im undecided as to which version to use myself, if i install ubuntu and then use apt-get to install kde i find it sluggish and the worst part is that there are so many missing icons from the menus that it looks horrible , i would just bite the bullet and use ubuntu(gnome) but there are a few apps that seem to only want to work on kde

Just a note, my if you will:

Ubuntu uses Gnome for a reason. It's the way the developers wanted to go for the OS. Kubuntu is the split using KDE. It works better than slapping KDE into Ubuntu. That being said, KDE in a Debian-like build = crap.

Options:

1) Give up and go back to SuSE and deal with slow bloatware and hope they stop ruining it eventually.

2) Get used to Gnome, learn to customize the hell out of it and really love it as it is.

Pick 1.

Personally, I used to love KDE. Now, I can't stand it. And I started off in Windows, then dual-booted RH, then SuSE...stayed with SuSE for a good while, until it turned to bloated crap, then switched to Ubuntu, wanted KDE so bad...until I woke up one day and said, "Hey, I switched to this because it was faster, more stable, and had a ton more software. Maybe I should just learn to work with it as it is before trying to screw it up..."

And lo, I gained wisdom that day. And a stable as hell OS that makes me quite happy.

Cheers,
Lord Ghost

Why is KDE in a Debian-like build `crap?' Have you ever used (Simply)MEPIS or KNOPPIX?
Oversimplification: even if KDE and Debian can't mix, there are other distributions that use KDE. Mandriva and PCLinuxOS.
Sorry, but this whole post was one big over-simplification. Please don't spread FUD. My personal experience with Kubuntu was not "crap" in the least. In fact, I use it on some of my systems (next to Gentoo on the other.)
As for the reason for this post, Ubuntu uses GNOME because GNOME uses the same release cycle as Ubuntu (6 month).

That's true. You need to install the entire desktop, not just KDE.
To do that, in a terminal window, type:

During the installation, you will be asked which dm you want as your default. You can always choose between the two at start-up. FWIW- I recently installed the KDE desktop on my Ubuntu machine, and I love it. BTW, don't forget to restart Ubuntu once it's finished installing.

Cheers

I am running Kubuntu, and my update notifier and -manager work perfect. I can't tell why Rory's updater doesn't work.

The reason it would make a difference is that when installing individual packages, many people don't install the entire desktop. They are then left with a confusing, half-broken mix when booting kde. (see my previous post)

Kubuntu-desktop loaded onto Ubuntu has worked perfectly for me as well, and is faster than Gnome on my system. Adept also works faster with updates. Trust me, I was a hard-core Gnome user until I tried KDE on Ubuntu. Just my

Cheers

First off, please note that I said, it was just simply my two cents. I expressed it simplified because this is a thread being brought up, presumably, by someone fairly new to the scene.

Burying someone in technical data to show off my epeen does him no good. Burying him in 100 different distros he "could try" until he was sick to death of trying and failing at various distros, really wouldn't help much either.

I stuck with the basics. I said, "Hey, give it a try before saying, 'But I want my KDE!'" because I've personally been there. I gave him a different viewpoint and something to consider.

I'm dreadfully sorry if this hurt your PHD mindset of Linux sensibilities and technicalities, but I wasn't posting for you.

FYI, I have indeed used Knoppix, Mepis, and even know the person who made Whippix, a modification of Knoppix that was more stable.

I also know they were geared directly to work with KDE, ergo the bugs that generally come up when dealing with putting together KDE + Generic Debian build don't occur.

I also happen to know that they have greatly improved upon the desktop from the days that it was more unstable and flaky than even Windows itself, and I give it credit for that.

Now, if you are done spanking me properly for not doing things YOUR way, I'll be happy to continue to offer SIMPLE ADVICE TO THE NEW PEOPLE so they don't get BURIED in the technicalities before they even get started.

If you have a problem with that, please please PLEASE take it up with the moderators and owners of the site and BEG them to REMOVE ME if it bothers you so greatly.

Otherwise, do me a favor - if I'm not speaking to you, don't speak to me. I don't have any interest in slavering fanbois from ANY OS, and really don't care if there are AMAZING versions of remote distros that never hit the mainstream.

What I care about are new comers to Linux STAYING with Linux because they can learn slowly, simply and easily because SOMEONE in here is offering them some simple basic views on things, not "OMG THERE'S THIS AND THIS AND THIS AND THIS, AND OH YEAH MY FRIEND BOB'S SISTER'S COUSIN'S BROTHER HAD A PROBLEM WITH THIS ONE PIECE OF HARDWARE THAT WE COULDN'T FIND DRIVERS FOR AND SO I HAD TO BUILD THEM FOR HIM OVERNIGHT (BOY WASN'T THAT A PAIN!!!) AND THEN THERE'S THIS AND THAT AND THIS AND THAT BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH."

There's a thing called technical overload. Newcomers suffer it very rapidly. So, before bitching about me oversimplifying it, think about how many people actually point out alternatives as I did, and different points of view, as I have.

