Got Slack 13 and finished installing it yesterday. Ran into trouble almost immediately, not sure if this is a slack problem or X problem or firefox problem or hardware problem.

Anyways, the symptoms are as follows - the system 'hangs/freezes' after roughly 30 minutes of usage ... its weird, the system doesnt really hang/freeze, I can still move the mouse around as well as toggle num-lock, BUT nothing else works, cant click on anything, cant switch to console, cant exit X, nothing! No ctrl+alt+delete, need to hit the reset button and reboot!

First I thought it was KDE4 being a resource hog, so I turned off all the eye-candy, system was noticeably more responsive, but after a while, same thing happened!

Then I switched to xfce, thought maybe that would help, same thing again. Finally, switched to fluxbox, and you guessed it, same thing!

During all instances, the freeze happened roughly between 30 mins to an hour after I started X. During all instances, I had firefox running, with multiple tabs open. During all instances, I also had a console emulator running, different ones each time. No compiling, nothing major running, just firefox and the console emu. I was basically reading apache and php documentation, trying to get a server setup, so the only thing on the console was text-editors for the various config files, and only tabs in firefox were manuals, no pdf, no flash, no java, nothing intensive!

A friend of mine suggested that this might be a firefox problem, seems he had a similar experience on ubuntu once, which disappeared when he updated firefox. But, as far as I can tell, Slack13's firefox is the latest version!

Also, I used ext4 for the install, if thats pertinent. Cant think of anything else relevant right now.

System is a 2.4GHz Pentium D (I THINK 1.2GHz X 2), on an Intel 845 chipset mobo, with the onboard graphics. 768MB RAM. Swap is enabled, I had roughly about 230MB of RAM free when I checked, some 10 minutes before the freeze happened.

Any thoughts on what might be causing this?

Oh yea, the most obvious thing to do seems to be to try using a different browser and seeing if this still occurs! I did not have enough time to try that today, and will be trying it tomorrow, and will come back here to post details as and when I do this. I just jumped the gun and posted right now to see if perhaps anybody had actually seen this happening and knew what was causing it.

You seem to have an intel graphical chipset. Intel chipsets are known to cause some trouble with the Xorg version used in Slackware 13.0. Refer to file CHANGES_AND_HINTS.TXT:

So it's recommended in case you have problems (and you have problems) to install an alternative intel driver among those available in the /extra/xf86-video-intel-alternate/ directory.

Interestingly enough, I had actually just installed 12.2 a few weeks ago, and was having difficulty with X. I finally realised it was the intel graphics that was the problem. Basically, once I started X, there was no way for me to shutdown X or switch to a console, it would just display a blank screen (NOT a screen that was switched off, but blank, meaning the backlight or whatever in a CRT, was still firing). I started looking for a solution and found out that Slack 13 had been released, which had 'some sort of improved xorg; no xorg.conf file required', didnt bother reading up on it, just downloaded it, and it WORKED, out of the box! From the Changes and hints.txt file, it seems that they have themselves replaced the standard i810 graphics driver with one of the alternates. Perhaps thats why the console switching started working again.

But yes, I guess this is also something I need to figure out tomorrow, when i get back to the slack machine. Will get back here with the results as soon as Im done. Thanks for the reply.

When Im on the linux box, I dont have access to my windows system, and vice versa ... which is making life quite difficult for me right now ... Was on the slack machine, first tried fluxbox and konqueror, lasted less than 10 minutes. Restart, then went to the extras folder on the slack dvd, had no idea what to install, just used installpkg xf86.... the package was installed. Of course, I had no clue whether it also meant the default driver had been changed or not, so restarted and ran fluxbox again, firefox, to google and see what I ought be doing to 'replace the default driver', basically to figure out how to use the packages in the /extra folder! Less than 5 minutes it lasted!!!

