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Old 04-23-2018, 02:12 AM   #16
Penthux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLagoa View Post
Okay, Penthux.
So there are no packages of Chromium or Firefox browsers and there is also no LibreOficce prepared to run under the Slackware version ARM 14.2 stable?
I noticed that we have Caligra and Konqueror running on the KDE interface when we install this environment on the ARM platform, but I do not want to install KDE because I consider it a heavy environment (I've always used XFCE in Slackware and I really like that fully customizable interface).
When it comes to Slackware ARM desktop environment I'm a novice and certainly not the best person to ask advice. I hardly ever use the desktop on the Raspberry Pi devices and only for testing purposes when I do. Although I generally install Xfce as a personal preference on the Orange Pi and Hummingboards, and I agree with you about KDE being resource-hungry on ARM devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MLagoa View Post
The hope is that the current version stabilizes soon and so we have a stable and functional system, just as it is version 14.2 for PC Desktop.
Thanks for listening!
muito obrigado

Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
Raspbian is the official distribution that is constantly optimized to run very well on the Raspberry Pi boards, no other distribution will put that much effort in the optimization, but only in the support of the Raspberry Pi boards.
I'd like to believe not many people share your effusive passion for Raspbian on this Slackware ARM forum.

I've used Raspbian for testing hardware and comparing against Slackware ARM. It's not in-line with my idea of how a Linux system should be run. At the end of the day it comes down to what suits you. If you want it easy and mostly pointy-clicky, it doesn't get much more facilitating and convenient than Raspbian, with its systemd "Windows 9 Linux" bulls**t. Most Linux users just want it easy these days. So, whatever is easiest is usually the preference.

Slackware [ARM] at least sticks to Linux traditions. Whereas Raspbian does not. So, if you want to learn Linux the right and proper way it's basically a 'no-brainer'. If you don't care then it really doesn't matter.
 
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Old 04-23-2018, 05:31 PM   #17
abga
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@MLagoa

In the previous post, our fellow Slacker Penthux has misinterpreted my direct answer to you and brought it to some totally unrelated dimensions and extremes. Quite typical, but once you get used with that, he's a very useful and nice person and most importantly, a Slacker.
This misinterpretation requires now some clarification effort on my side and it makes me again wonder what people do when they don't have anything (better) to do.

Your statement was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLagoa View Post
So I will provisionally use "Raspbian Lite" and hope that a mature version of Slackware or ArchLinux is ready to run on Raspberry.
Thank you very much for your attention. And sorry for my "English" because it is not my native language.
And my reply:
Quote:
Raspbian is the official distribution that is constantly optimized to run very well on the Raspberry Pi boards, no other distribution will put that much effort in the optimization, but only in the support of the Raspberry Pi boards.
was strictly related to your desktop usage preference on the Raspberry Pi, mentioned in your original post, and was only explaining, mainly preparing yourself to not feel disappointed, that no other distribution other than Raspbian will perform that well / fast, because no other distribution I'm aware of has the capacity to put that much effort in optimizing the desktop interface (might be some additional system tweaks too) for the Raspberry Pi platform. The lightweight XFCE desktop environment that is provided by Slackware ARM, and other Linux distributions, is not as fast and lightweight as the modified and purposely optimized LXDE&Openbox that is coming with Raspbian. Some time ago I was also curious about your setup and did some tests focusing on the desktop usage between Slackware ARM-XFCE and Raspbian-LXDE&Openbox and learned that the latter was performing way better/faster.
In my reply to you I've also referenced another recent thread where I'm mentioning this in more detail, together with some other useful observations:
https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...8/#post5843545
Slackware ARM -current, the only armv7 HardFloat available ATM, is usable and stable if you don't update it, except for urgent security related fixes and I encourage you to use it, even if it's in a development stage. It's mature enough for me. However, as mentioned before, I doubt that LibreOffice will be ever officially included as a standard package in Slackware.

Last edited by abga; 04-23-2018 at 05:33 PM. Reason: typo
 
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:05 PM   #18
mralk3
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SlackwareARM +XFCE= No Web Browser, no LibreOffice?

Why not use emacs or vim that come with Slackware? I almost exclusively use vim for all my word processing needs. Emacs has the ability to handle spreadsheets.

In my own experiences I've concluded that GUI Web browsers on the Pi, even in Raspbian, are not very functional. You should try text based browsers like links (comes with Slackware), w3m, and elinks.

