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Slackware This Forum is for the discussion of Slackware Linux.

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View Poll Results: What is Slackware's most enduring virtue?
SlackBuilds / The ability to compile from source 32 33.68%
BSD-style init system 37 38.95%
It just works! 66 69.47%
Text-based installer 20 21.05%
Other (comment in posts below) 13 13.68%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-13-2017, 10:42 PM   #61
Luridis
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Back in the 90's, it was my primary distro. However, I've built LFS since around 2005 due to the slowdown in updates and releases. So, these days I use it as a stable base to build LFS upon. Additionally, I don't see the need to run on a 15GB installation when I'm likely to only use 10% of it.
 
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:31 PM   #62
Synchronicity
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The two things that really drew me to Slackware are the frustration and the inconvenience.

The first time I picked it up, it was to learn about Linux from its "hands-off" design philosophy. That was around 10 years ago, before I had any experience with Linux, so you can probably guess how that turned out. I quickly dropped it for the Ubuntu family. It was fun, but once I got a career and a family, neither of which require Linux, I left the whole thing behind.

Until a few months ago when I decided to get back in the saddle. Now here I am, trying to turn Slackware into my primary OS, with... marginal success.

Why? Maybe because I'm a masochist. I could have gone back to Ubuntu, or any number of other user-friendly distros that I would have had up and running in a fraction of the time. Even after all I've learned, I would only charitably describe my Linux knowledge as intermediate, and it shows.

But I think the real impetus was uncertainty over the future. I like Windows 7, as much as one can like Windows. I need it, because I'm a gamer. It works well for me, but I am acutely aware that support for it will not last forever. One of these days, it will be retired, and I am far less certain now than in years past that I will be able to stomach an upgrade. I resisted the Windows 10 push because I knew there would be strings attached, a concern that has since been unequivocally validated. I don't mind paying for my software; I do mind not knowing what I'm paying.

So I'm getting in bed with Slack because if I'm going to take things into my own hands, I need to get elbow-deep into Linux, and this is the distro to let me do that. I've learned so much because that's literally my only option to progress. Slack doesn't care if I sink or swim. It doesn't let me be lazy. And its conservatism and steadfast commitment to its own philosophy makes it more important now than ever.
 
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:35 PM   #63
ttk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchronicity View Post
So I'm getting in bed with Slack because if I'm going to take things into my own hands, I need to get elbow-deep into Linux, and this is the distro to let me do that. I've learned so much because that's literally my only option to progress. Slack doesn't care if I sink or swim. It doesn't let me be lazy. And its conservatism and steadfast commitment to its own philosophy makes it more important now than ever.
That's an excellent reason, and a good point to make. If one wishes to be master of their own fate and captain of their soul, Linux (and Slackware in particular) is a good tool for keeping it that way.
 
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Old 08-14-2017, 05:51 PM   #64
SimonDevine
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Registered: Oct 2016
Location: Surrey, UK
Distribution: Slack 14.2 64 using KDE 4.14 on i3 rig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchronicity View Post
So I'm getting in bed with Slack because if I'm going to take things into my own hands, I need to get elbow-deep into Linux, and this is the distro to let me do that. I've learned so much because that's literally my only option to progress. Slack doesn't care if I sink or swim. It doesn't let me be lazy. And its conservatism and steadfast commitment to its own philosophy makes it more important now than ever.
I can only wholeheartedly concur. I moved to Slackware 14.2 64bit because it really does make one roll one's sleeves up and take it seriously as if we don't we are rightly going to get pigging headaches. It wasn't tough at all for me back with Version 8 (late 2001) but my circumstances & Slackware have changed since then.

Stick at it because the effort really is worth it. Took me months but I'm very happy now.
 
Old 08-15-2017, 12:59 PM   #65
Nate_KS
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Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Bremen, KS
Distribution: Slackware14.2 & Current, Devuan 1.0
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A bit of an OT rant.

