes please do stop im quite ashamed of starting such a useless thread... mods feel free to cloase it
im thinking of using linux mint to reccomend to new users, it is ubuntu made easy(er). Newbies should check it out. Meanwhile im using elive for now, an live cd/distro using e17 as the wm. It is extreamly well put together, with eye candy that takes your breath away. Min reqs? anything from this century, literally. |
Quote:
This sort of thing can become constructive as specific complaints get examined and others weigh in. The examination has happened, to a positive finish too... this thread should close. |
Closed to save blushes. :)
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:16 AM. |