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Old 08-08-2005, 04:12 AM   #1
paulmedic555
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Unhappy slcakware installation issues


Hi all i have some questions about slackware.Now i am using suse 9.3 but i am disappointment with it because of rpm's and that it is a little "heavy" for my old system (Celeron 2GHz 256 MB RAM DDR and 40GB hdd).So i am thinking to install slackware in it (with win i have only for photoshop i have to use ).My questions are:
1)I want to use gnome but slackware 10.1 has gnome 2.6.2 so i downloaded the dropline iso and i want to use it so i ask if i do a full install with gnome 2.6.2 then can i install dropline and upgrade that to 2.10.2?Or manually upgrade gnome from linuxpackages
2)Major thing i want is that i have an adsl connection with a sagem usb modem which i successfully configure it and use it in suse with eagle-usb driver and i want absolutely to work it because my ethernet router doesn't work any more.So is there a hope to work it under slackware?
 
Old 08-09-2005, 01:00 PM   #2
synaptical
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1) subjectively, to me gnome is the slowest desktop, ime (no flames pls. i said subjectively ). if your system seems sluggish, why not first try a different window manager, see if that improves things. it will at least save you a reinstall. you could also make sure you aren't running a bunch of services you don't need and have your OS as optimized as possible. if nothing else, you might learn a lot from the process.

but if you really want to try slackware, definitely go for it. as for gnome, if i knew i was going to use dropline, i would probably not even install the slackware gnome. why create extra potential problems? just leave it off altogether and install fresh dropline. just be aware that once dropline is on there, you are pretty much stuck with it. at least that's the way it used to be, as it changed some system files, etc. and it was difficult to remove without screwing up your system royally. but maybe that's improved by now, i haven't really been following their development lately.

fwiw, i run mostly xfce4 and fluxbox, but i use a lot of the gnome apps b/c i like the gnome gui/interface. so it's like the best of both worlds b/c the desktop feels very light, and yet you can load up gnome apps if you want, gftp, gedit, gthumb, etc. so i just throw that out there as another option to consider.

2) if it works on suse, i'd say there's a better than 99.9% chance it will work on slackware.

gl
 
Old 08-10-2005, 03:22 AM   #3
Nille_kungen
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I would recommend u give xfce4 a try.
And i would like to warn u about Dropline gnome because it alter to much on your system.
If u absolutly want to use gnome the please use one of theese instead.
http://gsb.freerock.org/
http://gware.sourceforge.net/
Because i think it's far better then dropline and may save u some strange troubleshooting in the future.
 
Old 08-10-2005, 03:40 AM   #4
SlackerLX
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Totally agree with guys. Fluxbox is a great DE. Besides, the specs of your box are not bad, In fact 2Ghz CPU is fast one. Perhaps memory needs an addendum of another 256M and that's it
 
Old 08-10-2005, 09:14 AM   #5
zborgerd
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nille_kungen
I would recommend u give xfce4 a try.
And i would like to warn u about Dropline gnome because it alter to much on your system.
If u absolutly want to use gnome the please use one of theese instead.
http://gsb.freerock.org/
http://gware.sourceforge.net/
Because i think it's far better then dropline and may save u some strange troubleshooting in the future.
Maybe you could expand upon this and offer specifics. I happen to know that Dropline only replaces a handful of extra files, vs. the other third-party GNOME desktops (because I've compiled a list), and virtually all of them are multimedia-related for a proper GStreamer backend.

And, please. The PAM argument is tired as it doesn't specifically modify any existing system files, and we're the only desktop that has an X11 build that is patched to be completely compatible with GNOME (look to the fonts:// bug for specifics) and supports multi-input Logitech mouse devices..

So, please. Elaborate. It's the least that you can do.

Last edited by zborgerd; 08-10-2005 at 09:19 AM.
 
Old 08-10-2005, 09:46 AM   #6
ertz
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i'd just like to post this link to backup zborgerd and our project.
 
