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Old 06-10-2009, 04:52 PM   #16
Aizenmyou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
Well, anyone can add anything to an image, including "Hardy and Laurel". (The official site has http://www.slackware.org/grfx/shared...bsite_logo.png ftr)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
Why not Hardy and Laurel? Why these constant personal attacks on Stallman? We've had threads like this before.
"Why not Hardy and Laurel?"
Not to offend, but Answering a question with a question is avoidance.

This is my final post to this topic to avoid being baited.
 
Old 06-11-2009, 03:21 PM   #17
H_TeXMeX_H
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Well personally I have nothing against RMS, in fact I enjoy listening to his speeches, mostly so I can laugh as he inevitable bash the **** out of M$. But, many of his ideas are extremist views, even more so than my views. And, of course, people are going to get into heated arguments over this stuff. I also try hard not to make personal attacks, we're attacking ideas not people ... lets keep it that way.
 
Old 06-20-2009, 03:03 AM   #18
DudeManAwesome
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Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Well personally I have nothing against RMS, in fact I enjoy listening to his speeches, mostly so I can laugh as he inevitable bash the **** out of M$. But, many of his ideas are extremist views, even more so than my views. And, of course, people are going to get into heated arguments over this stuff. I also try hard not to make personal attacks, we're attacking ideas not people ... lets keep it that way.
Extremist? Really. What are you a republican? Richard Stallman's view is that anyone should be free to the fullest extent to use, modify, and distribute the software. That's all, the basic freedoms don't make him an extremist.

Linus on the other hand, he's view is to stay away from the politics, and the freedom doesn't matter as long as the software works, use what works, that's why we have binary blobs in the current Linux Kernel, that's why I can't fix any part of that code in my copy of the Linux Kernel.
 
Old 06-20-2009, 03:06 AM   #19
DudeManAwesome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
I'm sure if this guy and RMS ever met, RMS would give him a big bear hug. Other than that, nothing to see here.

Personally I think the Linux kernel is perhaps the greatest feat of software engineering the world has ever known and maybe will ever know. Sure, we should call it GNU/Linux, but just Linux is fine with me. Without Linux, GNU may have ceased to exist or its development been severely hampered. Without the Linux kernel, GNU would not be what it is today.
Why? Because Linux is a basic working Monolithic kernel?
 
Old 06-20-2009, 03:08 AM   #20
DudeManAwesome
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Originally Posted by Aizenmyou View Post
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux
Technically only if you are a part of the FSF.
"The GNU contribution is the basis for the Free Software Foundation's preferred name GNU/Linux."

When GNU decides to compile their own distro, they may name it as they see fit. I use Slackware Linux not Slackware GNU/Linux.

You're correct that it's a silly argument. I'm just tired of Richard Stallman trying to force feed people his ideals.

Just as a side note, why not Linux/GNU?
I'm pretty sure with some extreme code hacking you could get Linux to run with more BSD tools than GNU, thus making the Linux portion more important and therefore should prefix that naming convention.

As for uname -o, you can easily change to that to what ever you want. (i.e. Mine does not show the GNU/ prefix to my Linux OS.)
"When I do this, some people think that it's because I want my ego to be fed, right? Of course, I'm not asking you to call it `Stallmanix`!" -Richard Stallman, as an answer given in a question-and-answer session after Free software: Freedom and cooperation.

But Linus has made you call it Linux, i.e. Linus+Unix.
 
Old 06-20-2009, 03:15 AM   #21
DudeManAwesome
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Originally Posted by Aizenmyou View Post
Just for anyone curious to know how to change the propaganda code.
If you download the coreutils from the GNU site and open the m4/host-os.m4 macro file, you will see:
os='GNU/Linux';;

Just change what's between the single quotes to whatever you wish, and recompile + install.

About Stallman being an extremist, he's more of a hypocrite.
He blabs about all software being "free", but what he really means is; all software should be free the way he sees fit.
(Truly free software wouldn't come with any license restrictions.)

I don't take him seriously, nor should anyone else; I'm not a politician.
Let's just hope he doesn't read this forum.
You need to learn the definition of the word "hypocrite."

Richard Stallman wants software to be free, that's why -- contrary to what you said about license restrictions -- the GPL ensures inalienable rights to your freedom to use, copy, modify, and distribute the software. When a lot of OSI licenses restrict some of your freedoms.

Linus is more of an hypocrite, he licenses Linux under the GPL, but won't go to GPL version 3.
 
Old 06-20-2009, 04:53 AM   #22
H_TeXMeX_H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeManAwesome View Post
Extremist? Really. What are you a republican? Richard Stallman's view is that anyone should be free to the fullest extent to use, modify, and distribute the software. That's all, the basic freedoms don't make him an extremist.

