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Old 11-27-2010, 08:54 AM   #61
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2handband View Post
But Gnome is just stupid.
Each to his own. I say live and let live. The good people at GSB do an excellent job of maintaining a stable version of Gnome for Slackware (I've tried out GSB several times). I don't run Gnome at the moment, but, I think it is a good choice for people who like it. I feel fortunate that Pat's creation gives us the flexibility to choose our own pathway.
 
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Old 11-27-2010, 08:59 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitest View Post
Each to his own. I say live and let live. The good people at GSB do an excellent job of maintaining a stable version of Gnome for Slackware (I've tried out GSB several times). I don't run Gnome at the moment, but, I think it is a good choice for people who like it. I feel fortunate that Pat's creation gives us the flexibility to choose our own pathway.
Okay, bad choice of words on my part. But I'll never understand why anyone would use something that restricts your choices. The default KDE movie player is Dragonplayer; I don't like it so I switch over to Kaffeine. Easy. The default file browser is Dolphin, I think it sucks, so a couple of clicks and I've switched to konqueror. Easy. And so on. Trying to change that stuff in Gnome is a nightmare, and occasionally impossible.
 
Old 11-27-2010, 09:07 AM   #63
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2handband View Post
Okay, bad choice of words on my part. But I'll never understand why anyone would use something that restricts your choices. The default KDE movie player is Dragonplayer; I don't like it so I switch over to Kaffeine. Easy. The default file browser is Dolphin, I think it sucks, so a couple of clicks and I've switched to konqueror. Easy. And so on. Trying to change that stuff in Gnome is a nightmare, and occasionally impossible.
Some people *really* like Gnome. My sysadmin loves Gnome and is comfortable with it. I'm like you; I prefer not to be boxed in. This is why FOSS is such a wonderful thing. We get to do exactly want we want with our PCs. It is all good.
 
Old 11-27-2010, 10:35 AM   #64
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I have similiar feelings about KDE4 as igadoter (pozdrowienia z Łodzi). I run a small network in my office for ca. 20 users. It used to be KDE3 and Slack12 but not anymore. I upgraded the hardware recently and I was considering which system to set up. KDE4 is too resource hyngry and is all about special fx. Its functionality compared to KDE3 is lower and many important features are missing: you cannot print particular selected pages from Okular only the range of pages; useful math formula field in the taskbar is no longer present, etc.

I finally decided to ditch KDE and set up Salix (Slackware clone) with XFCE. XFCE functionality is still poorer than that of KDE3 but comparable to KDE4 and less resource hungry. The interesting future I found is custom actions in Thunar. One can define many interesting features there.

The only drawback is that the users were already accustomed with KDE3 and Konqueror as files manager and they are a bit lost when using Thunar (ie. default action when dragging is to copy; there are no tooltips with PDF preview, etc). I gues they would be lost with KDE4, too, anyway. The force of habbit is important issue often neglected by developers. They change interfaces and behaviour of applications and don`t realize that users are not always fanboys hungry for novelties but "normal users" with their habbits who use the computer for work.
 
Old 11-28-2010, 02:24 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
You could update the KDE 3.5 SlackBuild scripts so that they'll work on 13.1. A big project, sure, but I'm sure it's doable. And if there are other people that feel the same way you'll do, you'll gain their appreciation.
I started to think about it seriously. But the main obstacle is that I have to weak computer. On a dual core machine with 4 GB RAM compiling all source of Trinity lasts about 5 hours. So on my it will be optimistically 10 or more realistically 15 hours. At this moment I give a try to Kubuntu Maverick with preinstalled Trinity. All this is mainly Timothy Pearson work. I am very grateful for his effort to make KDE 3 not only live but developing. I wish I could help him.
 
Old 11-28-2010, 02:49 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igadoter View Post
I started to think about it seriously. But the main obstacle is that I have to weak computer. On a dual core machine with 4 GB RAM compiling all source of Trinity lasts about 5 hours. So on my it will be optimistically 10 or more realistically 15 hours. At this moment I give a try to Kubuntu Maverick with preinstalled Trinity. All this is mainly Timothy Pearson work. I am very grateful for his effort to make KDE 3 not only live but developing. I wish I could help him.
Not one person is going to build the entire suite every time something changes. The best thing to do for one person is to pick a component, bring it up to date, and maintain it from here out. That one person is going to spend the most time compiling just one component. Furthermore after any initial compile, "make" will only recompile small source modules that you make simple changes to--so not everything needs to recompiled all the time.

