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Old 01-28-2010, 11:19 AM   #16
gargamel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damgar View Post
I think I might get very bored with the same thing for 2 years, let alone 5.

On a different note, I'm new to linux, just since september past, and then newer still maybe 2 months with Slackware. Do these types of things pop up in the OSS world frequently?
Yes, but not only in the OSS world, but generally in the software world, including commercial stuff. All big software vendors have communities for their products, and as soon as the plan for an extension becomes evident to the community the same discussion starts.

The difference is: In the OSS world, things are disclosed from the beginning, and can be influenced by communities according to their real needs, independently of some vendor's business model.

gargamel
 
Old 03-31-2010, 06:04 PM   #17
modprob
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After a long reading on the subject, i have a question for slackers familiar with open source development model.

If someone decides to write a kauth backend that is more suitable to Unix/Slackware, how hard will it be to get it upstreamed ?
 
Old 03-31-2010, 06:26 PM   #18
sahko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modprob View Post
After a long reading on the subject, i have a question for slackers familiar with open source development model.

If someone decides to write a kauth backend that is more suitable to Unix/Slackware, how hard will it be to get it upstreamed ?
Its already been done but it seems quite difficult to get upstream to care. See http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post3918927
 
Old 03-31-2010, 06:42 PM   #19
astrogeek
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My thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by modprob View Post
After a long reading on the subject, i have a question for slackers familiar with open source development model.

If someone decides to write a kauth backend that is more suitable to Unix/Slackware, how hard will it be to get it upstreamed ?
First let me plainly state that I am neither authoritative nor actually much interested, but I would probably be one to whine if it broke my Slackware box - so from that perspective, my 2cents...

As far as I understand the way Slackware development works (and I am mostly happy with it), getting a new kauth 'upstreamed' would be entirely a matter of it's being upstreamed in KDE, not Slackware.

Slackware includes all project code with the absolute minimum of patching and distro specific modification or configuration added. That is a major strength of Slackware. Consequently a 'new kauth' would likely only enter Slackware via it's inclusion within KDE.

As far as user acceptance... I have personally stopped using anything KDE because of the disaster which was early KDE 4. It was included in Slackware, mostly because it had to be at the time IMHO, but it was not ready (also IMHO) and was just plain lousy (also IMHO) and is now irrelevant to my use as a result. I think the most basic forms of Linux/Unix user and process authentication are both sufficient and complete for their purposes if used well. Authentication applications for external (i.e. internet) purposes is not something I would ever turn over to something like kauth... and polkit... it is not necessary or appropriate IMHO (no flames please). These should remain purely optional add-on applications that a user can install - or not - without breaking his "Unix"!

So my off-the-cuff response is that upstream is not a Slackware issue. Linux/Unix user acceptance - for my part, please keep it out of my yard! If it works well and is among my options I may consider it at some time, but please never try to make it something my Linux/Unix has to depend on!

That said - good luck!
 
Old 03-31-2010, 07:09 PM   #20
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Astrogeek, there seems to be some misunderstanding. I was actually talking about getting it upstreamed in KDE.
 
Old 03-31-2010, 07:15 PM   #21
modprob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahko View Post
Its already been done but it seems quite difficult to get upstream to care. See http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post3918927
Isn't the Slackware team against policyKit altogether ?

Anyway, i'm a software engineer and an avid Slackware user; I thought i could help by becoming a KDE developer to keep policyKit and PAM away from my favorite distro.

Last edited by modprob; 03-31-2010 at 07:17 PM. Reason: clarification
 
Old 03-31-2010, 07:33 PM   #22
astrogeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modprob View Post
I thought i could help by becoming a KDE developer to keep policyKit and PAM away from my favorite distro.
In that case you can have my vote!
 
Old 04-01-2010, 06:18 AM   #23
Alien Bob
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I doubt that it will be possible to keep policukit out of Slackware. There is no need to make any changes to KDE as long we we can make PolicyKit accept a shadow backend so that we can forget about PAM. That is exactly the path I took as described in my post http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post3918927

I have asked the polkit-1 developer (polkit-1 is the name of the incompatible successor to the deprecated PolicyKit) to review and apply the patch which PiterPUNK, rworkman and NaCl created. The patch works, as you can see below:

New KDE 4.4.2 packages with polkit-1/ConsoleKit support can be obtained through http://alien.slackbook.org/blog/kde-...ing-policykit/

Eric
 
Old 04-01-2010, 09:02 AM   #24
Lufbery
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This is an exceptionally interesting thread.

Can someone help me understand the problems with PAM that would make it undesirable?
 
Old 05-10-2010, 01:43 AM   #25
boler
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BUMP the last question! So what is wrong with PAM? Why don't we want it in Slackware?

Seems like nobody is willing / able to answer it.

Thanks,
 
Old 05-10-2010, 02:31 AM   #26
samac
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Quote:
So what is wrong with PAM? Why don't we want it in Slackware?
This is an un-helpful and possibly wrong answer, but I would suspect it is because PV doesn't want to include it.

samac
 
Old 05-10-2010, 03:09 AM   #27
Didier Spaier
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<parnoia>Just because Pat don't want me to use my Lenovo ThinkPad T61's fingerprint reader</paranoia>

More seriously, see here

Last edited by Didier Spaier; 05-10-2010 at 03:19 AM.
 
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:16 AM   #28
boler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didier Spaier View Post
<parnoia>Just because Pat don't want me to use my Lenovo ThinkPad T61's fingerprint reader</paranoia>

More seriously, see here
So he doesn't like PAM. Although that was from way back in the 9.1 changelog... I guess he still doesn't like it?

This is what you get from the 'Benevolent Dictatorship' development model associated with Slackware (as says Eric Hameleers).

Of course it's PV's right to do it that way! I'm not going to argue with it. It's just interesting to know what the reasoning behind decisions are.
 
Old 05-11-2010, 07:38 AM   #29
GazL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boler View Post
This is what you get from the 'Benevolent Dictatorship' development model associated with Slackware (as says Eric Hameleers).
A committee based model could have also come to the same conclusion. Whether the added features of PAM are worth the additional complexity it introduces is a judgement call. Obviously, your own personal judgement will depend very much on whether you have a use for those additional features or not.

PAM is clearly not as big a security risk as it once was as it's now had time for bugs to be found and it's matured since that decision was taken, but it's still true that it's more complex than the shadow suite.
 
Old 05-11-2010, 11:49 AM   #30
acummings
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Quote:
<snip> to do with that PAM is more complex than the shadow suite
And that a principle or otherwise a part of the particular "way" of Slackware is that Slackware utilizes the KISS principle, does it not.

dauntless

The above is my one word description of Slackware.

But if I'm allowed even more words to describe, then comes:

stability, security, **simplicity** , Slackware absolutely freakin does not resist or fight **my customization** -- just make Slackware into what I want it to be

"It's Slackware, **do** what you want."

Thank you Slackware developers and congratulations and keep on steering the direction that future OSS development will take.

I'm interested to help support Slackware regards said steering. I can write. Please let me know if I can help in any way.

Sometimes *others out and about out there* just need (as the future may tell) some dauntless steering or direction regards future pathways to be taken.

Long Haul
Alan.
 
  


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