I realize that it's a popular opinion that Slackware is not suitable for newbies. Perhaps it is the fact that I'm older and come from a different time or that I'm gaining curmudgeon status that I think such "wisdom" misguided. As I see it, a base Slackware installation is easier than ever but is still very familiar to the installation process I first experienced with Slackware 3.0 back in 1996. That experience aside, perhaps it was the fact that I had seven years of MS-DOS experience and prior to that six years of experience with a Radio Shack Color Computer 2 that made jumping into Slackware, Linux, GNU, XFree86, and the Unix philosophy a bit easier.

I'd like to say that my first installation worked perfectly. It did not. I'd like to say that I understood the Unix philosophy right away. I did not. I'd like to say I used no other reference than what was presented on screen. Fact is that I used many resources and printed many sheets of fan-fold paper through a dot matrix printer. That, I think was the key. At the time Slackware had such popularity that the venerable Linux Installation and Getting Started guide pretty much walked me through the entire process with explanations (it was rewritten to be more general in later years and lost its Slackware focus, IMO). Today that role is taken by the Slackware Wiki.

A bit of advice I picked up early on was to keep a notebook handy to use as a running log as changes were made, etc. I did that for the first few years until things were mostly second nature. I actually did a very similar thing recently writing a text file for setting up an OwnCloud and backup server.

Read the manual! That is the key to success whether one is a newbie or a grizzled veteran. Even the most grizzled veteran was a newbie once upon a time. Slackware is an excellent base from which to learn many concepts. So newbies, jump in! Read, read read!
 
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Old 08-15-2017, 01:37 PM   #66
Synchronicity
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Location: Columbus, OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate_KS View Post
I realize that it's a popular opinion that Slackware is not suitable for newbies. Perhaps it is the fact that I'm older and come from a different time or that I'm gaining curmudgeon status that I think such "wisdom" misguided. As I see it, a base Slackware installation is easier than ever but is still very familiar to the installation process I first experienced with Slackware 3.0 back in 1996. That experience aside, perhaps it was the fact that I had seven years of MS-DOS experience and prior to that six years of experience with a Radio Shack Color Computer 2 that made jumping into Slackware, Linux, GNU, XFree86, and the Unix philosophy a bit easier.
I think you may be confusing educational with easy. A calculus textbook is educational, but it won't be much help to someone who doesn't know algebra. Slackware's design agnosticism will teach you more about Linux than just about any other distro, but it makes the learning curve much sharper.

I definitely think your age plays a role in your perspective, because one consistent opinion I've seen about Slackware is that it is much easier to use for experienced Linux users. That makes sense, since it doesn't have any extra layers or fancy tools beyond the bare minimum. It's a lot easier to build your system as you like when there's nothing you need to tear down first.

For novice users, those extra layers that other distros add are their training wheels. They automate the more complicated tasks so that the user can start with the simpler ones. For someone like you, that stuff just gets in the way, but a newbie like me is barely hanging on without them.
 
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Old 08-15-2017, 03:19 PM   #67
1337_powerslacker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate_KS View Post
Read the manual! That is the key to success whether one is a newbie or a grizzled veteran. Even the most grizzled veteran was a newbie once upon a time. Slackware is an excellent base from which to learn many concepts. So newbies, jump in! Read, read read!
What I wouldn't give for newbies to understand this concept. Like yourself, I am older, and when I was first learning computers, reading was what you did to learn what to type in the computer. It was just second nature. Nowadays, people expect it to be spoon-fed to them. You learn nothing that way, except to run to that person when you have the slightest hang-up. Not a good habit to get into for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the wearing out of the welcome that occurs when that person realizes you have no intention of learning it yourself, and only want to leech off their knowledge. The term RTFM was popularized among the computing community for a good reason: You will learn more if you do so.

Last edited by 1337_powerslacker; 08-15-2017 at 03:41 PM.
 