If you want Trinity to progress, I would make sure that a real management/maintenance structure gets put into place. They may very well consider removing some less important components. I cannot help out Trinity, but when I have come across a struggling project before, I pushed for knowledgeable leadership. Maybe it is already well on it's way--I don't know. Seeing the interest in it, maybe the project could succeed. But I have my own feelings about it, and I'm waiting to see.
 
Old 11-28-2010, 03:32 PM   #67
igadoter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the3dfxdude View Post
If you want Trinity to progress, I would make sure that a real management/maintenance structure gets put into place. They may very well consider removing some less important components. I cannot help out Trinity, but when I have come across a struggling project before, I pushed for knowledgeable leadership. Maybe it is already well on it's way--I don't know. Seeing the interest in it, maybe the project could succeed. But I have my own feelings about it, and I'm waiting to see.
I don't well understand what do you mean. I am a computer hobbyist. But I have a great self-learning abilities. And this is what I rely on.
 
Old 11-28-2010, 05:19 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2handband View Post
Seriously, I don't understand why anyone uses or likes Gnome. It almost impossible to change the default file browser, and anything on the desktop will open in Nautilus no mater what... WTF? Changing the default video player requires a rather arcane hack... WTF?

KDE 4.x isn't perfect by any means; I really wish they'd get around to setting up an auto-open feature for external media, for instance. But Gnome is just stupid.
I said LOL because I thought the wording of your post was funny.
I agree with you.
I don't like GNOME either.
IMHO it's ugly and difficult to configure.
To each their own I reckon.

Last edited by chytraeus; 11-28-2010 at 05:20 PM.
 
Old 11-28-2010, 10:19 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igadoter View Post
I don't well understand what do you mean. I am a computer hobbyist. But I have a great self-learning abilities. And this is what I rely on.
Well learning how to help, and getting direction from a manager comes from two different perspectives. Some projects have lots of people willing to help but no direction.

I would ask someone on Trinity how the work is progressing, and what needs to be done. Maybe you can be the next one to step in and help.
 
Old 11-28-2010, 10:38 PM   #70
igadoter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the3dfxdude View Post
I would ask someone on Trinity how the work is progressing, and what needs to be done. Maybe you can be the next one to step in and help.
I doubt I am of any use at this moment. It depends on the needs you mentioned. Now I am at the very beginning.
 
Old 11-29-2010, 05:15 PM   #71
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Derailments in this thread have been given its own (closed) thread at http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...lments-847310/.
tordfurden needs to pay more attention to working with the LQ community instead of against it.
I request all of you continue this discussion but leave out any comments that could derail this thread again.
No exceptions.
TIA
 
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Old 11-30-2010, 07:31 AM   #72
Ramurd
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Saying that KDE4 is "all about nice fx" gives me the impression the persion does not know what the DE actually does.
The look and feel of the interface is just a part of it, actually a minor part at that, or it would not be a Desktop Environment but just a Window Manager. (contemplate on that)

One important part which it does is give applications a common appearance and a common interface to enable them to interact more nicely. That you cannot print specific pages from Okular is not a thing that is missing in the Desktop Environment, but a change in behaviour of this specific application. (which by the by can quite easily be replaced.)

In that sense, KDE 4 is far more flexible and configurable than KDE 3.x.x; It's not perfect, but it's getting further and doing more than you think. As for resource hungry, from my experiences KDE 4 on the same machine is more responsive and less resource-hungry than KDE 3.

What it comes down to, what I'm writing here: rather than ranting that KDE 4 is bad, or that Slackware should've stayed with KDE 3.5 (which I wholeheartedly disagree with) you could point out things that don't work for you. Maybe someone is clever and can help you out getting a solution. One that enables you to stay up-to-date (in regards to security fixes, new possibilities, etc) and have a system that works for you.