Linus on the other hand, he's view is to stay away from the politics, and the freedom doesn't matter as long as the software works, use what works, that's why we have binary blobs in the current Linux Kernel, that's why I can't fix any part of that code in my copy of the Linux Kernel.
That's not the part that makes him an extremist, it's his political views that him an extremist. I agree with everything that RMS says with respect to FLOSS, but not with everything he says about other things, which he tends to infuse into his speeches.

And no, I'm not a "republican" ... not even such such a thing exists. If you were to ask me my political affiliation I would say either "none" or "anarchist". Also, I never said there was anything wrong with being an extremist.

Oh, and in conflicts between Linus and RMS, Linus is usually right. As for the GPL3, I much prefer the GPL2, mostly because of the grandfather clause in the GPL3 ... that one was highly disputed and nobody did anything about it, they just left it in there. Until they take it out, I'm against the GPL3.

Last edited by H_TeXMeX_H; 06-20-2009 at 04:57 AM.
 
Old 06-20-2009, 06:38 PM   #23
DragonSlayer48DX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeManAwesome View Post
Linus on the other hand, he's view is to stay away from the politics, and the freedom doesn't matter as long as the software works, use what works, that's why we have binary blobs in the current Linux Kernel, that's why I can't fix any part of that code in my copy of the Linux Kernel.
Then perhaps you should try using GNUs Mach OS with the Hurd kernel.

There's a reason why the GNU Project was scarcely heard of before Linux, even after seven years of developing software and preaching politics. Furthermore, Sir Linus Torvalds wanted to name his OS "Freax".

Last edited by DragonSlayer48DX; 06-20-2009 at 06:53 PM.
 
Old 06-20-2009, 10:36 PM   #24
DudeManAwesome
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Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
That's not the part that makes him an extremist, it's his political views that him an extremist. I agree with everything that RMS says with respect to FLOSS, but not with everything he says about other things, which he tends to infuse into his speeches.
Quotation please. I find myself agreeing with Richard Stallman on all of he political views, both FOSS, and "real-world," but I don't recall any time when he "infuse[ed]" some unrelated political view of his in to a speech, they are always as examples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
And no, I'm not a "republican" ... not even such such a thing exists. If you were to ask me my political affiliation I would say either "none" or "anarchist". Also, I never said there was anything wrong with being an extremist.
Anarchy, eh? Isn't that a little extremist of you? And, no, "republicans" exist, you can't just say they don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Oh, and in conflicts between Linus and RMS, Linus is usually right. As for the GPL3, I much prefer the GPL2, mostly because of the grandfather clause in the GPL3 ... that one was highly disputed and nobody did anything about it, they just left it in there. Until they take it out, I'm against the GPL3.
Grandfather clause? Again, point me to where in the GPL version 3 something like this is implemented. Also I think a grandfather clause is necessary to ensure the freedom of the software users.
 
Old 06-20-2009, 10:59 PM   #25
DudeManAwesome
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Originally Posted by dragonslayer48dx View Post
Then perhaps you should try using GNUs Mach OS with the Hurd kernel.
Actually, that's "GNU's Mach microkernel with the Hurd kernel."
Both GNU Mach and GNU Hurd are Kernels, like Linux is a Kernel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonslayer48dx View Post
There's a reason why the GNU Project was scarcely heard of before Linux, even after seven years of developing software and preaching politics.
Yeah, and the reason is that the GNU Project was brand new at the time, just like the Linux Kernel was. GNU/Linux popularized when the operating system could be used, when the GNU operating system could be used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonslayer48dx View Post
Furthermore, Sir Linus Torvalds wanted to name his OS "Freax".
Yeah, but it ended up being called "Linux" because Linus wasn't good enough at organizing, documenting, and speaking about his Kernel, or his "operating system" as he calls it.

He could/should have asked for it to be incorporated in to the GNU Project. GNU would have considered it. http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#linuxgnu
 
Old 06-20-2009, 11:53 PM   #26
DragonSlayer48DX
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Originally Posted by DudeManAwesome View Post
Actually, that's "GNU's Mach microkernel with the Hurd kernel."
Both GNU Mach and GNU Hurd are Kernels, like Linux is a Kernel.
My mistake. But that just means they'd already failed twice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeManAwesome View Post
Yeah, and the reason is that the GNU Project was brand new at the time, just like the Linux Kernel was. GNU/Linux popularized when the operating system could be used, when the GNU operating system could be used.
Keep your facts straight- The GNU Project was not brand new in 1992, it was founded in 1983. Their 'system' was popularized in 1992 when it was made useful with Linux.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Project

If Linus hadn't written Linux, we'd still be stuck with Windows, Mac, or Unix, and GNU will still be unheard of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeManAwesome View Post
Yeah, but it ended up being called "Linux" because Linus wasn't good enough at organizing, documenting, and speaking about his Kernel, or his "operating system" as he calls it.
And that's just an unfounded opinion, unless you can show proof otherwise.
 