Try searching for alternatives to Libreoffice and any other heavyweight software and I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised how much snappier Slackwarearm can run on any of the SBCs. I am not saying NOT to use Xfce, but to be more realistic with your systems resources.
 
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Old 04-24-2018, 02:38 AM   #19
drmozes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
Slackware ARM -current, the only armv7 HardFloat available ATM, is usable and stable if you don't update it, except for urgent security related fixes
It's usable and stable when I update it, when you use upgradepkg/installpkg as suggested.

I respectfully ask that in your future messages please write it as opinion rather than fact.
e.g. "In my experience, it crashes when I update it.". Because it's not a fact that it does for everyone, but it's a fact that it does for you (which we've discussed, but my impression is that presently you still have not resolved to accept the technical descriptions and concepts in which the alternatives to your own understandings, exist), and therefore people will accept it.

Last edited by drmozes; 04-24-2018 at 03:29 AM.
 
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:10 AM   #20
Darth Vader
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From my own experience with the SlackwareARM -current or 14.2, they both are fine and well when you update them, similar with x86 counterparts.

BUT, there is a catch: I talk about the installations in a SATA or USB harddrive, just like @drmozes recommends anyways.

Still I believe that living with the OS in a SD-card (like the Raspberrians do) is a way which gives you so many headaches, and I do not exclude the upgrading issues in those ultra-customized systems.

But I think they does not count, as @drmozes does not recommend installing SlackwareARM in a SD-card anyway and even those RPIs aren't officially supported (by him).

Last edited by Darth Vader; 04-24-2018 at 04:30 AM.
 
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Old 04-24-2018, 05:14 AM   #21
Penthux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
From my own experience with the SlackwareARM -current or 14.2, they both are fine and well when you update them, similar with x86 counterparts.
This is my experience too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
But I think they does not count, as @drmozes does not recommend installing SlackwareARM in a SD-card anyway and even those RPIs aren't officially supported (by him).
Running any OS on a SD card is risky, especially if data-loss is a critical factor. Usually when things go wrong with SD cards you better have backups or you're screwed. Some cards tend to badly overheat causing no end of troubles.

I bet drmozes doesn't support the Raspberry Pis (officially or otherwise) because his integrity and self-respect isn't that low.
 
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Old 04-24-2018, 07:06 PM   #22
abga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmozes View Post
It's usable and stable when I update it, when you use upgradepkg/installpkg as suggested.

I respectfully ask that in your future messages please write it as opinion rather than fact.
The arguments for my whole factual section related to the use of Slackware ARM -current, not only the sentence you've picked to quote, were:
- the OP is inexperienced (finds it difficult to install Slackware)
- considers Slackware ARM -current as unstable (considers to wait for a mature release)
- most importantly - I knew that slackpkg is inconsistent and remember it was removed from Slackware ARM -current
- at least the security related fixes should be updated on a system and I found it important to mention. Manually, if the OP had replied / asked about

Here you have some additional facts - slackpkg is documented as the tool for updating the system:
https://docs.slackware.com/slackware:beginners_guide
https://docs.slackware.com/slackware:slackpkg

Now, not sure where upgradepkg/installpkg is/was "suggested" but another fact is that slackpkg is removed from Slackware ARM -current, that's according to your factual statement. I haven't checked it myself ever since, firstly because I trust you (your technical authority) and because, frankly, I stopped using it and only focusing on this security list, manually installing /compiling the packages that are crucial:
http://www.slackware.com/security/li...ecurity&y=2018
The last fact, I haven't seen any updates on the slackpkg subject in any recent post, might have missed some, after your last statement from this post:
https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...5/#post5814681
Quote:
slackpkg has been removed from -current on ARM, as I also found it inconsistent and had unexpected results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmozes View Post
e.g. "In my experience, it crashes when I update it.". Because it's not a fact that it does for everyone, but it's a fact that it does for you (which we've discussed, but my impression is that presently you still have not resolved to accept the technical descriptions and concepts in which the alternatives to your own understandings, exist), and therefore people will accept it.
TL;DR & totally off-topic
 
Old 04-24-2018, 08:14 PM   #23
Darth Vader
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Ha? So, this is your argument for that SlackwareARM is NOT updateable? The lack of SLACKPKG? BUT this will be a feature and a "back to roots" ...

Unfortunately, the SlackwareARM -current ships today this inconsistent thing with unexpected results, and which I never felt a need to use in those 20 years of Slackware usage.

