And that threatens the GNU tools in what way? How is improving the ability to run applications sandboxed taking away from GNU?
And what is wrong with the idea in general? Just an example, say that you have to run a proprietary application in your company, let's say Skype. Don't you want to sandbox it properly, of course with the least possible effort?
The FSF has the copyright to all the GNU tools, so they can change the license to a closed one at any given time. What would happen then?
See, this type of arguing is mood and comes even close to FUD. Actually it is FUD, sowing fear, uncertainty and doubt.
Really? I am posting this from a machine that currently has udev 214 installed, so it can't be that hard to extract it and there is no need to run eudev either. Not that there is anything wrong with using eudev, maybe I look into that just for fun.
And again answering with a question: Why would you create a "Linux construction kit" and then make all its components mandatory? What makes you think that Lennart Poettering suddenly thinks: Hey, it is working exactly as it should, now lets destroy its purpose?
Can you please rephrase that, I don't understand that sentence.

There is a fundamental difference between these distros. Unlike Slackware, Arch uses rolling release model, therefore I cannot propose Arch to my boss as a server solution (also, rolling release distro doesn't fit well for development, etc...)
So, yes, I use Arch since 2012, and I must say it's a rock solid disto ... yet I consider it as only a temporary solution.
I like Slackware and I will switch back as soon as systemd becomes part of it, which will happen within couple years.

And cynwulf, I kindly asked you to give me a techlical advice (since you claimed to be a guru in init systems).
But you started to discuss my personal preferences, what distro I should use...

So, who is a troll here?

was good knowing you

Okay. Thanks for your opinion. The Slackware team will decide the developmental pathway of Slackware.

To quote Phillip J. Fry, "See ya' in a thousand years."

Whatever the case is, things are going to get hellaciously ugly soon in the Linux world between users, admins, developers, and distribution maintainers if things continue this course, and it doesn't take a genius to calculate that out.

Kinda glad I took the time and effort to at least get my feet wet with FreeBSD when I had the chance.

indeed ...

Let's just say, if you want systemd-Slackware so badly, and you have as much claimed education and skill, then fork the project and create your own distribution with it. Bart's work should be enough to get you started, so have at it, if you are so needing of it. Otherwise, please let the rest of us have our distribution our way, not your way.

Wow!
So you think our team should chose a difficult way instead of an easy way?
Quite innovative software development methodology
I will share this idea with our team leader and I promise to let you know his opinion


Well, "step in the right direction" is good, but I need a working solution, and I need it right now.
Besides, I just checked wikipedia - Runit stable release is 4 years ago.
As for s6 - no one in our team ever heared about it (we are *linux* developers, we don't care abour Solaris, sorry)
And apparently you didn't read my technical requirements, otherwise you wouldn't propose Runit.


Completely agree.


Hmm, let's say I envy your productivity ... still, would I have so much free time, instead of complaining on all forums how systemd sucks I would rather spend it on something useful ... like implementing another init system - a better one than systemd.

Then you wold become a hero - like L.P. for example
.

Oh, I did it (also here http://wiki.omgwtfroflol.com/doku.php )
I failed with Slackware 13.37, but it went surprisingly easy on 14.1
I built systemd-196, it worked perfectly, I only had some glitches with LVM but it was fixed in later releases.
It was fun, but I have no more time for experiments, need do job

So there are no other systemd distros you can use for a server, you have to wait for Slackware to switch to systemd...?
Good luck with that.
I made no such claim in fact.
If you know exactly what init system you want, then I don't see why you can't just use that init system? There are many distros which support it. Debian 8 will release with systemd as standard, I would have thought that this would be ideal for your boss' servers?

At the moment your posts are pretty much coming into McDonalds and whining for them to do Burger King...

If you did your research correctly Skarnet's s6 is for Linux, not Solaris. Look again, and learn proper implementation techniques. You did take the easy way out, and I could care less about your team and it's decisions, idealism, or lack of motivation.