If "all other DEs out there" are not good enough, you should pick the hammer that best fits your nails... if all you have is a screwdriver and a nail, you use the screwdriver to drive the nail in the wood.

So, please describe your issues, and see if there are actually solutions about. People here at LQ are very helpful, but they don't like being ranted to about what they consider good decisions.
 
Old 11-30-2010, 07:55 AM   #73
2handband
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramurd View Post
Saying that KDE4 is "all about nice fx" gives me the impression the persion does not know what the DE actually does.
The look and feel of the interface is just a part of it, actually a minor part at that, or it would not be a Desktop Environment but just a Window Manager. (contemplate on that)

One important part which it does is give applications a common appearance and a common interface to enable them to interact more nicely. That you cannot print specific pages from Okular is not a thing that is missing in the Desktop Environment, but a change in behaviour of this specific application. (which by the by can quite easily be replaced.)

In that sense, KDE 4 is far more flexible and configurable than KDE 3.x.x; It's not perfect, but it's getting further and doing more than you think. As for resource hungry, from my experiences KDE 4 on the same machine is more responsive and less resource-hungry than KDE 3.

What it comes down to, what I'm writing here: rather than ranting that KDE 4 is bad, or that Slackware should've stayed with KDE 3.5 (which I wholeheartedly disagree with) you could point out things that don't work for you. Maybe someone is clever and can help you out getting a solution. One that enables you to stay up-to-date (in regards to security fixes, new possibilities, etc) and have a system that works for you.

If "all other DEs out there" are not good enough, you should pick the hammer that best fits your nails... if all you have is a screwdriver and a nail, you use the screwdriver to drive the nail in the wood.

So, please describe your issues, and see if there are actually solutions about. People here at LQ are very helpful, but they don't like being ranted to about what they consider good decisions.
Very nicely summed up. I used KDE 3.5 right up until January of this year, but at this point (for me) KDE 4.x is a far more powerful and flexible desktop than 3.x ever was. The resource-usage issues are pretty much gone as of KDE 4.5... well, really KDE 4.4. It's faster than Gnome with all other things being equal, and I can attest to that for a fact. I can think of a few features I'd like to see, but none of them are show-stoppers.
 
Old 11-30-2010, 08:56 AM   #74
igadoter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramurd View Post
What it comes down to, what I'm writing here: rather than ranting that KDE 4 is bad,
I didn't say that KDE4 is bad
Quote:
or that Slackware should've stayed with KDE 3.5 (which I wholeheartedly disagree with) you could point out things that don't work for you.
It is exactly what I tried to avoid in this thread. As far as know there are threads, blogs, articles, where such issues are presented. But it seems for me that none of them led to a some kind of compromises or solutions. I think that on the side of KDE4 users there is no willingness to accept that there is something important missing in KDE4.
Quote:
If "all other DEs out there" are not good enough, you should pick the hammer that best fits your nails... if all you have is a screwdriver and a nail, you use the screwdriver to drive the nail in the wood.
Think about my problem as similar to a problem of choosing an IDE for writting programs.
Quote:
People here at LQ are very helpful, but they don't like being ranted to about what they consider good decisions.
It never was my intention to rant anyone for its choices.
 
Old 11-30-2010, 01:44 PM   #75
sycamorex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramurd View Post
So, please describe your issues, and see if there are actually solutions about. People here at LQ are very helpful, but they don't like being ranted to about what they consider good decisions.
I think it's a good idea. Without any specific issues to discuss we can ramble about the whole "KDE3.5 is (not) much better than KDE4.x" for eternity, but I don't really see the point of it.
The OP got a few suggestions about Trinity, 12.2, compiling KDE3.5, trying other distro with KDE3.5, etc. I don't think there's anything else to be said here. The number of options is limited and it's down to the OP now to make a choice. As simple as that.

Don't get me wrong igadoter, I understand your dilemma, but there's nothing else we can say. It's you who doesn't feel comfortable with KDE4.x and it's you who needs to make a decision.

By the way, IMO leaving Slackware because of KDE would be to totally miss the point about Slackware.
 
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