Now consider how many times people sit there and flood newcomers with technical data they're not ready for, or suggest 1,000 different distros and how many of them are their personal faves and how great they are (even though some of them might take ADVANCED skills just to INSTALL THEM) and how so many of these newcomers seem to fade away after awhile.

You know where they fade away to?

Windows.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Cheers,
Ghost

Restart is disabled because gdm is installed instead of kdm. I read somewhere that gdm is more secure as a desktop manager, but all I've really noticed is that it disabled the restart and shut down options, creating the need for further configuration. Kdm loads the K libraries earlier as well, so if you plan on using KDE, you'll want to use kdm.

I find that Kubuntu is preferable over ubuntu + KDE since installing the KDE package loads all the K apps (bloat) I don't use. I find Adept buggy though, I mostly use the adept-notifier to let me know when upgrades are available, and use aptitude or apt-get to install the updates.

Lord Ghost, with all respect, you have managed to kill off what was for this newbie an interesting thread. Please think again before trying to shame people out of gathering information and weighting options. Not everyone is stressed by information. Kind regards.

Just my 2 cents regarding KDE on Debian. Using Debian Lenny, I use KDE mainly and Gnome once in a while. If I want to stay with Gnome for a while I switch the default manager to GDM. That gets me the shutdown in Gnome. For KDE most of the time, KDM offers shutdown in KDE.

But KDE in Debian is essentially as released by KDE. It works great! Every bit as well as SUSE, which I also use from time to time. Heck, even the SUSE look is available with kwin-style-suse2. Heh, gives you the color scheme and the decorator. Not using it now in Lenny but if I get nostalgic I apply it, and a wallpaper I stored away. Couple of adjustments to the Kicker bar and it's essentially OpenSUSE (without that new Kickoff menu).

I haven't experienced Kubuntu (or Ubuntu) except for Live mode, but Debian offers a complete version of KDE that is speedy, works well, and well, I like it!

Just couldn't let that KDE stinks on anything Debian go by.

Look at how old most of this thread is...some of the issues being described are old problems. That said, the Lord Ghost comments are from this year and are way off base. I don't think he ever tried KDE in Debian; possibly never tried Debian at all. I'm guessing he tried KDE in Ubuntu back before they worked out all of the bugs (i.e. it's their own damn fault KDE was broken in Ubuntu because of their lack of root password, but eventually KDE patched things up so Ubuntu could work). I doubt he's tried KDE in Ubuntu in years; I don't think there are any problems with simply installing KDE in Ubuntu nowadays.

Anyways...

Ever since Debian Etch, KDE can shutdown gdm and GNOME can shutdown kdm. I'm guessing you got used to installing kdm to get shutdown in Debian Sarge's KDE, and simply never broke that habit.

Back when I was using Debian Sarge, I used KDE and installed kdm for convenience. Ever since Debian Etch, I just leave it with the default gdm even though I use KDE.

Well, how do you like that? Glad you pointed out the dates. I just saw it near the top because the other posters had revived it.

Regarding that KDM, GDM thing, my first Debian install was a couple of months after the Etch release and I instantly dist-upgraded to Lenny. So no Sarge experience here.

Perhaps it's because of the way I install Debian but my KDM will not put a shutdown option in the Gnome menu, nor will my GDM put a shutdown option in the KMenu. Maybe it's because I get both installed with the tasks and with both on the system this is what happens?

Once the standard system is dist-upgraded to testing I run aptitude and have it install the desktop, gnome-desktop, and kde-desktop tasks and choose KDM as default when asked and then reboot into KDE. Once I'm all installed and working with all the update-alternatives --config set to the KDE stuff, I go into Gnome and setup a few things, then go back to KDE and live there.

If I want to use Gnome for a while I switch all the update-alternatives --config to the Gnome stuff, dpkg-reconfigure the gdm and kdm to set gdm as default, and boot into Gnome for everything from then on.

Maybe if I installed the usual way, without tasks and just picking the stuff, and just either KDM or GDM, I'd get the shutdown from both kde and gnome menus. Not that important to me though.

Yes sir, In Debian etch, both KDE and Gnome coexist in total harmony in my computer. But why this issue was raised? I droped here by accident looking for compatibility issues with Compiz-Fusion between Gnome and KDE isntalled side by side. It really shouldnt be a problem at all. In my opinion, Ubuntu is just a distro without KDE, and Kubuntu is a distro without Gnome, period. I have always installed side by side both desktops since the olden days of Mandrake, then Mandriva, then SUSE and now I am in Debian Etch, switching from one desktop to another, and using Gnome applications within KDE and viceversa. Is that surprising? If this is not great, then what is that people ask for. It is great that the two most popular desktops can be installed together in the same computer. Now, I dont know if there are some redundancies that occur, but never had a problem as far as I know. I love to have two different faces of my computer. Cheers ^:^