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LXer 01-28-2015 11:12 PM

LXer: No, Department of Justice, 80 Percent of Tor Traffic Is Not Child Porn
 
Published at LXer:

The debate over online anonymity, and all the whistleblowers, trolls, anarchists, journalists and political dissidents it enables, is messy enough. It doesn't need the US government making up bogus statistics about how much that anonymity facilitates child pornography.

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metaschima 01-29-2015 11:12 AM

I think if Tor got rid of the darkweb/hidden services altogether its image would improve tremendously. It seems that although only a small percentage of Tor use is the darkweb, that is what politicians and people in general focus on and blow it out of proportion. Get rid of it and Tor may become a more accepted anonymity solution.

LinuxUser42 01-31-2015 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metaschima (Post 5308382)
I think if Tor got rid of the darkweb/hidden services altogether its image would improve tremendously. It seems that although only a small percentage of Tor use is the darkweb, that is what politicians and people in general focus on and blow it out of proportion. Get rid of it and Tor may become a more accepted anonymity solution.

Thank you for the irony. You want to censor a tool that was developed to get around censorship?

273 01-31-2015 09:45 AM

I think that the governments of the US and UK ought to spend even a tenth of the amount of money they spend on wars abroad on proper policing to actually track down child abusers and jail them. I also think they should stop spending all our money on watching everything everyone does on the internet in case we are "terrorists" or "paedophiles" and, instead, spend that on social reform and community building.
Won't happen though as catching real child abusers (as opposed to those who look at images) doesn't allow them to spend millions with their friends at IT companies on spying on everyone.

rokytnji 01-31-2015 09:53 AM

Any body ever standing in front of a govt. clerk. Like to renew your drivers license. Knows no thinking or effort
is going on in the job description.

Govt job by it's very meaning means inept, get nothing done.

So why would anybody be surprised when they get things wrong?

metaschima 01-31-2015 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LinuxUser42 (Post 5309465)
Thank you for the irony. You want to censor a tool that was developed to get around censorship?

I want to alter it so as to make it more likely to be accepted by society. You don't need the darkweb/hidden services to get around censorship. You can still visit other regular sites with Tor and maintain some degree of anonymity (full anonymity being impossible).

LinuxUser42 01-31-2015 11:07 AM

Censorship, is still censorship.
The government uses Tor to connect to its embassies and such (there was an article a few years back, about how they had failed to secure it to an embassy and the leaks that happened). I would expect things like them looking to fund asassinations and such, to be part of the "darkweb". (one option to get rid of terrorists)
This is a tool that isn't used by just one society and societies don't always agree with one another, you can judge another society, but not being a part of that society, then you must commit to war to change that society.

Miati 01-31-2015 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metaschima (Post 5309521)
I want to alter it so as to make it more likely to be accepted by society. You don't need the darkweb/hidden services to get around censorship. You can still visit other regular sites with Tor and maintain some degree of anonymity (full anonymity being impossible).

Say I want to host extremely controversial content located in and is about a repressive government. One that would jail me for communicating messages not politically.. beneficial to the government.

Yeaup...

Let's make it easier for the government to track and squash free speech - just so people can feel better about tor's image.
____

This is something that must be accepted. The same technology that protects criminals, protects people who have a controversial message to say. It also protects peoples privacy - regardless of criminal intent.

273 01-31-2015 11:22 AM

As I aluded to in my previous post I do not think that "child porn" causes the abuse of children and I think it is the "low hanging fruit" that governments can have their police forces spend money on targeting as somebody, somewhere, will have been careless when looking at it or could even have inadvertently looked at it while looking for something else.
Child abuse, however, is much more difficult to stop and our governments show time and time again that they fail in stopping it.

By the way, I would be happy to live in a world where "child porn" did not exist and I find it morally repognant I just do not think that jailing somebody with pictures of naked children or, even, children being abused will stop that abuse happening.

metaschima 01-31-2015 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 273 (Post 5309549)
By the way, I would be happy to live in a world where "child porn" did not exist and I find it morally repognant I just do not think that jailing somebody with pictures of naked children or, even, children being abused will stop that abuse happening.

You are probably right, but let's say a certain percentage of the producers are tracked down after they upload it.

What I'm saying is that by removing the darknet from Tor you will greatly increase its popularity while maintaining its ability to keep you anonymous. As 80% of the darknet is devoted to CP and the rest to drugs and assassinations, I will not miss it, and I don't think most people would. Yeah, you could call it censorship, but I would call it dealing with underground crime as most people would. I would actually say it would be a win for anonymity because Tor would become more popular and acceptable. The darknet is the main reason why I don't use Tor or find its use acceptable except in oppressive regimes.

273 01-31-2015 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metaschima (Post 5309556)
You are probably right, but let's say a certain percentage of the producers are tracked down after they upload it.

What I'm saying is that by removing the darknet from Tor you will greatly increase its popularity while maintaining its ability to keep you anonymous. As 80% of the darknet is devoted to CP and the rest to drugs and assassinations, I will not miss it, and I don't think most people would. Yeah, you could call it censorship, but I would call it dealing with underground crime as most people would. I would actually say it would be a win for anonymity because Tor would become more popular and acceptable. The darknet is the main reason why I don't use Tor or find its use acceptable except in oppressive regimes.

I do tend to agree to a point but remember there is no way to remove child abuse images without checking all content so who would police it? As has been mentioned the "darknet" can also contain things which governments call "terrorism" but most people would call "the truth".
To me ToT (and, indeed, the whole internet) should be like a conversation in an English pub tap room where anything is allowed and nobody but the fellow drinkers are listening.


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