I have installed the Mate desktop v. 1.6.0 on Debian and I am pleased with how it works. However, some applications on Debian seem a little out of date and for the moment I have not gone down the road of updating ahead of the repos.

I then installed Mate 1.8 on Ubuntu 14.04. Right from the start I noticed that the "File, Edit, View..." tool bar is missing from windows in applications such as Files (Nautilus replacement). In Mate/Debian I have an option to set "View; Main toolbar." There is no such option that I can find in Mate/Ubuntu.

Am I missing something or is this a Ubuntu phenomenon? I suspect that it might be related to the window manager underlying Mate. If that is so... changing the window manager is a little beyond my experience.

TIA,

Ken

Wheezy (Debian 7) is what Ubuntu 12.04 is based on.

Ubuntu 14.04 is based on Jessie (Debian testing - Will be Debian 8).

Jessie is in freeze right now to prepare for release. Is pretty stable, stable enough for the Ubuntu folks to base there LTS on anyway.

If I were you I would install Jessie with mate.

On the other hand my wife uses Wheezy/Mate on her box just fine. While the applications may not be a new they are more reliable. The newer the application the more little bugs are still crawling around in it.

The potential problem with installing Wheezy, waiting a few months for Jessie to be released and upgrading to it is the switch to systemd. This is a big change and I don't know how well the upgrade is going to work or how much you should do to Wheezy when you upgrade to Jessie. That will, I am sure, all be covered in the release notes and Wheezy/Jessie upgrade notes.

My concern comes from doing a coupld upgrades, due to the demise of my old box and then some months to build this one (I am not made of money). The upgrades for the installs on the drives from the old box were a bit rough.

I have not used the Jessie installer for a while and it may be straightened out now but had some problems with letting the installer do partitionin work. If you install Jessie I would do partitioning chores ahead of time with another install or a Live Session and have everything ready to use so that no formatting (other than for /swap) is done by the installer.

Other than that the new installer works really well. The problems I had were back in early Sept. and may well have been fixed.

Ubuntu is a Gnome based OS. I have not heard that Gnome Shell on top of Gnome 3 works all that well under Ubuntu. Mate probably struggles more than Gnome Shell.

It could be that Mate has replaced all Gnome packages with their own, I am not up to date on it.

You didn't say how you installed it on Ubuntu. I am not aware, don't pay attentiong to Ubuntu, of a Mate image available from them.

You could try a netinstall and put Mate on that. Doing that with Debian would, in my mind be a better choice than Ubuntu.

MATE 1.8 is available for Wheezy by using the backports repository. I would suggest you use it instead of MATE 1.6 which has no official support unless it is used on a distro that installed it by default.

Nautilus replacement is called Caja. The ubuntu MATE devs have a supported Ubuntu MATE 14.04 download available (https://ubuntu-mate.org/download/) with everything set up for you. It may be worth your while downloading it and installing the "official" version.

It may be a problem in Marco (MATE's window manager) but I doubt it. I suspect something screwy has happened when you installed MATE. Did you install MATE on top of Unity?

Thanks k3lt01,

I did install Mate on top of a Unity install. I am not sure how to install Ubuntu without Unity unless I use Ubuntu server. Let me pull down the Alternate install image - I think there is still such a thing - and see what I can built from that.

Ken

Ubuntu has a netinstall image. Just installs the base system and you add what you want. This would be the best way to go.

Thanks widget,

I see that the "alternate" image - which if I recall correctlty allowed a text install - is not available for 14 +. I have tried several times to download the server inmage and ubuntu.com has dropped out during the process. I will have to give the net install a try.

Ken

I provided a link for you to get the UbuntuMATE iso in my previous post.

Thanks k3lt01. Sorry I missed it. I need to clean my glasses. I will download it and give it a try.

Ken

There is also this page which tells you how to install UbuntuMATE from scratch
https://ubuntu-mate.org/blog/2014-08...-from-scratch/
Using this method you will get the latest packages immediately.

I have to admit I haven't kept up to date with Ubuntu, but I do keep up to date with MATE on Debian type systems.

That is a good looking link. Sounds like they have even done it.

Sounds like Ubuntu is still using the Debian netboot installer.

Wonder what the problem with /etc/skel getting copied correctly by the installer is.

At least the buggers caught it and gave the work around for it.

Those slick folks at Ubuntu still can't get this stuff right. Good thing they have fans that write things up so they work.

Martin Wimpress, the lead person in the UbuntuMATE team, is actually an Arch user but has put alot of work into getting MATE into Ubuntu. He is also a MATE dev and has a natural knack in working through issues

As far as I am aware there is very little of Ubuntu that isn't Debian (Unity being the exception to the rule). The installer is basically a Sid installer (or testing if it is an LTS) "adjusted" to suit Ubuntu.

No idea but I have seen a similar (not identical) issue in DebianLive as well.

Like I said Martin has a natural knack of working through things.

Martin is a good spokesperson for MATE, he appears to have a genuine desire for MATE and because of that he was willing to take it to Ubuntu (even though he is an Arch user) and work through problems to help MATE gain a much wider user base.

Just as an aside with regards to getting stuff right a friend of mine on an automotive forum has this in his signature.
I think many people have a near enough is good enough attitude, reputation should be achieved through excellence not through a huge user base of sheep who like bling.

While I really prefer Xfce, Mate is a really nice DE. My wife loves it. Really one of the forks that really works wonders.

I love your last quote. Blacksmiths, by and large, seem reluctant to put their names in forward positions. Not sure why. It is not like we are shy. I went to a seminar with one of the leading restoration guys one time (he reproduced a lot of cast brase hardware for historic buildings in New England) who specializes in iron door hardware. He was really upset with the habit of hiding the name of the Smith. He said no painters of any account signed their work on the back. Put it on the front and make sure it is worthy of your name. If you can't sign it on the front it is just not up to standards. He is right. He meant the same thing as your quote.

A good rule to live by.

I am not sure where Debian puts all their stuff. Haven't used the Debian Live images much. But did for this install of Sid that I am on now was intalled from the Jessie default install media (not live). Don't usually work here but thought it needed the exercise. The host name for this one is Victim.Debian. Used as a mine canary for my "real" Sid install.
I have no idea what those first two (. and ..) are, not visible to my eye when looking at the other .foo files there. Have never really looked for the rest of what I would asume to be there like /home/<user> default files and things like .config. Will have to find out someday. Just too many things I am curious about for that to be high on the list.

Assume your current location is your home directory.
The first one (.) is the current directory. I.e. "/home/<username> directory
The second (..) is a parent directory of the current location. I.e. "/home" directory

Although they are not visible when looking at file manager, you can use them in bash scripts or terminal/console

and
is the same command if you are at your home directory.

This forum is disgusting. I keep reading these things and learning.

I am now in that age group known, in the USA anywy, as "older white men". We are not supposed to learn anything new. Or approve of the process apparently. Oh well, I never fit into any group all that well.

Thanks.

Except it's the other way around.

. = current
.. = parent