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Old 08-24-2018, 07:38 AM   #31
ArchArael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
With Debian, after a couple of weeks, I had pretty much done all the learning I needed to do and the distro just sat there with the odd update and point release taken care of by apt. Comparatively, I have been with Slackware for eight months and I am still learning.
I absolutely agree that Slackware forces you to learn and be more independent. I have learned a lot from being Slackware user.

Your post was very interesting. Thank you for sharing.

Last edited by ArchArael; 08-24-2018 at 08:31 AM.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 07:48 AM   #32
upnort
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The last few posts have been insightful. Perhaps the points noted lead into the question asked in recent discussions about who is the target audience for Slackware? If Pat wants Slackware to be a foundation or building block distro then I think that intention needs to be loud and clear to new users and reviewers. If Pat wants to tread into pointy-clicky user-friendly GUI boot territory, then some sweat equity is needed to get to that point.

With respect to this thread, my post in the parent thread explains why I don't use Slackware at work.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 08:29 AM   #33
orbea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
With Debian, after a couple of weeks, I had pretty much done all the learning I needed to do and the distro just sat there with the odd update and point release taken care of by apt. Comparatively, I have been with Slackware for eight months and I am still learning.
I had a similar experience with Debian, I spent some time with it and had a fully working system, but I never really understood a lot of things such as building from source and resolving dependencies by hand. Their documentation on this and their own build process is also lacking, hard to find and / or non-existent. Eventually I moved on because some updates gave me a broken system I couldn't fix and chose Slackware because I understood it was a good place to learn.

Now several years later I actually kind of understand how the system works and can resolve issues on my own instead of waiting for the package maintainer to create a new package.
 
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Old 08-24-2018, 09:39 AM   #34
hitest
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I started with Linux in 2002 with Caldera OpenLinux 2.3 which later morphed into the hated SCO (lawsuits, etc.). After Caldera I eventually ended up with Red Hat 9 and was extremely happy with that distro. Red Hat discontinued their free version of Linux when they went to RHEL. I'm grateful that red Hat discontinued their free version of Linux as it forced me to look elsewhere and learn. After floundering about I moved to Slackware 10.0 in 2004. I had a not-so-gentle learning curve with Slackware and enjoyed the challenge of setting up my systems. Slackware gave me the confidence to tinker with other operating systems. I started using FreeBSD at 5.x and OpenBSD at 5.0.
I am very grateful to Pat and the entire Slackware Team for their dedication and tireless efforts in providing us with the best version of Linux.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 09:51 AM   #35
m.a.l.'s pa
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I've used a lot of different distros but have not (yet) tried Slackware. I've read quite a bit about it, and I'm finding this thread, along with the "Why did you stop using Slackware?" thread, to be quite interesting and informative. So far, I haven't seen anything to make me think that it would be any better for me than the distros I've got installed here right now.

Along with Debian Stable and Arch, which are really my go-to distros these days, I'm also running Kubuntu and Antergos. And sometimes I play around with BunsenLabs and SalentOS, which I've got on a spare machine.

I haven't quite found the time, energy, or interest to get started with Slackware -- maybe I'm just lazy, or maybe I'm happy enough using other distros, or maybe a little of both. Whatever. From what I gather, Slackware's an excellent distro, and I'm impressed that most of its users seem to stick with it for quite a long time. Perhaps one day I'll get around to it. Not today, though.
 
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Old 08-24-2018, 09:55 AM   #36
hitest
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by m.a.l.'s pa View Post
Perhaps one day I'll get around to it. Not today, though.
I also really like Debian and Arch(I'm running them as VMs on my main Slackware64-current box). Arch and Debian are wonderful distros.
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Old 08-24-2018, 10:44 AM   #37
Gordie
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You know, I hear negative comments about the text-based installer and just marvel at them. Almost all the BSDs have text-based installers and I am not sure that stops anyone from installing them.

Me - It was not the installer that was scary but the requirement to use fdisk or cfdisk to partition and format my hard drive. I had no concept of how Windows got in my computer in the first place and thought I was going to wreck my computer. Am not sure how to persuade new users to get past this hurdle.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 10:52 AM   #38
ArchArael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordie View Post
You know, I hear negative comments about the text-based installer and just marvel at them. Almost all the BSDs have text-based installers and I am not sure that stops anyone from installing them.

Me - It was not the installer that was scary but the requirement to use fdisk or cfdisk to partition and format my hard drive. I had no concept of how Windows got in my computer in the first place and thought I was going to wreck my computer. Am not sure how to persuade new users to get past this hurdle.
I don't think you can and should persuade the users to accept the text-based installer. Slackware install process is actually very simple, but requires you to read and pay attention. The whole point of my post where I am talking about barriers is to show that even if a user goes through the install process there are other hurdles awaiting him/her along the way.

Only highly motivated users become and remain Slackware users.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 03:40 PM   #39
brianL
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Slackware (or Linux in general) isn't the problem, neither the installation nor the running of it. People are the problem. Some are reluctant to, or refuse to, adapt. Some won't let go of their ideas of how things are done on Windows or other distros.
 
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Old 08-24-2018, 04:25 PM   #40
rokytnji
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Quote:
Why didn't you start using Slackware, yet?
After finally learning enough to interpret the text installer. Plus finally having a spare functioning Acer C 710 chromebook. Only thing stopping me presently is the durn write protect socket is being stubborn on not shorting bios write protect pins together.