The main intention for me to setup slack on that old machine was to get a server running, a testbed for something ... I needed to get Apache, MySQL and php running on it ... Using the console, I FINALLY managed to get all of those working (never dabbled with any othe aforementioned stuff before!) So, finally opened KDE again, and the Dolphin file manager to access a shared folder on another machine, less than 2 minutes it lasted!!!

Meaning, I still dont have any idea if its the driver, or how to change/test the alternate drivers given! Im not a total n00b, but Im no expert either, and its been a few years since I was on Linux, so quite rusty! I found using lynx to search for more instructions to be too painful, so back on my windows machine now, search here, then experiment again with slack morrow!

Will be googling now, but a few pointers on how to go about using the alternate drivers provided would help.

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Off-topic

Also, just wondering, why on earth do the install scripts NOT install apache + php 'right'? I mean, ok, to some extent I can understand the apache conf file disabling php by default, but then I also found out that the path to which the modules actually got installed were different from the path specified in the default conf files, for both apache as well as php!!! Meaning, it was not just a simple matter of uncommenting lines!!! Seems to me to be quite pointless to 'automate' installation of apache/php/mysql during the Slackware installation, only to have to 're-configure' fundamentals out of the box!!! The distro installer will install said packages in the same folders EVERY SINGLE TIME!!! So, why not also have a set of conf files that are updated?! Or alternatively, install to the default folders as mentioned in the conf files to begin with??? Anybody who can shed some light on WHY this happens, please do share!

@ karthikrr,

To try out one of the other Intel drivers on your system, you'd want to use pkgtool to upgrade your currently installed Intel driver, with one of the other selections.

Currently, in the /extra folder on my Slack13 DVD (which is actually on disk, not DVD, as I haven't yet got the DVD) I see about a half-dozen different xf86-video-intel-x.x.x driver versions. Here's an example of how to change from one to another:

Let's say I am using xf86-video-intel-2.5.1-x86_64-1 then to change to the next version, I'd enter the /extra folder and do:
The 'percent' symbol goes in between the old and new filenames, with no white-space.

Hope that helps
Sasha

Thanks for the reply ... the README just said to use installpkg, so I did that! Did not tell me much except to say that the package was installed successfully! I was HOPING that meant it had automatically 'upgraded' my existing driver!

Will try the upgradepkg route morrow when Im back in front of that machine, BUT, what do I use to figure out WHAT the current driver is called??? lspci or some such equivalent? Its REALLY been quite a while since I did this stuff, so excuse the n00bness!

Also, have been trying to google for this info, but absolutely nothing turning up ... WHAT are the different versions provided in that folder? I mean, whats the difference between 2.5 - 2.8? All google does is display pages and pages and pages all displaying the same thing, the changelog!!! Would be nice to know what the four versions provided actually are!

Lastly, if I remember right, there was a way to 'explode' a .tgz pkg and go thru its contents ... How does one do that for the new .txz?

You need to install one package at the time. Each installation will replace the intel driver. Run the following commands:

removepkg will remove the installed driver
installkg will install a new one (version 2.5.1 in my example).

You need to run these commands when you're in console mode (i.e. Xorg is not running).

Also make sure that the intel driver is selected in your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file. If you're not sure, just post the content of this file.

If there is no such file, then it's preferable to create one using instructions in the Slackware-HOWTO:

Well, you *can* just keep installing one driver ontop of the last, but it isn't the right way to do things and may lead to weirdness.
Just type "pkgtool" and select "View" and it will show you all the installed packages. Scroll down to the "x" section and have a look.
Check the ChangeLog, as well as the thread in the Slackware Forum called something like "[testing request] Intel video driver (yes again!!!)" to follow the various driver changes and testing results.
I don't know exactly what the differences are from one to the next.
I haven't tried it, but the "explodepkg" command should do it. Possibly piping the explodepkg command into | less will help too. I've never used explodepkg.

Depending on what file manager you use, you *might* be able to view the contents of a Slackware (driver) package just by clicking on it in the file manager, but I'm not sure what, if any, of the file managers have been updated to support the newest compression format.