In my point of view in contrast, over at LFS we took the hard way out by stepping blinding into the unknown, rolling the dice, and hitting problem after problem, but we're still a WIP project that is probably going to be WIP for quite some time, but at least we have our options, and our work is panning out. Hardly anyone had attempted a stand-alone Runit implementation. Nobody had done pure Runit. It was always backboned on sysvinit, and it's tools. By contrast again in my opinion, we chose wisely, and you chose poorly.

Lennart is no hero. He's just another wanna-be egotistical developer who's rapidly burning up his 15 minutes of fame, pushing bad ideas as good ideas to an ignorant audience using nothing more than propaganda and hear-say, fanboyisms, and mindless masses. He's a fadware author, nothing more. Pulseaudio was a fad, and now that fadware is dead and hated to many people. systemd is fadware and it's days are numbered also. Lennart also has a bad reputation for dumping projects off onto other when he looses interest, so keep that well in mind. Kay Sievers' days are numbered as far as Torvalds is concerned so I'm skeptical as to the lifespan of udev as well. Kdbus has been all but killed off and relegated to a patchwork no more tied to the kernel than Reiser4 is. A lot of the Linux community is not warm to the ideas of systemd also.

Just because mainstream Linux bahs like sheep and marches along in lock step through the turn-styles doesn't mean it's users and software developers do likewise.

And just so you actually learn something Mr. Sheep... This is Skarnet's s6... It's a fully custom to distribution init and service management system that is possibly the best stand-alone init and service management solution out there, but implementing it is total hellfire and brimstone of an effort. If I even could have figured it out and implemented it on LFS, I would have long ago when I started on Runit.

http://skarnet.org/software/s6/

Now please go bah someplace where your bahhing is welcomed.

1 members found this post helpful.

A fun thing to say, seeing that neither ssl779, nor you or anybody else (except AlienBob and a few others, maybe) have any influence about the course of Slackware.

And another fun thing to say. How can a software that is installed by default on almost any distro be dead and fadware? By the way, it is working fine for me, it has done so on Slackware and it does so on Gentoo. I doubt that this will be different on any of the other hundreds of distros that come with it by default.
Any other things your crystal ball has to tell us?
As far as I can see more and more distros use systemd, I can't see a decline in its usage.
I would give you that, if he wouldn't be paid to work on it. I doubt that Red Hat will allow him to suddenly change projects.
1. Kay Sievers has a chance to rehabilitate, he just have to show better behavior when it comes to bugreports. I think you have read the comment by Torvalds and you know that it was not a lifetime ban, but a ban that was tied to his behavior. You may also be shocked to hear that udev has more than one maintainer and that its other main developer, Greg Kroh-Hartmann, has no problems with Lins at all.
So I would think that your conclusions are a bit early at least, but still a bit far from reality.
Really. Would you please provide a link to a comment from a kernel authority that confirms that statement? Or is this also just a wishful conclusion from you?
If you compare the number of systemd based distros to the number of distros using other init systems it looks more like only a minority being opposed to systemd. You may want to check your numbers.
Mainstream Linux is what most software developers work for, not the niche distros. Also, users can do nothing more than switch distros when they are not satisfied with their current distro. So far I can't see a mass movement to non-systemd distros, I would rather guess that with Debian and Ubuntu switching to systemd the number of systemd users will double in the next years.
So it is the best of all, but impossible to implement? That doesn't sound very logical, it is like "I have the fastest car, but no one can drive it".

By the way, personal attacks on Lennart Poettering (which are pure hypocrisy from your side, remember your last reported post), or other members here, and telling them to go elsewhere (which 1. you are in no position to do, and 2. comes of as childish (you are seriously, in a discussion, telling people that don't share your opinion to leave the room?)) will not help your agenda at all, it just makes you look like another fanboy.

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Accepted. (it's just that you said I was not familiar with other init systems, so I decided you might know better)

Yes, they consider "Jessie"

Sorry, your joke not uderstood - I don't know who is Burger King since I eat healthy food and never visit McDonalds.

1 members found this post helpful.

No, not our way, and not your way. It will go Patrick's way

1 members found this post helpful.