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Distribution: Slackware64-current with "True Multilib" and KDE4Town.
Posts: 9,086
Rep:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gezley
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this down to Debian and not XFCE? Debian pulls in all sorts of 'useful' dependencies that have nothing to do with XFCE. On Slackware and related distros XFCE has few if any Gnome dependencies. A distro like Slackware is the only place to make a true assessment of XFCE 4.8 because you know you're not getting the extra baggage that Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora developers stack on top.
In addition to what you find in Xfce 4.62, Mr. Workman lists the following dependencies for Xfce 4.8:
Distribution: Slackware64-current with "True Multilib" and KDE4Town.
Posts: 9,086
Rep:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gezley
My mistake - I should have clarified that on Slackware XFCE 4.6 has few if any Gnome dependencies. I have edited my post accordingly.
Thanks for the clarification.
Xfce 4.6x does run a few, e.g., gnome-pty-helper, polkit-gnome, and others.
If you want a good looking desktop there are other things to add, such as libgnomecanvas (I'm not sure if this is a required dependency or not) and I believe the gnome icons and some other gnome goodies are all part of the Xfce package.
Some people install the gnome desktop manager, libcanberra, etc.
In the session settings, you can define what is started when you start xfce. I have unchecked a lot of the gnome related items because I haven't noticed any benefits to using them (for me, I don't have any other boxes to SSH into). That being said, I haven't really noticed any improvements in responsiveness from xfce when having those unchecked. The first-time loading of xfce from run level 3 when I boot my laptop is still just as slow.
In the session settings, you can define what is started when you start xfce. I have unchecked a lot of the gnome related items because I haven't noticed any benefits to using them (for me, I don't have any other boxes to SSH into). That being said, I haven't really noticed any improvements in responsiveness from xfce when having those unchecked. The first-time loading of xfce from run level 3 when I boot my laptop is still just as slow.
That works as long as you do not use Thunar to browse any network shares, that's how I have my PC setup. I wonder if removing the ssh/gpg patch will fix this keyring crap. I'm going to play around with Xfce in a VM when I get the chance. See if I can trim some of the fat I'm not convinced Avahi is needed, among a few other things.
This is my Girlfriend's laptop, uptime of 17:06:17 up 2:30, 2 users, load average: 0.87, 0.88, 1.13. She's never launched a file manager, and only uses Chrome and Pidgin, that's it . I did not disable the keyrings in session management.
I find it troubling that the conclusion seems foregone in this discussion that using more GNOME libraries and dependencies means that Xfce 4.8 is more "bloated."
Xfce uses GTK+, the GNOME toolkit. It's gotta use some toolkit or another, and for a desktop environment, you've pretty much got three choices these days: GTK+, QT, and "write your own."
Just because Xfce depends on GTK+ and other GNOME libraries does not mean that it's "bloated" the way that GNOME and KDE are. I could have two different programs using the same library; let's say libssl ... just because one of the two programs is an inefficient, bloated mess, it doesn't necessarily follow that the other one is, too, just because they use the same library.
To say "Xfce 4.8 depends on more GNOME packages" is not the same as saying "Xfce 4.8 is more bloated and/or more like GNOME."
Especially in the context of Slackware, it's interesting that these terms are even thrown around, given what a repugnant sweat hog our default DE is ... hehehe.
That works as long as you do not use Thunar to browse any network shares, that's how I have my PC setup. I wonder if removing the ssh/gpg patch will fix this keyring crap. I'm going to play around with Xfce in a VM when I get the chance. See if I can trim some of the fat I'm not convinced Avahi is needed, among a few other things.
This is my Girlfriend's laptop, uptime of 17:06:17 up 2:30, 2 users, load average: 0.87, 0.88, 1.13. She's never launched a file manager, and only uses Chrome and Pidgin, that's it . I did not disable the keyrings in session management.
By contrast here's mine with the agents disabled in session management. I have Thunar, and Xfe open right now.
Code:
@disturbed1:/tmp$ ls
claws-mail-1000= installed/ kde-keith/ ksocket-keith/ orbit-keith/ plugtmp/ template-eTwOOm
EWWWWWWWEWEWEW.
I'll preface this with "I have no idea what's going on there" -- BUT -- I don't see that behavior here. It *might* have something to do with the "autostart-in-all-but-kde.patch.gz" patch I apply to gnome-keyring. As it turns out, that patch isn't really needed, I don't think -- the correct way to use gnome-keyring in xfce is to check the box for "enable gnome services" or some such in the Sessions and Startup preferences.
I have another wild idea, but I want to hear feedback on the first idea before I throw out the next one. Out of curiosity, have you restarted xfce a *lot* recently?
Now to figure out what launches gnome-keyring
Launched Thunar and clicked on a couple of PCs through the network icon.