And yeah, SLACKPKG is inconsistent and has unexpected results, has no importance the architecture. Just look in the main forum to see how many systems it messed.

Last edited by Darth Vader; 04-24-2018 at 08:29 PM.
 
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Old 04-25-2018, 02:37 AM   #24
Penthux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
The arguments for my whole factual section related to the use of Slackware ARM -current, not only the sentence you've picked to quote, were:
- the OP is inexperienced (finds it difficult to install Slackware)
- considers Slackware ARM -current as unstable (considers to wait for a mature release)
- most importantly - I knew that slackpkg is inconsistent and remember it was removed from Slackware ARM -current
- at least the security related fixes should be updated on a system and I found it important to mention. Manually, if the OP had replied / asked about
The recurring problem seems to be; your arguments are exactly that... ARGUMENTS! Usually for justifying yourself to yourself and others with a Biblical-epic type response, so it appears. So, here's my chapter! The whole point of learning is to grow in knowledge and experience so the same or similar mistakes aren't repeated. However, this seems to elude you or at least that's how it appears in the way you project yourself as some kind of Slackware ARM guru on this forum. You *can* be helpful, and productive/constructive with it, and there are things, it appears, you are quite experienced and knowledgeable about. It would be better all-round if you just stick to what you know.

Your modus operandi of quoting people (and/or misquoting and taking words out of context) in order to suit your argument(s) is quite insulting. You seem to do it at any and every opportunity, and create opportunity when it isn't needed or required. Nobody needs to be constantly reminded of what they did, or said, or wrote, at any given time in order to make you feel (or seemingly look) more intelligent by doing so.

The reaction to being corrected or told when you're wrong is to broadcast that your thread/post has been vandalised and that you're being vicitmised for no plausible reason. Even when such rebuke is 100% factual and justified! A better way to deal with any reprimand(s) is to eat humble pie, think before you act and say to yourself, "OK. I may have got that wrong but I'll know better in future" and learn from it. Anything else is futile and superfluous, and a waste of other people's time/effort more than your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
- the OP is inexperienced (finds it difficult to install Slackware)
- considers Slackware ARM -current as unstable (considers to wait for a mature release)
- most importantly - I knew that slackpkg is inconsistent and remember it was removed from Slackware ARM -current
- at least the security related fixes should be updated on a system and I found it important to mention. Manually, if the OP had replied / asked about
  • If the OP is inexperienced then the last thing I'd do would be to advise them to install Slackware ARM off the back of Raspbian. That's a method for when nothing else works or you want to play around with it on purpose.
  • Slackware ARM -current is NOT unstable! Even if it ever was it wouldn't be beyond the ambit of a software development branch.
  • Go have a play with slackpkg 2.83.0beta2 over at https://slackpkg.org and THEN tell the world how inconsistent it is!

Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
Here you have some additional facts - slackpkg is documented as the tool for updating the system:
https://docs.slackware.com/slackware:beginners_guide
https://docs.slackware.com/slackware:slackpkg
Go have a play with slackpkg 2.83.0beta2 over at https://slackpkg.org already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
Now, not sure where upgradepkg/installpkg is/was "suggested" but another fact is that slackpkg is removed from Slackware ARM -current, that's according to your factual statement. I haven't checked it myself ever since, firstly because I trust you (your technical authority) and because, frankly, I stopped using it and only focusing on this security list, manually installing /compiling the packages that are crucial:
http://www.slackware.com/security/li...ecurity&y=2018
The last fact, I haven't seen any updates on the slackpkg subject in any recent post, might have missed some, after your last statement from this post:
https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...5/#post5814681
[SARCASM]
As soon as I read Mozes' statement about removing slackpkg from -current I was in a state of disbelief, shock, mistrust and denial. I quickly wrote several emails to key personnel, including Pat Volkerding, ex-President Obama, and Gordon (my local butcher), explaining that this is an unacceptable and desperate act of spite and if I don't get my slackpkg back there will be grave consequences! So, Gordon must have spoken to Annie, (who runs the flowershop next door to the Post Office) because her cousin's nephew's best friends brother had told her sister-in-laws mother who lives two doors down from her son's girlfriend, who told her that Robbie Workman had announced a new slackpkg 2.83.0beta2 available for download from the official https://slackpkg.org/ website. My neighbour told me about it and my response was, "Oh thanks. Hey, who needs Google?" :P
[/SARCASM]

Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
TL;DR & totally off-topic
I think when Mozes tells you something regarding Slackware ARM you need to take heed of his words. I'd take that as firm instruction you need to put into action and not disregard it as off-topic. He is the creator, after all, and we are just users. That's end of line. The buck stops with him.

