Gnome 3: is Ubuntu in or out?
 

I'm currently using Ubuntu 11.04, with old-school Gnome 2 desktop. Just the way I like it.

However, I just installed Ubuntu 12.04 on a friend's laptop and - horror - you do not appear to be able to fall back to Gnome 2 on 12.04. You either get Unity desktop or Gnome 3. (Or xcfe if you care to install it).

I searched the internet and found a reference to Ubuntu dropping the option to switch into Gnome 2 at login, when the released Ubuntu 11.10.

When I eventually upgrade my Linux box, I started wondering whether to go for a completely different distro, or at least one that still supports Gnome 2.

But I see that Gnome 3 is not universally popular, and I see one reference that says "Gnome already lost its top two desktop distributors in Ubuntu and Mint". So hang on - will future Ubuntu releases have Gnome 3 on them, or not? I see, conversely, references on some websites that the next Ubuntu will have a Gnome 2 fall back option again; but in that case, what does the reference to Gnome "losing its top two desktop distributors in Ubuntu and Mint" mean?

Can anyone shed an authoritative light on this? Will I be saying bye bye 'buntu and hello Mint, the next time I want to upgrade?

Please note that I have tried the procedure outlined here: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/g...-ever-changed/

... but I could still not obtain total classic Gnome as the window close button is on the far left of each window, not the right; and there does not appear any way to make the old "Human" theme work with 12.04...

All distros using Gnome, including Ubuntu and Mint, are using Gnome3. They are not, by default, using the default Gnome Desktop Environment (DE) which is Gnome Shell. The Gnome DE for Gnome2 was the Gnome Panels. This is no longer supported. It is gone unless you are using a fairly "old" version of some OS.

Mate is a fork of Gnome2 which I think (may be wrong) runs on top of Gnome3. Cinnamon is a Mint creation that uses their own extensions (I believe) to give you a Gnome Panels look and feel to Gnome Shell. They are both on the Mint Gnome Live CD.

There is Gnome Fallback that can be installed from the Ubuntu repos but is not a default install. That is what Ubuntu is talking about doing in the future. I don't think you will be impressed with Gnome Fallback as it is a very limited thing compared to the old Gnome Panels. It is also not supposed to be supported by the Gnome project for a long time. It is available now so that folks with hardware that will not support 3D compositing can use Gnome.

I think you shoudl give Xfce a try. The current version, Xfce4.8 (4.10 is out and should be used in Xubuntu 12.10), is a bit different from the Gnome Panels. As a long time user of Gnome Panels I can tell you that Gnome could go back to the old panels and I would stay with Xfce.

If you want a better implimentation of Xfce than Xubuntu 12.04 I would suggest Linux Mint Debian Edition Xfce. 12.04 and LMDE are both based on Debian testing (my production OS) and LMDE does a better job of giving you a stable version of Debian testing than Ubuntu does with their LTS. It is also a rolling release so it will always be up to date.

LMDE also has a Gnome version with Mate and Cinnamon.

Since you are a Debian user you should know better. The current stable debian uses Gnome 2, also Red Hat Enterprise Linux and derivatives, like CentOS and Scientific Linux.

Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 are not compatible. So a fork of Gnome 2 can't run on Gnome 3. Wouldn't make much sense anyways. Mate is a real fork, it actually is a renamed Gnome 2 and therefore not running on Gnome 3.

May be. Mint comes with Mate by default, so that may be an option, other options are SalixOS Mate, Snowlinux or SolusOS. SolusOS comes with Gnome 2, the developers plan to port Gnome 2 (or at least the Gnome 2 feeling) to Gnome 3 for their next version.

In addition to what has said above, you can generally get a pretty good idea (and possibly a near comprehensive listing) from distrowatch - a sample search filtered for MATE DE.

Linux Mint offers both Cinnamon and MATE - neither is default - different official images. MATE is quite nice if you do not want shell (or derivatives thereof) and/or unity. Cheers.

I've made the switch to Linux Mint since Mint 8 and never looked back.

I actually like Cinnamon...I'm sure you'll like it as well.

I'd say give Mint a shot

--Christian

@TobiSGD
Since you are a Debian user you should know better. The current stable debian uses Gnome 2, also Red Hat Enterprise Linux and derivatives, like CentOS and Scientific Linux.

I actually have Squeeze with Gnome installed. Use it for secure transactions.

The OP has mentioned no Ubuntu version that is of that vintage. Using newer stuff. Not many distros that are as up to date as he mentions are using Gnome2 in any configuration.

I am sure you know about Mate and perhaps you could tell me how Mate is going to maintain compatability with newer packages if it is sticking with Gnome2. Most things are now switching over to gtk3. For some reason I have the impression that Gnome2 is pretty well stuck with gtk2.