Old 08-15-2005, 02:52 PM   #7
Eternal_Newbie
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Well, that uninformative, snooty Dropline Wiki entry just made sure I will _never_ use Dropline Gnome :/
 
Old 08-15-2005, 09:48 PM   #8
zborgerd
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eternal_Newbie
Well, that uninformative, snooty Dropline Wiki entry just made sure I will _never_ use Dropline Gnome :/
Great! If it bothers you that much, I'm sure you're doing us a favor.

But, anyway. They're not called "Frequently Unasked Questions" for nothing. They're, if you will, form letters for responses to elitists and trolls.

Last edited by zborgerd; 08-15-2005 at 09:52 PM.
 
Old 08-16-2005, 06:56 AM   #9
Eternal_Newbie
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As far as I can see the only elitists are the ones who wrote that particular Wiki entry. It's generally not a good idea to be condenscending towards potential users. You might find it amusing, I consider it childish.

It's also plain stupid to point someone there if they just want to know about Dropline. The rest of the Wiki is actually quite informative and interesting, but if _that_ page is their their first taste of Dropline it is likely to put them off for life.

PS: But this is not helping PaulMedic555, I would recommend that you try xfce4. It's not as fast as blackbox, it is sort of a halfway-house to the big desktops, Gnome and KDE. All the taste with half the fat

Last edited by Eternal_Newbie; 08-16-2005 at 07:29 AM.
 
Old 08-16-2005, 07:51 AM   #10
zborgerd
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eternal_Newbie
As far as I can see the only elitists are the ones who wrote that particular Wiki entry. It's generally not a good idea to be condenscending towards potential users. You might find it amusing, I consider it childish.

It's also plain stupid to point someone there if they just want to know about Dropline. The rest of the Wiki is actually quite informative and interesting, but if _that_ page is their their first taste of Dropline it is likely to put them off for life.
Perhaps you think that the goal of our project is to win over your favor and gain you as a user. Of course, you'd be wrong. Frankly, none of us really care. We don't do this for money. We don't ask for anything from anyone (you may notice that there is no donation page on droplinegnome.org), and we certainly don't have obligations towards people like you.

We share Dropline GNOME with the rest of the world because we're proud of our work and we think that others might enjoy it as well, but really - we build it because we want a properly working GNOME desktop for our own use. We shouldn't have to justify our position for making things work properly for us. If people want to use it, then great! If not, we really don't care. On the other hand, it gets a bit irritating to see posts with unstubstantiated libel from folks that can't even take the time to properly explain why "Dropline Breaks Things". I'm here to simply say that is does not "break things" any more than any other third party Slackware GNOME desktop does.

You seem to have missed the point of the "Frequently Unasked Questions". The point is that we're tired of hearing the ridiculous rants about PAM and our X11 by folks who have NO IDEA how PAM works, and have NO IDEA how broken (with GNOME) Slackware's default X11 packages are. If you take offense, then there is nothing that we can do to help you. You are solely in control of your own emotion.

Last edited by zborgerd; 08-16-2005 at 08:21 AM.
 
Old 08-16-2005, 10:09 AM   #11
tuxdev
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No, Slackware's packages are not broken. It is proper vanilla, which you need to learn how to support. You replacing the Xserver is fundamentally wrong according to modulation of components. Even your Xserver is wrong by doing way to much for an Xserver.

Also, other Slackware builds try to be as nice as possible with Slackware. Some things can not be avoided right now, but they are working on it. You aren't.

The statement "Dropline breaks things" is not libel, since it is usually advice to stay away from Dropline by users who have issues with the funny stuff you do to a system. They do not have to explain every single time, only when they are asked to. If you do ask, you will most of the time hear the exact component in Dropline that caused the break.
 
Old 08-16-2005, 11:59 AM   #12
zborgerd
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Quote:
Originally posted by tuxdev
No, Slackware's packages are not broken. It is proper vanilla, which you need to learn how to support. You replacing the Xserver is fundamentally wrong according to modulation of components. Even your Xserver is wrong by doing way to much for an Xserver.