It is not my 1st rodeo on chromebooks and linux. I have hands on experience jumpering write protect pins on a Acer C 710. AntiX 17.1 full iso runs on my other Acer C710. All hardware is recognized and minor tweaking for tap on mousepad for 2 finger control was all I needed for a good linux install on a Chromebook. Using less resources while running with no needed input or tweaking from me.

Mainly I am posting in this thread because I am interested in the tag file links in this thread and wish to find them easy without subscribing to this thread.

Like others posted here. I learned Puppy Linux, Slax, DSL, and other minimal distros since my hardware was aged.

I considered Slackware a more modern machine support type of distro.
Heck. I have installed Salix Fluxbox and Slackel on single core atom touchscreen net books.

Ran them for a year. Stable. But pulled a little more ram in at initial boot up after login screen on 1st screen at idle. AntiX linux pulled less in the same situation on those netbooks. < 200 MB vs 85 MB >
Plus Salix stayed at Slackware 14.1 but XFCE version of Salix was upped to Slackware 14.2.

So. I guess lots of reasons here and there.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 04:39 PM   #41
bbKid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
The thread "What did you stop using Slackware" makes me hope that this one can lead to interesting responses too.

To feed the pump, we already have one here.
I have using it, starting from 2004 (9.1 version).
Have fun.
 
Old 08-24-2018, 05:27 PM   #42
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
Slackware (or Linux in general) isn't the problem, neither the installation nor the running of it. People are the problem. Some are reluctant to, or refuse to, adapt. Some won't let go of their ideas of how things are done on Windows or other distros.
In my case, you're for the very most part correct. But it's not that "I won't let go of how other distros do things", and certainly not the Windows way , it's really because I'm far too lazy. But I agree it's not Linux or Slackware itself, as Slackware is still a Linux distro regardless of how it does things. Once again, just pure laziness on my part.

Sooo, maybe if there was a GUI installer for Slackware, nah, only kidding, I'd still be far too lazy. What can I say? Sorry, I already did

But, at least I know where to come for help with it tho. From what I see, there's plenty of that available in this forum.
 
Old 08-25-2018, 02:11 AM   #43
l0f4r0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchArael View Post
While I think you are on spot on the installer I think that the installer is the second barrier. The first barrier is the reputation of this distro.
When people talk about Slackware they say it is simple but too difficult for the new users. The first barrier keeps out most of the inexperienced users.
I think that the installer stops the users who are willing to try but are not familiar with CLI.
The installer itself is a text based interface and to complete the installation you need to know how to use the shell.
So the first and second barrier stop the inexperienced users and keep them out.
For the more experienced users who are able to complete the installation then there is the obsolescence, which is the third barrier. Many programs, although stable are also very old.
This leads us to the fourth barrier, which is dealing with dependencies and programs not included in the stock distro.
If you are lucky enough that you find everything you need in the stock repo you are good to go and the experience is not that different from other distros and barriers usually stop here.
If you need to upgrade the programs you deem too old then you need to deal with dependencies. If you need programs not included in the official repo you need to deal with dependencies.
In both cases you need to compile or rely on external repositories like slacky. I suspect that at this point many experienced users give up. The fourth barrier is a going to be there forever.
If they trust the external repositories, find the quality of the packages acceptable and don't want to compile then they are good to go, the fourth barrier is breached.
But if they don't trust the external repositories then they have to compile the packages they need and they reach the fifth barrier.
To breach the fifth barrier they have sbopkg and sbotools or SlackBuild scripts directly.
I think many give up at this point, experienced or not. The fifth barrier means they will need to keep up with updates on these packages by themselves, regardless of the tool.
Some users breach the fifth barrier because they don't mind compiling so they stay. But using a distro is a marathon and when compiling there are issues from time to time.
Some of the users who decided to stay might get fed up after a while, give up and go back to another distro. This is my case, it happened after years.
My point is that many users have tried Slackware and most of them even used it for a while.
But staying requires a certain quality that not many, included myself, have.
It requires a certain degree of passion and will to do it yourself, in the long run.
I think the Slackware userbase is not that huge because there are many barriers to overcome to get a functional system and to keep it running.
Many people just want to get things done and the tool is just an afterthought. This is not my case. I pick my tools carefully and tailor them to my needs.
But for some people Slackware is just too much effort and too little reward.
I have learned that people who stay have solid reasons, are passionate about Slackware and have enough will to overcome and deal with any of these barriers.
I really respect that.
Then maybe "Slackware" is a misnomer as it is not really for "slacker" people ^^
 
Old 08-25-2018, 02:56 AM   #44
ArchArael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l0f4r0 View Post
Then maybe "Slackware" is a misnomer as it is not really for "slacker" people ^^
Well, I guess if you have all your needs covered by the original repository and you install everything it is a slacker distro. Not much is left to do after but using it.
 
Old 08-25-2018, 04:30 AM   #45
fatmac
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Slackware became irrelevant to me when I found Debian 2.1 - at that time using apt-get to install software was so much easier than anything else that I found.

I've been using Debian based distros ever since, even after they decided to corrupt it with systemd, as I use non systemd distros.

One of the main reasons I won't go back to Slack is that I've just got so used to live/installable distros that can be easily remastered, (AntiX/MX - TinyCore) - if I want to - I don't think any Slack distro does that.

Slack's a good distro - just not for me - if I want more control over everything, I use OpenBSD.
 
  


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