Code:
|grep keyring
xfce4-ses 14800 keith mem REG 8,1 132504 971446 /usr/lib64/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
gvfsd 14809 keith mem REG 8,1 132504 971446 /usr/lib64/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
gdu-notif 14834 keith mem REG 8,1 132504 971446 /usr/lib64/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
gvfs-gdu- 14952 keith mem REG 8,1 132504 971446 /usr/lib64/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
gvfsd-tra 15167 keith mem REG 8,1 132504 971446 /usr/lib64/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
gvfsd-net 15169 keith mem REG 8,1 132504 971446 /usr/lib64/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
gvfsd-smb 15172 keith mem REG 8,1 132504 971446 /usr/lib64/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
gvfsd-dns 15180 keith mem REG 8,1 132504 971446 /usr/lib64/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
gvfsd-smb 15221 keith mem REG 8,1 132504 971446 /usr/lib64/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
gvfsd-sft 15245 keith mem REG 8,1 132504 971446 /usr/lib64/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
gvfsd-smb 22771 keith mem REG 8,1 132504 971446 /usr/lib64/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
gvfsd-sft 22802 keith mem REG 8,1 132504 971446 /usr/lib64/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
Which looks correct, and /tmp has the correct number of keyring dirs (one for each connection I made). I waited 30 minutes and no new ones showed up.
On my Girlfriend's laptop, I clean out /tmp, fresh reboot, logged into xfce. 12 keyring dir's were created at login.
Code:
lsof |grep keyring
lsof: WARNING: can't stat() fuse.gvfs-fuse-daemon file system /home/jewels/.gvfs
Output information may be incomplete.
xfce4-ses 1675 jewels mem REG 8,1 113656 2146861 /usr/lib/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
gvfsd 1684 jewels mem REG 8,1 113656 2146861 /usr/lib/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
gdu-notif 1772 jewels mem REG 8,1 113656 2146861 /usr/lib/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
nm-applet 1788 jewels mem REG 8,1 113656 2146861 /usr/lib/libgnome-keyring.so.0.1.1
I launched Google Chrome <--- That's the problem. It asks for the keyring password. Appears as if each and every site you visit that you log into creates the keyring dirs. I'll have to monitor this a little bit.
Another problem is, once I close Thunar, and the network connection, it keeps libgnome-keyring open, along with (multiple) ssh, sftp-server, and a slew of gvfsd-$PROTOCOL.
We also do not have KDE nor Gnome services selected to start with Xfce.
Last edited by disturbed1; 01-25-2011 at 11:37 PM.
Well, the keyring should clean up after itself, I would think. Of course, we know how that likes to end.
Try starting the gnome services with Xfce -- after seeing your debugging, I think I *did* encounter this, but under very different circumstances. The summary is: gkr doesn't seem to know how to register itself in the environment (but I don't know whose fault that is), and thus it's simply not running, as far as any subsequent app launches are concerned. I discovered this when initially replacing my usage of ssh-agent and gpg-agent in my $HOME/.xprofile -- I had to kludge something to actually put the GNOME_KEYRING_CONTROL, SSH_AUTH_SOCK, GPG_AGENT_INFO, and such into the environment. Starting gnome services with xfce solved that.
I don't know exactly what xfce does when that box is checked, but whatever it is makes gkr know how to register itself. Perhaps it emulates gnome-session a bit, but ultimately, I need to look at the code and see. Too much to do, but not enough circular tuits these days...
I launched Google Chrome <--- That's the problem. It asks for the keyring password. Appears as if each and every site you visit that you log into creates the keyring dirs. I'll have to monitor this a little bit.
Not exactly what I said it was.
ANYTHING that uses gnome keyring, upon launch creates new keyring folders.
If I start with 0 keyring-*, open and close Chrome (or anything that uses gnome-keyring) x times, I'll have x keyring- dirs. At least when you close Chrome is does release libgnome-keyring.
It's nm-applet that causes the 12 keyring- dirs at login - which means at each suspend/resume - 12 more.
Removing keyring services from autostart does nothing, Gnome services at start, also does nothing.
Schemas were not compiled - running the following -
Code:
glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas
This fixes the multiple keyring dirs being created. I now have one keyring dir, can close and open chrome, nm-applet ---- whatever to my hearts content, and only have a single keyring dir. AND logging out cleans the tmp directory.
Distribution: Slackware64-current with "True Multilib" and KDE4Town.
Posts: 9,086
Rep:
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodown
I find it troubling that the conclusion seems foregone in this discussion that using more GNOME libraries and dependencies means that Xfce 4.8 is more "bloated."....
Same, same, but different.
I try to keep my desktop configuration in Xfce and KDE as close to the same as possible. Using Xfce 4.8 and all the dependencies as outlined by Mr. Workman, the amount of memory used is within 30-40 megs of my KDE desktop using 4.5.95, but not the evil triplet. Sounds like "bloat" to me.
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