Incidentally, we've had various altercations over some things you've previously posted regarding SARPi, for similar reason(s). It needs to stop.
 
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:52 AM   #25
Darth Vader
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With a small note: indeed the Slackware ARM -current is unstable, as it is the development tree.

That those Slackware core developers has the gift to make their development trees more stable than other distributions stable channels, that's another story.
 
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Old 04-25-2018, 07:09 AM   #26
Penthux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
With a small note: indeed the Slackware ARM -current is unstable, as it is the development tree.
I disagree. Slackware ARM -current is implicitly stable on the RPis. Sometimes, there may be elements where things don't work as expected but who can predict or speak for what the developers have decided to change? I think the problem the OP experienced was that he hoped (or perhaps expected) Slackware ARM -current to meet his requirements and it didn't achieve that fully. In addition, he had other queries with SARPi instructions which differed from the running software with unexpected results. The situation required clarity and I hope that has now been realised in full by all concerned.

I've had Slackware ARM -current apart and back together again a gazillion times or more on the RPis. The only time it's ever been unstable for me is when I've done something to make it unstable. Otherwise Slackware ARM -current has been as dependable as the Sun coming up over the horizon every morning. Same for 14.2 soft float port.

Anyway, I'm expecting that we're all going to be told we're trolls and that we've vandalised this thread and someone will shortly be...

"/unsubscribed"

 
Old 04-25-2018, 06:01 PM   #27
MLagoa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mralk3 View Post
Why not use emacs or vim that come with Slackware? I almost exclusively use vim for all my word processing needs. Emacs has the ability to handle spreadsheets.

In my own experiences I've concluded that GUI Web browsers on the Pi, even in Raspbian, are not very functional. You should try text based browsers like links (comes with Slackware), w3m, and elinks.

Try searching for alternatives to Libreoffice and any other heavyweight software and I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised how much snappier Slackwarearm can run on any of the SBCs. I am not saying NOT to use Xfce, but to be more realistic with your systems resources.
Hello, Mralk3.
I know that Vim, Emacs and Links are excellent applications, they consume few resources and can be used on a non-GUI operating system.
But I prefer LibreOffice or any word processor with a graphical interface, spellchecker, dictionary, etc. and a browser "Chromium", "Firefox" or similar, because of the nature of my work.
For manipulating texts using a variety of artistic fonts, inserting images, and setting margins, paragraphs, and other things in documents that will be printed on papers of various sizes, it will be more productive for me if I work in applications with graphical interface.
I get all this on a Raspbian Operating System, however I wanted to do exactly the same things using Slackware ARM (because this Linux distribution is my preference).
Thanks for your advice, but I know the Raspberry Pi 3 B with graphical interface will suit my purposes well.

And my projects do not stop there!
I also want to install the Operating System on an SSD drive, so I have a more robust and more reliable system than the SD micro-cards.
When I get this, I'm going to transfer all my work on PC-Desktop to Raspberry.
The goal is to reduce monthly power usage and dramatically reduce noise emissions in my work environment (except for keyboard noises, of course!).
But this will be matter for a next topic.
At the moment, I just want to just run LibreOffice and Chromium or Firefox on Raspberry using Slackware.


By the way, this is one of my jobs:
http://livromanuara.blogspot.com.br/
https://www.americanas.com.br/produt..._00_botaoshare
 
Old 04-25-2018, 06:20 PM   #28
MLagoa
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Ok folks
Ok Abga, Penthux, Darth Vader, DrMozes ...
My topic really looks like a combat arena where we release all of our lions ... But I just wanted to know if there's any way to install an internet browser, a text editor (and maybe GIMP) on Raspberry "using Slackware "(because in Raspbian I already know that they work) ...
It was just that!
Anyway, I am grateful to all of you who participated in this topic, and so have designed for me a scenario of everything I will face to see my Raspberry running Slackware ARM stable with Office's apps the way I need it!

(I hope administrators do not mark me as "/ unsubscribed" because I just wanted to run Slackware on my Raspberry)
 
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Old 04-26-2018, 02:09 PM   #29
Penthux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLagoa View Post
(I hope administrators do not mark me as "/ unsubscribed" because I just wanted to run Slackware on my Raspberry)
Don't worry. They only do that to Raspbian fanboy posters in the Slackware ARM forum.

I'm only joking! lol
 
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