what make Slackware unique

linuxJaver · 10-15-2003, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wartstew Now for some downsides:

I actually like system-V init scripts. With them you can start and stop individual services at any time, and/or easily configure which ones you want to run for any given run level. This is only one reason why Slackware is a long way from complying with the "Linux Standards Base".

There is plenty of dependancy hell with Slackware too. It is just different. There is no dependency checking so when you install/upgrade something and try to run it you find out quickly what librarys are missing. You then have to go find them. The new "swaret" script helps, but I am currently having of trouble with it (typical of what I explained above).

For those scripts in /etc/rc.d/rc.<<scripts>>, u can start n stop them at any time if they implemented start(),stop(),restart(), have to look into the scripts to know if.. Such menu-driven services management seemed to have xinetd behind, (they r started, stoped by him, see xinetd for more). I am not so clear about the advantage/disadvantage of having services started by xinetd or manually (stand alone), might related to performance, cpu process priority issues.

I wrote menu for managing those services in /etc/rc.d/rc.scripts in ~/.mwmrc for confortability. The /etc/rc.d/rc.<<scripts>> have to be made executable first. Wut in turn will be automatically started during booting (negative!). I'd rather to have say a /etc/rc.d/run-at-booting.txt for configuring which service to start at booting. Currently they will be started if they have the "--x------" bit set for.

Code:

Menu "mBtn2"
{
  "RC.SERVICES"         f.title
  "Name Service"        f.menu "mBind"
  "Apache Server"       f.menu "mHttpd"
  "Ssh Daemon"          f.menu "mSshd"
  "MySql Daemon"        f.menu "mMysqld"
  "Love Parade"         f.menu "mSamba"
}

Menu "mBind"
{
  "start"       f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.bind start"
  "stop"        f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.bind stop
  "restart"     f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.bind restart"
}

Menu "mHttpd"
{
  "start"       f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.httpd start"
  "stop"        f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.httpd stop
  "restart"     f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.httpd restart"
}

Menu "mSshd"
{
  "start"       f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.sshd start"
  "stop"        f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.sshd stop
  "restart"     f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.sshd restart"
}

Menu "mMysqld"
{
  "start"       f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.mysqld start"
  "stop"        f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.mysqld stop
  "restart"     f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.mysqld restart"
}

Menu "mSamba"
{
  "Samba Daemon" f.title
  "start"       f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.samba start"
  "stop"        f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.samba stop
  "restart"     f.exec "/etc/rc.d/rc.samba restart"
}

But I find it more comfortable to have shell aliases for controling them in ~/.bashrc:

Code:

a ph='ps -ax|grep httpd'
a rha='/etc/rc.d/rc.httpd start;netstat -vat'
a rho='/etc/rc.d/rc.httpd stop'
a rhr='/etc/rc.d/rc.httpd restart;netstat -vat'

a pn='ps -ax|grep named'
a rba='/etc/rc.d/rc.bind start;netstat -vat'
a rbo='/etc/rc.d/rc.bind stop'
a rbr='/etc/rc.d/rc.bind restart;netstat -vat'

a lii='clear;less /etc/dhcpc/dhcpcd-eth1.info'
a ia='clear;/sbin/ifconfig -a'
a e0up='/sbin/ifconfig eth0 10.9.8.1 broadcast 10.9.8.255 netmask 255.255.255.0;sleep 2;ifconfig -a'
a e0down='/sbin/ifconfig eth0 down;sleep 2;ifconfig -a'
a e1up='/sbin/dhcpcd -t 10 -R -l 1209600 -d eth1;sleep 2;route -n'
a e1down='/sbin/dhcpcd -k -d eth1;sleep 2;route -n'

In fact if u look into the /etc/rc.d/scripts u ll find the key command that is used for starting/stoping the processes. That is wut u need, n thankfull for master P. for making them that simple .. In "other-distro" u ll find redudant of them laying around, that confuses ..