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Old 08-15-2017, 03:46 PM   #68
onebuck
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Member response

Hi,

I totally agree that anyone who wishes to use Slackware should delve into available documentation.

I do like this;
Quote:
"Knowledge is of two kinds. We Know a subject ourselves, or we know where we can find information upon it."- Samuel Johnson
Hope this helps.
Have fun and enjoy!
 
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:41 PM   #69
Nate_KS
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Registered: Mar 2017
Location: Bremen, KS
Distribution: Slackware14.2 & Current, Devuan 1.0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchronicity View Post
I definitely think your age plays a role in your perspective, because one consistent opinion I've seen about Slackware is that it is much easier to use for experienced Linux users.
My first encounter with Slackware was in late summer of 1996. Until that point I had never used a Unix of any kind. In fact, I was incredulous that it was entirely legal for a friend to give me the CD so I could install it. I was thoroughly intrigued and read what I could find on the Web and on the CD. Not a whole lot made sense those first few weeks but I persevered as I saw the future in front of me on my computer. It wasn't until almost six months later that I acquired another hard drive and could carve out enough space to install XFree86 and get a window manager up and running (FVWM95!), and then Netscape, and on and on.

I write that not to gloat but to say that to one sufficiently motivated there are few obstacles. I fear that part of this "XXXX isn't suitable for newbies" is a form of condescension in that those that come after lack the sufficient intelligence and motivation to do what the those saying that did. I see plenty of people motivated to do a lot of stuff with Raspberry Pi computers. I have seen in amateur radio circles that people who a few years ago wouldn't have given Linux a thought are now jumping in because of those little computers. The initial installation appears very newbie friendly, and then when one sets out on a project, they find it is a rather challenging little beast. Again, motivation drives people to do new things.

I was motivated by wanting to use a system that employed preemptive multitasking (a term you don't see any more as it is now a standard feature of all current OSes). I forgot to mention that I had bought and installed OS/2 2.1 before Slackware, but the lack of applications (the Windows app layer came later as I recall) kept me from using it much. Slackware '96 proved more powerful, faster, feature rich, and expansive than OS/2 was out of the box and with preemptive multitasking as part of the Unix design from the ground up.

I think we do ourselves a disservice any time we tell someone that something new to them (no matter what) may be difficult (I'm quite guilty as well). Many people still welcome a challenge so long as results are achieved in a reasonable time frame. I think that is another key, don't place a challenge that is so daunting in front of the newbie that failure seems like the only outcome. Even small successes build confidence, for example writing an image to a USB pen, booting from it, shutting it down, removing the pen, and then booting into the host system again gives confidence that this Linux thing can be trusted and so on.

I'll note that I'm a bit contrarian and when I read things like "installing Linux is only for experienced admins" back in the day, I got a bit riled and proved them wrong!
 
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:53 PM   #70
hitest
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Registered: Mar 2004
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From time to time I try out other distros. The last two distros I used were CentOS and Debian. They are both exceptional distros that work well. However, I always come home to Slackware. It's good to be home.
 
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:00 AM   #71
SCerovec
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Lightbulb

1. Slackware has correct documentation, and it's HOWTOs are real life applicable.
2. If something lacks - one can add it to Slackware - it has to fail me on that one yet
3. Maintenance is somewhat boring (other OS admins have "better" horror stories: success is quite boring to listen to)
4. Slackware has unmatched community support here on LQ in both response time and accuracy. Always add "LQ" to issues query
5. Unparalleled binary compatibility - hands down

is there anything more to ask for?
yes?
here goes:

a. sbotools (3rd party ports like utility set)
b. slackpkg OEM maintenance tool
c. slapt-get 3rd party pre-built packages manager with built in dependency resolving for the impatient ones
d. ARM port that works with recent kernels and tools (gcc7)
e. Flawless history record on security
f. Project leader (CEO?) in contact with the actual user base (ha! top that! )