NOTE: the method gegechris gives, doing remove and then install, effectively accomplishes the same thing as 'upgradepkg'

Sasha

thanks Chris, I did installpkg, BUT I did not do removepkg first! In anycase, Im PRETTY sure I do not have an xorg.conf on this machine, assuming of course that Slack 13 does not create a file 'for compatibility'! Will try doing an xorg setup morrow, BUT a bunch of posts I read suggest that having an xorg.conf with the new Slack could cause problems?

In the meantime, if I may approach this problem from another angle - Since the mouse still works and the numlock still works, it indicates that the system has not frozen in the traditional DOS sense! BUT, since none of the keystrokes seem to have any effect, it suggests to me that either the kernel is totally dead and unable to receive ANY input, or its just gotten into some major loop or something, UNABLE to process received inputs! Im more than sure there MUST be some log file out there that I can check to see what happens in the moments just before the crash and just after! Any thoughts?

Sasha, all info duly noted! Especially the bit about the 'right way to do it' I cannot get back with results right off, hopefully by this time morrow!

Will also check the forums for the thread you mention!

Since the numlock lights up, and the mouse works, that indicates that the kernel is not dead.

It does sound like the DE (Desktop Environment) is having some trouble though, either directly, or because X is screwed up, both of which could be attributable to the video driver.

All the logs are in /var/log but whether any of them will (by default) tell you anything about what's happening, I'm unsure.

Particularly relevant would be /var/log/messages and /var/log/kernel and /var/log/xorg.0.log for starters.

Sasha

Not sure what you mean here. I just uncommented the "PHP" bit and setup mysql and everything "just worked".

Sasha, will take a look see at the logs and get back morrow ... Also laid my hands on an old nvidia card, will try inserting that, JUST to make sure that the problem IS actually Intel ...

Eddy, are you talking about Slack 13??? Coz with mine, uncommenting the php bit did not work ... It kept displaying the source code, essentially reading it as though it was a text file!!! A little bit more digging made me realise that the libphp5 module was NOT in the folder specified in the conf file!!! Actually, the path in the conf file led me to an absolutely empty folder!!! Had to dig around in the httpd.conf, mod_php.conf and the php.ini files to establish all the files and options required, and then find the php module and move it to the right folders to finally get php working!!! I barely managed to check that php was working, before the damn thing froze on me yet again, BUT I did manage to verify that phpMyAdmin worked!!! Just need a working X now to start experimenting!

I have ZERO web-server/programming knowledge, so literally just pushing buttons and seeing what happens right now! Lotsa people told me that to get started with webserver, I was better off with Ubuntu! I installed Ubuntu and realised that it presumed to be my mother!!! Mainly talking about its obstinate need to REFUSE to allow me to use root access!!! This is just a testbed for me, I WANT to use root on it and mess up as many times as I can! Which is why I scrapped ubuntu two days after I installed it and ran right back to Slack which I USED to use many years ago!!! And while I still prefer the 'Slack way' of doing things, Im just wondering WHY Slack's install scripts don't 'work out of the box' ... Age old question, but until Slack 13, Im quite sure that not a single version of slack supported mouse-scrolling without adding the ZAxis Mapping line into Xorg!!! When you know that EVERY single person out there SCROLLS, it just didnt make sense to me that Pat and his team didnt see it fit to make sure that ZAxis Mapping was already enabled! Not putting down Slack here, but just wondering why there isn't a team that takes care of such minor details, which if done, would GREATLY enhance Slack's accessibility to the 'layman'!

I'll venture my two cents on that:

Since the new Xorg hopes/presumes to NOT require an xorg.conf file for many people, then putting in the ZaxisMapping option would REQUIRE that an xorg.conf be present, albeit not a very complete one; this might lead to more issues than it actually solves

Plus, let's say a person wants to use Slack as a server, with no desktop. There's a reasonable chance that there may be no mouse connected to it, and further, maybe it doesn't have a monitor or keyboard connected either so all this becomes moot.