Apopro redudance: I remember a comment from either a C++ or Java expert, that said wut make Java better than C++ is "the cut off of the C++ many redudance for the same purpose, C++ is getting too thick of those". That is wut matter, n that is wut makes "Simplicity is Define". That is realy matter at least for me..

Oh yeah, many thing that I dun understand why did slack don't do this or that .. seemed to be outdated compared to "other distro" but, later I often find out that it is not that bad to do that like this after I get deep enough into ..

wartstew · 10-16-2003, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by linuxJaver
For those scripts in /etc/rc.d/rc.<<scripts>>, u can start n stop them at any time if they implemented start(),stop(),restart(), have to look into the scripts to know if..

This is standard sysV behavior. I didn't know you could do this with Slack's *BSD like scripts. I guess I need to look closer.

That said, Slack still doesn't offer as much control over things as the "true sysV" distros do. With others, you can turn on and off every service by itself. With Slack you would only be able control more limited list of things as dictated by their shorter list of script files.

Quote:

Such menu-driven services management seemed to have xinetd behind, (they r started, stoped by him, see xinetd for more). I am not so clear about the advantage/disadvantage of having services started by xinetd or manually (stand alone), might related to performance, cpu process priority issues.

Yes inetd is useful services that only get used occasionally. For example, "sshd" for remote administration purposes. With inetd, this service will start up only when a request is made for it on the TCP stack, then it shuts down after it is idle. This saves memory resources since it isn't loaded most of the time. There is delay and overhead doing this however, so you probably shouldn't use inetd for services that are used often. Some services don't work well from inetd "nmbd" is a good example of this.

Quote:

I wrote menu for managing those services in /etc/rc.d/rc.scripts in ~/.mwmrc for confortability.

Great, thanks, maybe I'll try it out!

Quote:

Oh yeah, many thing that I dun understand why did slack don't do this or that .. seemed to be outdated compared to "other distro" but, later I often find out that it is not that bad to do that like this after I get deep enough into ..

Often "newer" ways of doing things are not "better" ways of doing things.

mcleprechaun · 10-16-2003, 01:22 PM

I like Slackware because I started as a newbie on Red Hat then Mandrake then back to Red Hat trying to figure out how to make Linux do what we needed so we didn't need another M$ server. When I downloaded and installed Slackware the first time (4 years ago) I found an init sequence that I could understand with text files I could edit to set things up like they needed to be. We were just trying to set up a mail/ftp/web server and Slackware worked out great.
Yes, I have run into dependency problems and headaches at times but I had more of them with the other distros and they were harder to overcome. Now we have a Slackware firewall, a Slackware Web/FTP/Mail Server, a Slackware Intranet server with a PostgreSQL database running on the backend, two Slackware data servers (320 GB on each) running the SGI XFS file system so that file sizes can go over 2GB without disaster.
When our company started down this Linux and Open Source road, I was a newbie to Linux and had no support other than the internet where I was able to find answers to any issue that confronted me! This is only the second time I have ever posted anything, I always found what I need just reading other folks questions.
I love Slackware because it is part of the greatest movement in my lifetime, Open Source Software. You can do anything for practically nothing but I encourage everyone to order the 4 CD set from the Slackware Store and send a few bucks Patricks way.

geno976 · 10-16-2003, 01:50 PM

Quote:

I love Slackware because it is part of the greatest movement in my lifetime, Open Source Software. You can do anything for practically nothing but I encourage everyone to order the 4 CD set from the Slackware Store and send a few bucks Patricks way.

ditto.

-geno

EyesOnly · 10-16-2003, 02:09 PM

I have used SuSE and redhat before. Both are nice systems, but quite complex. They have nice graphical wizards for almost everything. But if these fail(or if you want more than the wizards let you do), you will have to dig in to the system under the GUI.
At that point you have no idea what to do, since you have let the wizards do all the work before, and because the underlying system is quite complex.

Slackware doesn't have these wizards, so you will have to configure the system yourself, which is a good thing. in the first week of using slackware I've learned more than I've ever learned before whit suse and redhat.

