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Old 06-09-2019, 11:47 AM   #16
ceh383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyCyborg View Post
I am not a specialist on Debian, but about this aspect, I doubt that the latest Debian release behave different than the today Slackware.
One would think they would react the same, but here 1 works the other doesn't, another reason to look at documentation.

As suggested, I am installing Slackware 14.2, this time without the /usr partition. We'll see how it goes. If this goes well I'll update to current.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 11:50 AM   #17
LuckyCyborg
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And speaking about customizing the initrd, I think there's a huge lack on the infrastructure of initrd used by Slackware: the hooks for it.

Or at least, a way to merge a small custom script at the near end of "/boot/initrd-tree/init"

The single way I found today, even on slackware-current, to make my customization to survive to a clean generation of the initrd, is to modify this "/init" script within "/usr/share/mkinitrd/initrd-tree.tar.gz" then to careful watch if an upgrade of package will overide it or not.

Code:
...
else
  echo
  echo "RESCUE mode"
  echo
  echo "        You can try to fix or rescue your system now. If you want"
  echo "        to boot into your fixed system, mount your root filesystem"
  echo "        read-only under /mnt:"
  echo
  echo "            # mount -o ro -t filesystem root_device /mnt"
  echo
  echo "        Type 'exit' when things are done."
  echo
  /bin/sh
fi

##########################################################
# HERE YOU CAN RUN CUSTOM MOUNTING OR WHATEVER
##########################################################

# Need to make sure OPTIONS+="db_persist" exists for all dm devices
# That should be handled in /sbin/mkinitrd now
/sbin/udevadm info --cleanup-db
/sbin/udevadm control --exit

unset ERR
mount -o move /proc /mnt/proc
mount -o move /sys /mnt/sys
mount -o move /run /mnt/run

[ "$DEVTMPFS" = "1" ] && mount -o move /dev /mnt/dev
echo "${INITRD}:  exiting"
exec switch_root /mnt $INIT $RUNLEVEL

Last edited by LuckyCyborg; 06-09-2019 at 11:58 AM.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 11:58 AM   #18
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
A fresh install for something like this would totally be the way to go.
Agreed. A clean install of Slackware64-current would be an easier path to success. A standard partition scheme would work well, something like swap, /, /home.
I would back up your data first and do a clean install with Eric's -current ISO.

http://bear.alienbase.nl/mirrors/sla...4-current-iso/
 
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:28 PM   #19
ceh383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitest View Post
Agreed. A clean install of Slackware64-current would be an easier path to success. A standard partition scheme would work well, something like swap, /, /home.
I would back up your data first and do a clean install with Eric's -current ISO.

http://bear.alienbase.nl/mirrors/sla...4-current-iso/
To be clear, all attempts were clean installs. All data was backed up prior to the first attempt.
I did in fact try to download Eric's current ISO, but it was painfully slow, so I went with one from a mirror.

I just installed 14.2, this time without the /usr partition, it worked, no errors and it booted up as it should. So all is good.

I still see some sites recommending a /usr partition, go figure. It worked in the past, but times change.

Thank you @GazL for the suggestion!

Now I guess I get to start compiling/installing software.

Thanks all for the help.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 01:22 PM   #20
enorbet
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While some will argue that there is some value in employing a separate partition for "/home" and there certainly are even better arguments for a separate "/boot" partition, there is very little value in separating "/usr" from "/" anymore (largely due to large, fast, cheap hard drive availability) especially on SOHO Desktop systems. It is simply more trouble than it is worth as far as I can tell.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 02:06 PM   #21
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
While some will argue that there is some value in employing a separate partition for "/home" and there certainly are even better arguments for a separate "/boot" partition, there is very little value in separating "/usr" from "/" anymore (largely due to large, fast, cheap hard drive availability) especially on SOHO Desktop systems.
Indeed. I like having a /home partition mounted on its own. It makes upgrading to a new version of Slackware dead simple; you can keep your data intact. During a new installation of Slackware you mount /home, but, don't format it.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 03:17 PM   #22
GazL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
Thank you @GazL for the suggestion!
You're welcome. I don't have any documentation to point at but if you do a google search for 'udev' and 'separate /usr' plenty of stuff shows up, though much of it is systemd related. To be fair, slackware does a pretty good job of keeping the required stuff in /lib rather than /usr, but even so I think it's fair to characterise the idea of a separate /usr as problematic going forward.

For what it's worth I run with separate /, /home, /var and /tmp(which I put on tmpfs).

