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Old 10-20-2014, 05:50 PM   #1
LXer
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LXer: "Fork Debian" Project Started In Order to Put Pressure on Debian Community and Systemd Adoptio


Published at LXer:

The Debian project decided to adopt systemd a while ago and ditch the upstart counterpart. The decision was very controversial and it's still contested by some users. Now, a new proposition has been made, to fork Debian into something that doesn't have systemd.

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Old 10-20-2014, 06:13 PM   #2
metaschima
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That great news. I always knew Debian users to be more conservative and rational. Maybe others will follow suit and Pottering's hijacking attempt will fail.
 
Old 10-20-2014, 08:43 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
That great news. I always knew Debian users to be more conservative and rational. Maybe others will follow suit and Pottering's hijacking attempt will fail.
Hmmmm..... yet another ill considered comment by a Slacker. The thing with this group, and Ian Jackson, is they want Debian suers to be able to use whatever init system they choose. There is nothing about stopping Slackware from being incorporated into Debian and letting Debian users adopt systemd of their own accord (which seems to be the gist of the militant anti-systemd crowds push). Let the user decide is what this is about, it is not about Slackers telling everyone what is or isn't good for them and it most certainly isn't about using emotive language to make everyone think something is akin to the apocalypse.
 
Old 10-20-2014, 09:00 PM   #4
metaschima
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I'm not sure where you got the idea of Slackware being incorporated into Debian from. I've never heard of it until you said it.

This is definitely about preserving choice and sanity and not giving in to hijackers and terrorists.
 
Old 10-20-2014, 09:50 PM   #5
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
I'm not sure where you got the idea of Slackware being incorporated into Debian from. I've never heard of it until you said it.
I admit it was poorly worded and actually back to front. The intent was to say what goes on in Slackware has nothing to do with Debian and nothing Slackware users say and or do should influence Debian. Slackware will not take over Debian and Slackware users will have no effect on Debian users. This the incorporation idea (which was back to front anyway). If you don't want to use systemd that's fine stick with your beloved Slackware and let Debian users worry about Debian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
This is definitely about preserving choice and sanity and not giving in to hijackers and terrorists.
It would really help your cause if the more vocal among you would start conversing "normally" instead of calling people hijackers and terrorist.
 
Old 10-21-2014, 11:30 AM   #6
metaschima
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I don't see how you can just know all that. I think that users from different distros constantly influence one another, and I don't see any reason why this is bad or why it is not happening, as you seem to think. I have a feeling you are speaking for yourself in the words of others or something like that. What you mean is that you are Debian user and you don't want to listen to me or be influence by me and are telling me to shut up and go away. Put it more clearly and directly next time, that way we avoid unnecessary confusion.

I call people what they are, at least according to me.
 
Old 10-21-2014, 10:37 PM   #7
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
I don't see how you can just know all that.
You don't see much but what I see is a core group of SLackers who have to comment on every single topic about systemd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
I think that users from different distros constantly influence one another, and I don't see any reason why this is bad or why it is not happening, as you seem to think.
I didn't say influence was bad, you are reading things into comment that just aren't there.

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Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
I have a feeling you are speaking for yourself
Of course I am speaking for myself.
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Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
in the words of others or something like that.
Now read that to yourself and tell me how much sense it makes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
What you mean is that you are Debian user and you don't want to listen to me or be influence by me and are telling me to shut up and go away.
No what I mean is you are getting involved in every thread about systemd that you can and have emotionalised the issue so much that you really aren't worth listening to. If you and a few others would start actually talking on technical merits instead of emotional outbursts then you may be worth listening to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
Put it more clearly and directly next time
If I put is as clearly and directly as I want to I'd be banned from LQ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
that way we avoid unnecessary confusion.
I admitted the my first post was poorly worded, I clarified it in my last post. If you are confused about things you should take a step back and actually read things instead of interpreting things in some doom and gloom way. Even the otehr topic you use the word usurp without knowing what it means, either that or you do know what it means and you use it to throw a technical discussion into an emotional maelstrom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
I call people what they are, at least according to me.
Whether you are right or wrong! This indicates that you don't put much thought into technical discussions and you have to lower the discussion to a purely emotional level so you can take part. Terrorists are taking over Eastern Ukraine, Eastern Syria and Western Iraq, kidnapped girls from schools in Africa, shoot girls like Malala Yousafzai in the head for daring to say girls have a right to go to school. Calling people, who don't strictly adhere to your image of what Linux should be like, terrorists belittles the sacrifice made by the people who have fought and spoken out against real terrorists.

Terrorism is
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://web.archive.org/web/20070427012107/http://www.un.org/unifeed/script.asp?scriptId=73
intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population or compelling a government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act"
if systemd or Potering (sp?) causes you to feel such terror that you fear for your life or think you will suffer bodily harm then the problem isn't systemd or Potering (sp?) but rather your extremely heighten sense of personal danger.