My latest system before slackware was redhat. I found this system to work very slow.(for example,when i was playing a mp3, and at the same time was opening another app, the sound would 'stutter').

Slackware works much faster, and it picked up every piece of hardware right from the start, which redhat did to, but some did't work right(but that could also be because the redhat version was somewhat older than the slackware version)

And also the packaging system is very nice. I haven't had much dependency problems whit slackware, but I've had tons of those problems whit redhat..

So i love slackware because of it's simplicity!

jaa1180 · 12-29-2003, 09:58 AM

But what about software, Gentoo has thousands of apps as does Mandrake and others. What about slack?? Where is all the software at? I don't want to spend all my time downloading software and trying to get it installed. I am having problems with Mandy 9.2 PP and Gentoo was too hard to get working. Fedora stinks... so what does a linux brother do?

EyesOnly · 12-29-2003, 10:11 AM

Slackware has quite a lot of software on that single CD. When you need other software you will have to download it. For many software there are precompiled slackware packages., but this is not always the case.
IF there are precompiled packages available, they are usually for redhat(so that will be fedora now...).
You can convert these packages with rpm2tgz, and then install them the normal slackware-way. I have done this about a thousand times, it never failed for me.

quess what; these redhat-packages worked ALWAYS on slackware for me, but on redhat they have failed a lot, because of missing dependecies.

But i think the basic slackware setup will be enough to keep you busy for a while, there is a lot of software on that disc

ANd if you don't like downloading, you can always get SuSE. I have used SuSE 6.3, wich is on 6 CD's. defenitly more software than you are every going to use.(don't know about more recent versions of SuSE, I suppose it are still alot of discs..)

Quote:

so what does a linux brother do?

I would say slackware... but that's because I like slackware, I don't know what you like

So why not try it?

wartstew · 12-29-2003, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaa1180
But what about software, Gentoo has thousands of apps as does Mandrake and others. What about slack?? Where is all the software at? I don't want to spend all my time downloading software and trying to get it installed.

There is quite a lot of stuff nicely organized at:

http://www.linuxpackages.net

Of course you DO have to download it. What software are you lacking? It is true that some of the "desktop optimized" distributions like Mandrake and SuSe have more cool desktop apps included, but I was usually able to get the few critical apps I wanted installed on Slackware without much trouble.

The ease of software selection (and the fact that I do have a high speed internet connection) is what is driving me towards Debian-Unstable however. It is real nice to point and click on things from a 13000 app list and have it quickly install and setup (even install entries in each of my installed window manager!) quickly and automatically.

jaa1180 · 12-29-2003, 01:03 PM

I would like VMWare or Win4Lin, Bitdefender, and some others.... mainly VMWare for right now

cybrjackle · 12-29-2003, 03:50 PM

VMware isn't FREE, you can install it on any Linux as long as you BUY it from vmware.com

Here is another Tutorial on it.

http://www.madpenguin.org/Article162.html

jaa1180 · 12-29-2003, 03:53 PM

oh darn... I comes with Mandrake supposedly. According to there website you can have Win4Lin and/or VMWare...
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/92/comparison

jaa1180 · 12-29-2003, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaa1180
oh darn... I comes with Mandrake supposedly. According to there website you can have Win4Lin and/or VMWare...
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/92/comparison

That should be IT comes with......

cybrjackle · 12-29-2003, 04:09 PM

Yes, but I do believe it is an old version, check the version number. And you are paying for it.

jaa1180 · 12-29-2003, 04:25 PM

Well.... that just stinks. Pay $65 for Drake and then $100 for VMware? I don't think so. It is hard to install packages on Slack?

synaptical · 12-29-2003, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaa1180
Well.... that just stinks. Pay $65 for Drake and then $100 for VMware? I don't think so. It is hard to install packages on Slack?

no, it's incredibly easy. you can installpkg, use pkgtool, use one of the download/installers like swaret or slapt-get, install yourself from source, use rpm2tgz then install, etc. it's easier than mandrake/rh imo - the dependency problems just never seem to be there in slack.