Also, other Slackware builds try to be as nice as possible with Slackware. Some things can not be avoided right now, but they are working on it. You aren't.

The statement "Dropline breaks things" is not libel, since it is usually advice to stay away from Dropline by users who have issues with the funny stuff you do to a system. They do not have to explain every single time, only when they are asked to. If you do ask, you will most of the time hear the exact component in Dropline that caused the break.
Installing a third party GNOME desktop on any Slackware system will take you away from a "proper vanilla" system no matter what. Any time you introduce *anything* to a Slackware system, you no longer have a vanilla system. I can, however, attest to the fact that Dropline GNOME is the only GNOME desktop that works with 100% of the GNOME features that will be broken on other desktops, purely because we happen to provide a patched X11 system and other things. Like it or not, this is just the way that works. People fail to realize that GNOME relies so heavily upon all of the existing system libraries... It would be foolish to think that X11 is not one of those, particularly when there are verified X11 bugs that break GNOME features. Complain all you like, but we have to face the fact that Slackware is not GNOME-oriented, and things will only get worse as Pat puts absolutely no focus onto GNOME-related issues. E.g., I can already verify that GDM 2.8 breaks on Slackware without some sort of workaround when entering runlevel four. What happens when Pat pulls the GDM scripting out of it in the future? Do you modify rc.4 and become "intrusive", or do you tell people that they simply cannot start their systems into GDM in runlevel four. Yeah. That's really user-friendly.

Some things cannot be understood unless you actually work on the software. GNOME is excessively convoluted, and has all sorts of little usability and functionality quirks that must be handled at a lower level. I can't help but to chuckle a bit as the other third-party GNOME desktops begin to do some of the things that Dropline was once criticized for. I guess only PAM and X11 are left.

Slackware is not a GNOME distribution, and hasn't been for years. Anyone that doesn't understand the compromise that must be made, simply doesn't understand what is involved in making it all work. All of the other GNOME-centric distributions make use of the same patches and libraries (like PAM/HAL/DBUS) that we use. Slackware is the exception, and those that don't understand that will allow Slackware to rust away as GNOME evolves. GNOME and its underlying technologies are the future of the UNIX desktop, and making Slackware work like a modern distribution takes a bit more than simply slapping a few GNOME packs on top of it.
 
Old 08-16-2005, 12:28 PM   #13
tuxdev
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The problem is that you are breaking the intended OS paradigm. Dropline will not work in a unhacked LFS system for the exact same reasons. I am not saying the other Gnomes are not breaking the rules, they just are not as blantant about it and they also try not to do things that are counter-paradigm. Dropline is simply not a well built piece of software cause it breaks all of the rules that are in place to prevent a particular piece of software from taking over the system. Such activity is one of the worst qualities of Windows.
 
Old 08-16-2005, 12:34 PM   #14
zborgerd
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Quote:
Originally posted by tuxdev
The problem is that you are breaking the intended OS paradigm. Dropline will not work in a unhacked LFS system for the exact same reasons. I am not saying the other Gnomes are not breaking the rules, they just are not as blantant about it and they also try not to do things that are counter-paradigm. Dropline is simply not a well built piece of software cause it breaks all of the rules that are in place to prevent a particular piece of software from taking over the system. Such activity is one of the worst qualities of Windows.
That was extremely insightful. Once again, we have someone that can make claims yet not site any specifics. Bravo! What are these "rules" that you refer to, since we obviously don't understand them well enough to stay within the guidelines?

If making something work breaks an "OS paradigm", then we might as well fork Slackware. Wouldn't be a bad idea, I suppose. We would certainly have fewer "experts" to listen to on the subject.

Last edited by zborgerd; 08-16-2005 at 12:44 PM.
 
Old 08-16-2005, 12:47 PM   #15
tuxdev
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You didn't ask for any have you? I have already explained what I said cause that last post was just trying to reword my post before that. You obviously did not read my entire post. If you think Slackware is so fundamentally bad, why do you use it?
 
  


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