As for making Slack more accessible to the layman -- it isn't really intended to be a layman's operating system. That's not to say that it's impossibly difficult to get working, even for an inexperienced Slacker -- because it isn't -- but it DOES presume that you are able and willing to read the more-than-adequate documentation that is always included with it, and available all over the place.

Again, just my opinion on those matters; other opinions may vary

Sasha

As for your FIRST point, about the xorg, Im NOT talking about the NEW slack ... which supports Scrolling out of the box, without xorg, without any ZAXis line! But, all the way upto 12.2, it DID use xorg, and you always needed to add ZAxis!

As for the rest, PURELY academic discussion, I repeat, PURELY academic disucssion, but ...

1) Why bother to setup GPM and ask if you want GPM to run on startup? (since there is a reasonable chance there will be no mouse/keyboard/display hooked up? (ok ok, dont bother telling me that one might need to copy paste some long paths in the CLI etc etc etc ... Im aware of that, but the point is that adding that single ZAxis line is almost certainly much easier to do than setting up and running GPM)

2) Adding a single line to the install scripts will enable mouse scrolling, it wont take more than 10 seconds to make that change. MAKING that change has the effect of

a) Making the distro THAT much more accessible to the 'layman'
b) Irrespective of your level of expertise, enhances functionality by quite a bit, while NOT 'costing' anything in terms of time spent or resources used to make that change!
c) If there are 1,000 people installing Slackware who INTEND to use the GUI, each and every one of them spends SOME amount of time searching the internet for an answer - from a devil's advocate's perspective, imagine the amount of TIME, bandwidth and processing power saved if these people did NOT have to google to enable scrolling?

3) I would like to add - if all that you said is a reasonable hypothesis, then WHY does Slack 13 support scrolling out of the box? BUT, because I DO have a faint idea how these things work, I am going to go out on a limb and venture that the reason Slack 13 works out of the box is because the 'new way of doing things', using HAL to take care of devices brought this along with it as a 'side effect'. Meaning, nobody intentionally went out to enable scrolling out of the box, it just happened on account of other changes made!

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Again, debating PURELY for academic reasons ... NOT Slackware bashing or ANY such thing!!! Truth betold, I love Slack and actually LEARNT a bit about Linux PRIMARILY because the first time I installed Slack (was either one of the 8 versions, or 9.1, dont even remember anymore!), I had to google to figure out how the hell to get the Mouse Scrolling!!! That tiny little exercise led me to understand better how the system worked, it led me to understand on an 'empirical level', how to go about administering a Linux system! I LOVE the CLI and ... pundits will tell me Im a moron, but back when I used Linux on a day to day basis, I had an obsessive need to get the latest kernel and keep recompiling and updating my system!!! Just coz it let me poke around where the 'layman' never ought to!

BUT that said
1) I refuse to accept 'enables learning Linux' as a reason to NOT incorporate scrolling out of the box
2) With a FEW minor 'automations', Slackware can actually become a fantastic 'layperson Linux'!
3) Even if you DO know your way around the system, in my own case right now, ALL I needed was to setup a LAMP server ... But going Slack meant I had to do a bunch of housekeeping BEFORE I got to the task at hand ... Not everybody has the time to do this! Which is why Im bothering the good people here with silly things that could easily have been 'looked up'! Essentially, if I could have Ubuntu's 'ease' with Slackware's flexibility, THAT would be my ideal Linux distro! Easier to bridge the gap with Slack, than get Ubuntu to incorporate Slack's flexibility!

Wow, Im wayyyyyyyyyyy off-topic! And Sasha is a mod, right? Should I be scared?

Btw, since Im ALREADY off-topic, can anybody point me to a good HOW-TO on 'building a slackware distro'? Making install scripts with the existing Slackware 13.0 tree, I mean? If its not too complicated, perhaps I can try to work on some 'housekeeping scripts' to help out! My ideal scenario would be to EDIT the scripts used in the current Slackware installer, rather than do a LFS thing!