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Old 05-30-2014, 12:31 AM   #46
ReaperX7
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So ntpd and time aren't affected, but it's not FUD on any level that hearing news anything has been "added" to systemd, never has a positive ring to it.

Something new added to the Linux kernel always welcomed. Something added to Xfce, again good news. Something added to ZFS regardless of OS, again good.

...but systemd... Somehow always generates a groan and moan.

Last edited by ReaperX7; 05-30-2014 at 12:57 AM.
 
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Old 05-30-2014, 06:23 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatalfrrog View Post
Tobi is the only one actually being resonable re: systemd. The naysayers are comically ignorant and keep spewing the same FUD that was going around a year ago.
Unfortunately there's a lot of ignorance on both sides of the systemd debate. The 'naysayers' don't have a monopoly on that one.

In this case Tobi is right, leaving aside any implementation quality issues, systemd's inclusion of a smtp client makes sense given their stated project goals, and has absolutely no impact on the rest of us at all.
 
Old 05-30-2014, 06:41 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Right.

Now, if you were discussing embedded systems from, oh, the 1980's, then the size of the NTPD server would be a sticking point. (A whole megabyte when even a fully tricked out system might have only 64K.)

But now we are in the 21st century. ntpdate (not statically linked, so this size is too small) is ~95Kb. Any systemd embedded system will have some type of cron, won't it? So just run ntpdate on a cron job and be done with it versus creating a new specialized client.

Somehow I'm not surprised that systemd contains its very own logger. How special.
systemd aims to be a suite of services that make it easy to set up a system from scratch without having to rely on daemons from outside the suite.
Somewhat the same thing like Busybox, but with a different focus. This is not at all about size.
 
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Old 05-30-2014, 01:02 PM   #49
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The problem of dealing with FUD from the pro-systemd camp is they say everything but systemd is deprecated or will be deprecated. All this focus has limited choice to even attempted elimination of choice where-as the anti-systemd camp is saying that there are choices and all this deprecation is FUD and systemd isn't the only choice.
 
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Old 05-30-2014, 02:34 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
The problem of dealing with FUD from the pro-systemd camp is they say everything but systemd is deprecated or will be deprecated. All this focus has limited choice to even attempted elimination of choice where-as the anti-systemd camp is saying that there are choices and all this deprecation is FUD and systemd isn't the only choice.
That is not at all true. Please provide examples. YOU said:

Quote:
So... that means both ntpd and time just got deprecated... at least they're now wholly focused on trying to deprecate the entire GNU operating system outright rather than just bits and pieces of GNU/Linux.
First of all, ntpd is not being implemented in systemd. "just got deprecated" - how is this not FUD? And time? Deprecated? Do you know what deprecated means? Do you know that ifconfig is actually deprecated?

And the entirety of GNU? Come on, Reaper, you don't really think this, do you? Do you have proof that they want to do this? Or is it just FUD?

Last edited by fatalfrrog; 05-31-2014 at 11:40 AM.
 
Old 05-31-2014, 02:16 AM   #51
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First of read where I recanted my statement before you mouth off...

Then go read the websites all surrounding systemd's promotions. Unless you're 100% clueless and can't use Google, I doubt I need to say otherwise, especially where the comparison of ConsoleKit versus systemd-logind or any other part of systemd.
 
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Old 05-31-2014, 06:38 AM   #52
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It would be funny if they start the systemd C compiler
 
Old 05-31-2014, 08:14 AM   #53
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I can't wait for an announcement for systemd-facebookd...
 
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Old 05-31-2014, 11:45 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
First of read where I recanted my statement before you mouth off...

Then go read the websites all surrounding systemd's promotions. Unless you're 100% clueless and can't use Google, I doubt I need to say otherwise, especially where the comparison of ConsoleKit versus systemd-logind or any other part of systemd.
I don't see what's so bad or hard to follow about this ConsoleKit topic.

So you can't provide any examples then? I can't say I'm surprised.
 
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Old 05-31-2014, 05:33 PM   #55
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Since you find the situation easy to follow, perhaps you could tell me if the following is correct:

Lennart Poettering and Jon McCann decide they no longer wish to maintain ConsoleKit.

Rather than inviting others to adopt the project, they pass maintenance of the code to Martin Pitt (of Canonical) on the condition that he rename the project. They then declare the ConsoleKit project "dead".

They don't post their decision on the project's mailing list or otherwise contact those who've been relying upon the project. An announcement of the project being dead was eventually made (but not by the maintainers) on the Gnome mailing list, and apparently Fedora devs were notified as a notice of its demise appears in their Wiki.

No renamed fork of the project is ever announced by Canonical. The project is eventually dropped from Ubuntu, again with no invitation for others to take over maintainership.
 
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Old 05-31-2014, 11:16 PM   #56
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And thusly ConsoleKit joins HAL and others in the giant coffin that is still being filled with projects.
 
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Old 06-01-2014, 12:49 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
And thusly ConsoleKit joins HAL and others in the giant coffin that is still being filled with projects.
These Red Hat pieces disguised as "open source projects" didn't even reach 1.0.0 and with udev they abandoned version numbers altogether and switched to build numbers. I think, the best idea is to ignore the whole Fedora-GNOME-freedesktop-CoreOS pile as the BSDs do.
 
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:48 PM   #58
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Well HAL is salvageable and with some patches still builds correctly. In all, HAL could be effectively revived better than other projects because HALs functionality was only replaced by ConsoleKit and other projects. If BSDs can still use HAL, why can't we?
 
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:16 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
If BSDs can still use HAL, why can't we?
Because we'd need someone to do the job. Do you volunteer for that?
 
Old 06-01-2014, 10:49 PM   #60
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If only I knew C my good man... if only.

We have enough patches to get it buildable... But yes, it needs updates too.

Last edited by ReaperX7; 06-01-2014 at 10:51 PM.
 
  


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