One issue I've encountered with my layout is that a separate /var causes issues with the alsactl restore udev rule as /var/lib/alsa/asound.state isn't available when the udev rule runs, so I have to work around that one, but it's a small matter.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 03:54 PM   #23
ceh383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GazL View Post
You're welcome. I don't have any documentation to point at but if you do a google search for 'udev' and 'separate /usr' plenty of stuff shows up, though much of it is systemd related. To be fair, slackware does a pretty good job of keeping the required stuff in /lib rather than /usr, but even so I think it's fair to characterise the idea of a separate /usr as problematic going forward.

For what it's worth I run with separate /, /home, /var and /tmp(which I put on tmpfs).

One issue I've encountered with my layout is that a separate /var causes issues with the alsactl restore udev rule as /var/lib/alsa/asound.state isn't available when the udev rule runs, so I have to work around that one, but it's a small matter.
Yeah, I did do a search and most everything was related to "systemd", and that is probably the genesis of the problem.
But what I fail to understand, is why Debian would install and run with the separate /usr. One would think the results would be the same as Debian is also infected with "systemd".
 
Old 06-09-2019, 05:15 PM   #24
ZhaoLin1457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
But what I fail to understand, is why Debian would install and run with the separate /usr.
I believe that what Debian do, is just about a "smarter" initrd or its "smarter" generation.

Probably on the generation stage, they parse somehow the mounted partitions, then the structure is reconstructed by initrd before going to the real system.

Anyway, looking into https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/initramfs-tools their tools are way more complex than the ones used by Slackware. Then I suppose them being also more powerful.

Last edited by ZhaoLin1457; 06-09-2019 at 05:22 PM.
 
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Old 06-09-2019, 07:50 PM   #25
sombragris
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Just to get this cleared up, when trying to upgrade your 13.37 setup did you follow UPGRADE.TXT and CHANGES_AND_HINTS.TXT, right? I'm assuming you did, but I just ask to be sure...
 
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Old 06-09-2019, 08:26 PM   #26
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhaoLin1457 View Post
I believe that what Debian do, is just about a "smarter" initrd or its "smarter" generation.

Probably on the generation stage, they parse somehow the mounted partitions, then the structure is reconstructed by initrd before going to the real system.

Anyway, looking into https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/initramfs-tools their tools are way more complex than the ones used by Slackware. Then I suppose them being also more powerful.
It can be argued that self-driving cars are "smarter and more complex" than a stick shift Jaguar F-Type or a Porsche 911 but which would you rather take a ride in or more to the point, which would you rather drive? It can also be postulated that as we accept more and more things that "do everything for you" at some point we will be able to do absolutely nothing but require something to do it for us. There is a substantial price to pay for mere convenience. For those of us who demand control and knowing exactly what went wrong if and when something fails to do what we desire and then how to fix it, thankfully, there is Slackware. Avoiding learning curves results in ignorance and powerlessness. No thanks.
 
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:11 PM   #27
ceh383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sombragris View Post
Just to get this cleared up, when trying to upgrade your 13.37 setup did you follow UPGRADE.TXT and CHANGES_AND_HINTS.TXT, right? I'm assuming you did, but I just ask to be sure...
No, I formatted the existing partitions and attempted a clean install...After backing up all my data of course.
What I found out is Slackware 14.2/current doesn't like a separate /usr partition, 13.37 had no issue with it at all.
It looks like it has to do with "systemd", I now have more reading/learning to do.

After deleting the /usr partition (added the space to /) 14.2 installed without issue, boots and runs as it should.

I'm now at the stage where I can compile/install software and configure the system to my liking.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 11:23 PM   #28
ehartman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
It looks like it has to do with "systemd", I now have more reading/learning to do.
No, Slackware does NOT use systemd, in any release.
It has to do that some utils need shared libraries and terminal info files that are in /usr/lib
Pat fixed that in -current by including those libraries in the aaa_elflibs (and adding an extra aaa_terminfo) package too, but 14.2 still needs /usr to be available during install and/or boot up.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 11:44 PM   #29
ceh383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehartman View Post
No, Slackware does NOT use systemd, in any release.
It has to do that some utils need shared libraries and terminal info files that are in /usr/lib
Pat fixed that in -current by including those libraries in the aaa_elflibs (and adding an extra aaa_terminfo) package too, but 14.2 still needs /usr to be available during install and/or boot up.
Ok, I'll take your word for it.

But, I am puzzled as to why I got the exact same errors when trying to install -current as I did with 14.2 with the /usr partition.

Please enlighten me.
 
Old 06-10-2019, 12:47 AM   #30
ehartman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
But, I am puzzled as to why I got the exact same errors when trying to install -current as I did with 14.2 with the /usr partition.
I never tried to install -current from scratch, so I wouldn't really know, but maybe the installer, being "ncurses" compiled, still needs /usr/lib/terminfo ??
 
  


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