You have your opinion, I have mine, and other people have theirs. I'd be more inclined to be interested in your opinion on technical matters if you actually used a valid technical discussion to back up your opinions. I look forward to the day this will happen

Last edited by k3lt01; 10-21-2014 at 10:46 PM.
 
Old 10-22-2014, 02:00 AM   #8
kony
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Terrorists are taking over Eastern Ukraine, Eastern Syria and Western Iraq, kidnapped girls from schools in Africa, shoot girls like Malala Yousafzai in the head for daring to say girls have a right to go to school. Calling people, who don't strictly adhere to your image of what Linux should be like, terrorists belittles the sacrifice made by the people who have fought and spoken out against real terrorists.

Terrorism is
if systemd or Potering (sp?) causes you to feel such terror that you fear for your life or think you will suffer bodily harm then the problem isn't systemd or Potering (sp?) but rather your extremely heighten sense of personal danger.

You have your opinion, I have mine, and other people have theirs. I'd be more inclined to be interested in your opinion on technical matters if you actually used a valid technical discussion to back up your opinions. I look forward to the day this will happen
That's a good one.

You just made the same thing the other person you are arguing with - labelled random people as terrorists and even assumed their objective is killing civillians. Can you tell me about the sources of such murders in Ukraine? Sure, they shot down one civillian airplane, which was tragic, but it was an accident (even if caused by a moron who can't read a radar), other than that the killings of civillians were fairly low (also when counting in percentages and in comparison to other modern conflicts, like Americans in Asia or Americans and Russians in the Middle East, unless you're saying we should label both countries governments as 'terrorists', but what for anyway?). I know it's unrelated to linux, but I want to stress here that talking about one topic doesn't give you any right to lie about the other.

That said, I don't even know what systemd is for, whether I have it as a part of my OS and what are alternatives, I'm not an IT specialist and I have no ambition to ever become one, therefore all this stuff, although pretty relevant to me because I use linux, is beyond me so I don't take any sides. I'd like to tell you both that your discussion is totally devoid of any meaningful argumentation and conclusions though. You can do better than that, just don't mash keyboard the moment you read something annoying on the internet, think 10 seconds before doing so, it will give you some time to calm down.

Last edited by kony; 10-22-2014 at 02:01 AM.
 
Old 10-22-2014, 03:02 AM   #9
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
That's a good one.
I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
You just made the same thing the other person you are arguing with - labelled random people as terrorists and even assumed their objective is killing civillians. Can you tell me about the sources of such murders in Ukraine? Sure, they shot down one civillian airplane, which was tragic, but it was an accident (even if caused by a moron who can't read a radar), other than that the killings of civillians were fairly low (also when counting in percentages and in comparison to other modern conflicts, like Americans in Asia or Americans and Russians in the Middle East, unless you're saying we should label both countries governments as 'terrorists', but what for anyway?). I know it's unrelated to linux, but I want to stress here that talking about one topic doesn't give you any right to lie about the other.
5 things.

1. I never labelled "random people" as anything, I have not named one single person in a negative fashion with regards to Ukraine or any other combat situation.
2. No lie. You may not believe it but that doesn't make it a lie. I know your Polish and I'm not in Eastern Europe so you may (notice I did not say will) use proximity to the situation to suggest you know more than everyone else.
3. Regarding murder in Ukraine why don't you do some research (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28901386) and look for the murder of the Lithuanian Consul by Pro Russian Separatists. There are others but I'm not going to argue with you over Ukraine about who is right or wrong but lets be clear innocent civilians (you neglected to use the phrase "non-combatants") have died.
4. Russia has accused Ukraine of mass killings and burials and the west has accused Russia and the separatists of summary killings. What a great way to create terror in the population. Do some research on both sides and also check out Amnesty International's reports.
5. The use of the word terrorist with regards to systemd ignores real terror and its effect on people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
That said, I don't even know what systemd is for, whether I have it as a part of my OS and what are alternatives, I'm not an IT specialist and I have no ambition to ever become one, therefore all this stuff, although pretty relevant to me because I use linux, is beyond me so I don't take any sides.
Maybe do some research and see what you think based on clear and solid technical information not FUD. I must say I'm not Pro systemd, I think it takes on to much, but I am anti FUD with regards to systemd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kony View Post
I'd like to tell you both that your discussion is totally devoid of any meaningful argumentation and conclusions though. You can do better than that, just don't mash keyboard the moment you read something annoying on the internet, think 10 seconds before doing so, it will give you some time to calm down.
Pot meet kettle. You have just done the exact same thing.
 
  


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