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Old 01-01-2015, 05:52 PM   #31
metaschima
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qweasd View Post
And "no anonymity on the internet"... May be you are trying to simplify, but in this case we shouldn't. Of course there is a near-perfect anonymity, but like you yourself say, Tor alone probably won't buy it. Some things (like secrets) cannot be uttered anonymously because of their content, but most things can. Make sure your software is free, leave behind anything tracking location, spoof the IP, put on a hoodie, go to Starbucks or McDonalds, minimize camera exposure the whole time, use Tor, do something that does not identify you by content alone, leave right away.
Don't forget to spoof your wifi MAC, and you are likely to be caught on camera especially if you go there more than once. Not to mention that they expect this and these open wifis are heavily monitored for such use. Not only that but open wifi is not secure and MITM attacks are likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T3slider View Post
I selectively use tor only for activities that can be anonymous -- nothing personal, linking any identity (real or online) to tor usage, for example -- but I don't use tor for anything nefarious. I know too much to consider tor or any other anonymity solution to be sound enough to protect illegal activity; if I wanted to commit such acts (which obviously I don't), I don't believe it can be done well. I mainly use tor as an anonymous proxy more to prevent the site owner from tracking my activity than maintaining true anonymity across the internet.
Your stance on Tor isn't exactly clear. You seem to use it, sure for nothing nefarious, but you don't consider it secure. So then why use it ? Why be associated with the other nefarious people that use Tor ? You can prevent sites from tracking you in many other ways. I'm not sure how to interpret your statements, that's why I would prefer you stop quoting me and simply state your opinion clearly. My opinion is that Tor doesn't give you anonymity (which does not exist on the internet anyway), but instead it draws attention to you and associates you with the nefarious.

Privacy is different from anonymity and the former should be preferred. It is a different POV than anonymity. I can understand the nothing to hide argument with anonymity, I mean why hide ? Privacy is different, you don't want ad companies and sites tracking you and feeding you targeted ads or selling your info or giving you custom search results based on what they thing you wanna see. Privacy is a worthy goal, Anonymity is not.
 
Old 01-01-2015, 08:08 PM   #32
T3slider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
Your stance on Tor isn't exactly clear. You seem to use it, sure for nothing nefarious, but you don't consider it secure. So then why use it ? Why be associated with the other nefarious people that use Tor ?
This is like saying 'Why be a Muslim if you don't want to be associated with terrorists?' Tor has some benefits in certain situations and can be used for perfectly innocent activities. If the government automatically associates me with criminal activity simply for using tor (which they certainly do according to news reports), that is their problem. I had a stance similar to yours regarding ixquick/DuckDuckGo -- I figured, since they were primarily designed for people that are seeking security, they may very well be more heavily targeted (or perhaps honeypots themselves). Then PRISM happened and Google was shown to be heavily targeted, so my opinion changed -- ixquick/DuckDuckGo/etc. may be bigger targets for niche activity, but if they offer better security than Google, I may as well use them since Google is being specifically targeted as it is. Even if they lie about protecting user anonymity, I am certainly no worse off than with Google. (On an unfortunate side-note, those search engines suck so I mostly just use Google anyway, but my point stands.) Similarly, it has been shown that internet connectivity as a whole is already being monitored; if tor can be useful to mask even some of that, when I'm already being targeted just for using the internet, then at least that's something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
You can prevent sites from tracking you in many other ways.
And I do. As I said, I use tor mainly to prevent a small selection of sites from obtaining my IP, not for hiding from the government. I can be pretty confident that those sites will not have the resources to identify me (though the government might, but I'm not hiding from them). A regular anonymous proxy would accomplish the same thing but anonymous proxies are hard to come by and a malicious anonymous proxy is much easier to design than a malicious tor network.
Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
I'm not sure how to interpret your statements, that's why I would prefer you stop quoting me and simply state your opinion clearly.
I quote merely to structure my arguments, not to be argumentative. See here for the long story. I don't use tor in the same way now that I did then (and I would recommend sticking to the TorBundle if you do use tor), but some of it is still relevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by metaschima View Post
Privacy is different from anonymity and the former should be preferred. It is a different POV than anonymity. I can understand the nothing to hide argument with anonymity, I mean why hide ? Privacy is different, you don't want ad companies and sites tracking you and feeding you targeted ads or selling your info or giving you custom search results based on what they thing you wanna see. Privacy is a worthy goal, Anonymity is not.
I use Ghostery, disable JavaScript, and use RequestPolicy (in addition to other things) on my regular non-tor connection. I am already pretty safe from advertisers. But ultimately, sometimes I just don't want certain sites to have my IP address if I don't trust them. And further, sometimes I just don't like the 1984 vibe.
 
Old 01-01-2015, 10:35 PM   #33
metaschima
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Originally Posted by T3slider View Post
I quote merely to structure my arguments, not to be argumentative. See here for the long story. I don't use tor in the same way now that I did then (and I would recommend sticking to the TorBundle if you do use tor), but some of it is still relevant.
That's actually a good thread even tho it is a few years old.

People certainly should know how Tor works and know exactly how to use it properly before using it. If I had to use it I would do so only with specific purpose, for a limited time, and I would take every precaution possible. Disable all plugins, use the bundle like the devs recommend, and most of all don't believe that you are really anonymous, so don't do anything nefarious and expect no consequences, because you may be wrong.
 
Old 01-02-2015, 09:28 AM   #34
Haythem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T3slider View Post
See here for the long story. I don't use tor in the same way now that I did then (and I would recommend sticking to the TorBundle if you do use tor), but some of it is still relevant.
That's really a good thread thanks for posting link!
 
Old 02-02-2015, 09:10 PM   #35
rcorkum
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for me its openvpn with tor bundle through it if i really want to change things up otherwise its just openvpn.
 
  


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