The instance I find a better distro, I'm ditching Slackware for good...
... and still lookin'
 
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:59 PM   #72
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luridis View Post
Back in the 90's, it was my primary distro. However, I've built LFS since around 2005 due to the slowdown in updates and releases. So, these days I use it as a stable base to build LFS upon. Additionally, I don't see the need to run on a 15GB installation when I'm likely to only use 10% of it.
I truly don't wish to sidetrack such a great thread not to mention have this considered some sort of bait but I am actually quite curious about your circumstances that cause you to need updates and releases faster than Slackware provides them or for them. My curiosity probably stems from my opposing position of holding on to older releases while simply updating individual items as needed. That need for me is almost entirely hardware related in that an unchanged box with a working system is to me essentially like an appliance. For example I have an ancient laptop only retired last year that still ran Slackware 12.2 in 2016. I'm quite certain it will still work 10 maybe even 20 years from now.

So, what is it that drives your need for a fast update cycle?
 
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Old 08-26-2017, 05:00 PM   #73
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I truly don't wish to sidetrack such a great thread not to mention have this considered some sort of bait but I am actually quite curious about your circumstances that cause you to need updates and releases faster than Slackware provides them or for them. My curiosity probably stems from my opposing position of holding on to older releases while simply updating individual items as needed. That need for me is almost entirely hardware related in that an unchanged box with a working system is to me essentially like an appliance. For example I have an ancient laptop only retired last year that still ran Slackware 12.2 in 2016. I'm quite certain it will still work 10 maybe even 20 years from now.

So, what is it that drives your need for a fast update cycle?
shiny new sh*t syndrome....aka shiny object syndrome, shiny new penny syndrome, RedHat syndrome....
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/tec...enny-syndrome/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sungard...uffer-from-it/
 
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:24 AM   #74
elcore
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Most new boats are built from plastic and they require fuel, they're typical consumer products now.
Compared to that, Slackware is built like a battlecruiser, evidently it's not going to sink under the weight.
Want cannons on the side, steam stack, diesel engine, or just some sails and a plank? It's all there for you to consider.
It does nothing to prevent you from piercing the hull. There's no policy against it, and you can do that on your own accord.
Technically it's given us more freedom and more control, which is a rare thing.
 
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Old 08-27-2017, 10:44 AM   #75
1337_powerslacker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcore View Post
Most new boats are built from plastic and they require fuel, they're typical consumer products now.
It has more to do with the fact that our economy is geared more for planned obsolescence than it was during the Great Depression, where everything was made to last, and repaired as necessary. Now we just throw it away and buy a new product. Sad really, but it's reality.

Quote:
Compared to that, Slackware is built like a battlecruiser, evidently it's not going to sink under the weight.
Curious that you should make that particular comparison. These are built to last, hearkening back to when things were built to last, just like it was in the 90s, when Linux was just getting started. When you got your Linux system up and running, it stayed running until or unless you borked it yourself.

Quote:
Want cannons on the side, steam stack, diesel engine, or just some sails and a plank? It's all there for you to consider.
Slackware is not built with a specific user in mind; rather, it focuses on simplicity of installation, and then drops you at a command prompt after reboot. What you do then is up to you; how you want your system to function is dependent upon the documentation you've read, and reason from it how you want your particular system to behave.

Quote:
It does nothing to prevent you from piercing the hull. There's no policy against it, and you can do that on your own accord.
Whether you are intent on screwing up your system, or are just learning, Slackware does not prevent either. The freedom to explore and customize must also, by definition, come with the freedom to bork and sabotage as well. Two sides of the same coin

Quote:
Technically it's given us more freedom and more control, which is a rare thing.
Indeed it is, especially in this day and age, where the focus is on the new user. It has been forgotten that there are those of us still around who have had experience with Linux from early on, and just want our distro to leave us to what we want to do, without getting in our way.

Long Live Slackware!
 
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