From the few screenshot I have seen Mate looks pretty good. I know several people that are using it and like it. Haven't heard anything real negative about it.

Do have some doubts about its long term chances but stranger things have hung on than that.

There seems to be an understanding problem. Mate is not sticking with Gnome 2, it is Gnome 2, just with renamed components. This renaming makes sure that there are no conflicts with Gnome 3, so it is totally possible to run Mate and Gnome 3 on the same OS without having problems and for example starting Gedit from Gnome 3 (renamed to mate-text-editor in Mate) when currently having Mate on the desktop.

Also, GTK2 and GTK3 can be run side by side, so if you install GTK3 on a machine it is no problem to run GTK3 apps on Mate.

Ah, should know that, sometimes I amaze myself, am running xfce4.8. Uses gtk2. 4.10 is supposed to go to gtk3 (or was the last I was reading about it). Would be having a bit of trouble myself if gtk3 was a problem.

XFCE 4.10 was released on 28th of April and still is GTK2 based. The change to GTK3 is aimed for XFCE 4.12.

Guess what, after Gnome 3 there will be a Gnome 4, after that there will be a Gnome 5, etc.

If you think Gnome 3 could be better, then help make it better. :)

http://www.gnome.org/get-involved/

What is the point of this post? The OP doesn't like Unity and Gnome 3/Gnome fallback mode and is asking for alternatives with Gnome 2 or something similar. How is pointing him to Gnome 3 development sites helpful here?

The "point" of my post was to answer the OP's question:

The answer, of course, is that Ubuntu will always use the current Gnome release, whether that is Gnome 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6. The good news is that the OP (or anyone else) can get involved with the Gnome Project and make it better. If you have a constructive suggestion to improve "fallback mode" I'm sure they would love to hear it. :)

Thank you everyone for your replies. I think the next time I do upgrade, probably next year, I'll either have a go at Mint or possibly still use Ubuntu but maybe download a different desktop environment.

I did yesterday install - on my current 11.04 Ubuntu - LXDE minimal. I had a quick look round and would probably find it more intuitive to use than the current Gnome 3 "where's the bloody task bar gone" desktop.

I've found websites that claim that Gnome 3 can be configured with certain themes to produce lots of different looks - even emulating a Mac OSX desktop in one case ("MacBuntu"?)

I guess one option, other than Mint, would be to install the standard Ubuntu and then download a new desktop like LXDE; and use that. Although there is no point going down that route before seeing what Mint has to offer first.

I just have one little question about Mint: when I download the ISO and write it to a memory stick, will I be able to boot into Live mode first, so I can have a look around and try stuff out, or is the memory stick only used to do a direct install straight to HDD?

I also see on LQ's main page that there is a new distro called "Fuduntu". Looking at its main website, the screenshots indicate that it still uses Gnome 2. Perhaps I'll give that a try too.

And PS: If as Snowpine says, Ubuntu will always use the current Gnome release (at the moment, Gnome 3), is the assertion I saw that said "Gnome already lost its top two desktop distributors in Ubuntu and Mint" completely wrong then? It seems to indicate that Ubuntu and Mint have both ditched Gnome...

People mistake GnomeX with the DE that is default for that version of Gnome. The default DE for Gnome3 is Gnome Shell.

Gnome shell is what that writer was referring to.

Unity is a pluggin for the Compiz window manager which works just fine with Gnome3.

Gnome Shell can indeed be customized by the use of extensions. I have currently removed my Gnome installs but will be getting one in the future.

Got tired of the extensions breaking each time I got a GS upgrade. I am sure this will settle down relatively soon. Those extensions are what, to me, makes GS vastly superior to Unity. Easy way to make major changes to the gui so that it fits your style of working. I think it is a potentially usable DE. Not one that I think I will be using on a production OS but I do know that many people use and like it quite a bit, particularly those that have researched the extensions that are available.

Fedora was the first to release a version with Gnome Shell and many of the extensions were written by Fedora users. Now that more distros have GS as default or in their repos the extensions will be written by more people. Should be able to find a combination to fit just about any need.

I think it is kind of a neat concept. Want to play with the extensions and try my hand at, at least, editing existing ones to fit my work flow better.

Will be sticking with Xfce however.

Neither Ubuntu nor Mint provide a CD image with "vanilla" Gnome Shell as the default desktop environment. However, it is in the repos and can easily be installed.

The distros still supporting Gnome 2 that I know about are: Ubuntu (10.04 only), Debian, Fuduntu, Red Hat, CentOS, Scientific Linux.