Old 06-21-2009, 04:05 AM   #27
H_TeXMeX_H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeManAwesome View Post
Quotation please. I find myself agreeing with Richard Stallman on all of he political views, both FOSS, and "real-world," but I don't recall any time when he "infuse[ed]" some unrelated political view of his in to a speech, they are always as examples.

Anarchy, eh? Isn't that a little extremist of you? And, no, "republicans" exist, you can't just say they don't.

Grandfather clause? Again, point me to where in the GPL version 3 something like this is implemented. Also I think a grandfather clause is necessary to ensure the freedom of the software users.
First see section 11 on Patents:
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html

Quote:
A patent license is “discriminatory” if it does not include within the scope of its coverage, prohibits the exercise of, or is conditioned on the non-exercise of one or more of the rights that are specifically granted under this License. You may not convey a covered work if you are a party to an arrangement with a third party that is in the business of distributing software, under which you make payment to the third party based on the extent of your activity of conveying the work, and under which the third party grants, to any of the parties who would receive the covered work from you, a discriminatory patent license (a) in connection with copies of the covered work conveyed by you (or copies made from those copies), or (b) primarily for and in connection with specific products or compilations that contain the covered work, unless you entered into that arrangement, or that patent license was granted, prior to 28 March 2007.
That is the grandfather clause ... it was highly disputed when the GPLv3 was in preliminary stages of being completed. That is a ridiculous clause, just waiting for some lawyer to find a way around.

As for Stallman, see here for an example:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...light=Stallman

As for anarchy, read my sig. In reality, the current system is extremist, in fact, in comparison, anarchy looks quite moderate.
 
Old 06-21-2009, 05:00 AM   #28
brianL
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Originally Posted by dragonslayer48dx View Post
If Linus hadn't written Linux, we'd still be stuck with Windows
...and using Cygwin, or MSYS/MinGW, or GnuWin32, or DJGPP.
 
Old 06-22-2009, 04:16 AM   #29
DudeManAwesome
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Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
First see section 11 on Patents:
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html

That is the grandfather clause ... it was highly disputed when the GPLv3 was in preliminary stages of being completed. That is a ridiculous clause, just waiting for some lawyer to find a way around.
I see this being appropriate. Lawyers are always going to find a way around the GPL, the only thing that stops this is new versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
As for Stallman, see here for an example:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...light=Stallman
I also see this as appropriate. If I am reading it right, he is saying authors of books with copyright on the works, holds the copyright so long, even renewing it, that when the author dies the copyright is still registered, and is handed over to the author's wife, children, or grandchildren eventually, when the work should have expired and been set to be released into the public domain, as normally happens 50-100 years after the authors death. When instead the he author's wife, children, or grandchildren continue to benefit from the authors work, when they didn't write the book, and don't deserve the money.

Am I wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
As for anarchy, read my sig. In reality, the current system is extremist, in fact, in comparison, anarchy looks quite moderate.
I don't see your "sig." anywhere, maybe it's AdBlock, can you please quote it for me?
 
Old 06-22-2009, 06:21 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeManAwesome View Post
I also see this as appropriate. If I am reading it right, he is saying authors of books with copyright on the works, holds the copyright so long, even renewing it, that when the author dies the copyright is still registered, and is handed over to the author's wife, children, or grandchildren eventually, when the work should have expired and been set to be released into the public domain, as normally happens 50-100 years after the authors death. When instead the he author's wife, children, or grandchildren continue to benefit from the authors work, when they didn't write the book, and don't deserve the money.

Am I wrong?

I don't see your "sig." anywhere, maybe it's AdBlock, can you please quote it for me?
Yeah, I think that's what he's saying, and it's stupid to say this, IMO. So what if the relatives didn't write the book, they are his family and he would want to give them the money earned from his book. Does RMS want everyone to start from zero every time without any inheritance of any kind ? How incredibly hellish that would be, you could never progress in any way, it would be like a caste system almost ... and likely absolute domination / totalitarianism because of the lack of distribution of power. It's an incredibly dumb idea, IMO, and hopefully he didn't really mean it. I mean imagine if your parents couldn't give you any money (or very little) because of these types of laws being implemented, you'd have to work your @$$ off and in the end you wouldn't be able to leave your children any inheritance either ... a caste system basically, everyone would be maintain at the same level of poverty ... pure hell on earth.

My sig:

Anarchy - a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.

~ Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

Last edited by H_TeXMeX_H; 06-22-2009 at 06:23 AM.
 
  


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