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Old 10-04-2015, 05:51 PM   #1
bamunds
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Upgrade or update Kernel, what is which, and how to resolve a intermittent wlan


I was reading the thread about new kernel's for next Slackware release and realized that I don't understand all the terminological or know when a kernel update/upgrade might resolve problems I'm experiencing. Nor am I as familiar as I should be about kernel, kernel-modules, and configs. I've read Pat's included "build a generic kernel" step on the install disk. I've updated my 3.10.17 to 3.10.17-2 with Pat's slackpkg last year. I've even read Eric's howto upgrade a kernel. But I'm still a little fuzzy on where to get the correct files and if branch patches are an upgrade or update? Or if kernel branches are upgrades or updates? I'm hoping you all will guide me in my desire to better comprehend the terms and process(es) for each of branch upgrade, patches install, and searching kernel.org for bug fixes. This is particularly interesting to me now because since security patch upgrades in August and an upgraded to "ktown" my Netgear WNA1100 USB dongle with AR9271 chip is giving intermittent trouble, dropping the connection and refusing to restart with out a reboot! My setup is emachine AMD-64 with 4G of RAM and the Netgear and NVIDIA, Slackware 14.1 64 with multilib and multihead video. I'm using htc_9271.fw with the Netgear.

The first question, how do I scan kernels.org for bug fixes for a specific issue? Google doesn't seem to help and kernel.org search engine doesn't make sense to me. Is there another way?

If my two issue are addressed in later kernels, is upgrading from 3.10.17-2 to 3.10.94 the same process steps as moving from 3.10.17-2 to 3.14.y or 4.1.6?

Should I not upgrade to 4.1 since my 14.1 would need significant other tools recompiled?

Is upgrading the right term only when changing branches, ie. 3.10. to 3.12, and updating when adding patches? When upgrading or updating a kernel should I use AlienBob's on Slackware Docs process of upgrading kernel's or Pat's own explanation on the installation disk?

What repository has the kernel and kernel-modules and configs for each of the branches or patches?

Are the kernel and kernel-modules in the Slackware repository?

I read that I need a config to create a kernel from source with a config and to look on Slackware git for sample config's but I don't see one for 3.14 or 4.1.6 so how do I make the config I need for updates and upgrades?

I also have to incorporate a new update for my old NVIDIA card that just showed up in Slackbuilds. Which I believe I do after the update?

Advise for a novice is appreciated. I've read the Slackbook and searched the LQ, but I'm still confused with terminology, so please be patient with my inquiries.
Thanks
 
Old 10-04-2015, 07:59 PM   #2
ReaperX7
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Wi-Fi issues can be several things, so don't just upgrade software first without testing your router and signals.

So I have some questions:

1. How much stuff (walls, doors, etc.) is between you and the router?

2. Does your Router use DNSMasq (check the router setup for this)?

3. How old is your router?

4. Have you tested it with other operating systems (Windows, FreeBSD, etc.)?

5. Which connectivity software are you using (NetworkManager, dhcpcd, etc.)
 
Old 10-04-2015, 10:23 PM   #3
bamunds
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ReaperX7. Thanks for the checklist.
1. Router is one sheetrock wall away at about 30 feet. Signal link quality is 49/70 and 61 dBm at 54 Mbs when running.
2. Router is not using DNSMasq
3. Router is new, fault presents on old router and now new one in place now. I can't go to old router because it's dsl link is faulty.
4. Testing with laptop running Slackware 14.1 64 and internal Broadcom WiFi has no problem.
5. Using Network manager on both systems. With same setup.

Additionally, AR9271 is a USB BGN Dongle and router WIFI supports BGN and I have router restricted to B/G.
Problem happens regardless of the desktop environment.
I'm aware the AR9271 has an open driver, but I'm using the latest proprietary firmware which is htc_9271.fw
The problem started with the security updates from Slackware in August. But all updates have been applied to both computers and the laptop Broadcom is not experiencing the occasional hangs drops like the desktop.

dmesg gives me an "ath: phy2: unable to delete {access point mac} error when the device hangs.
When problem first occurred I thought it was due to the gnutls security update, which was only issued for the 64 bit and I was still running the older 32 bit for my WINE-pipelight connections. I contacted Eric and he quickly made the compat32 of the latest available, which was installed so both gnutls versions match. But the problem persist, which is why I'm wondering if a kernel update (thinking 3.10 series still) might be appropriate, but if a upgrade to 3.14 is same work I'll try which ever might address any WiFi or specifically AR9271 chipset issues. One other note the desktop has an Alcor Micro Corp Multimedia Card Reader that never works and is on the same USB Bus and causes repeat frequent reset high-speed USB device number x using ehci-pci. I've tried to find a correct driver, but have been told on here that Alcor driver is a tough one to find and install.

Additional ideas are appreciated.
 
Old 10-05-2015, 09:26 AM   #4
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamunds View Post
The first question, how do I scan kernels.org for bug fixes for a specific issue? Google doesn't seem to help and kernel.org search engine doesn't make sense to me. Is there another way?
I don't know of any site that easily indexes all the changes in the point releases (3.10.17 -> 3.10.18). You can typically find a few sites that will detail changes with the major releases (3.10 -> 3.11). Sometimes you'll get lucky when searching for an issue and a reply somewhere will state it is fixed in a particular kernel, but it doesn't always happen. There are a LOT of kernel releases, and people generally do not run every single one and they'll jump from one kernel to one that was released way later. When you think of all the active kernel branches right now, (according to wikipedia, there are nine active kernel releases right now with a total of 475 point releases between all of them -- there's been 290 point releases from the 3.10 kernel to the current, and that's not even including the older kernels that were still maintained beyond the 3.10 release). Some of those point fixes will be in all kernels, sometimes it may only affect one. It's just far too much work for a site to keep track of all the changes for all the kernels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamunds View Post
If my two issue are addressed in later kernels, is upgrading from 3.10.17-2 to 3.10.94 the same process steps as moving from 3.10.17-2 to 3.14.y or 4.1.6?
Yes, typically programs don't have issues with newer kernels (there are always exceptions, but they tend to not be frequent). The main difference in you updating to another kernel within 3.10, is you can typically use the same .config with little to no change (since those releases are only supposed to fix bugs, not introduce new features). When switching major releases (3.10 -> 3.14), you can use the same .config as a starting point, but options within the kernel config can change and be consolidated/split, along with features that were added or removed. Make sure you run something like make oldconfig and go through the options to find out what might need to be changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamunds View Post
Should I not upgrade to 4.1 since my 14.1 would need significant other tools recompiled?
I don't know of any packages with stock Slackware that would need to be recompiled with changing the kernel. However, some 3rd-party programs (typically ones that compile kernel modules like binary drivers or VMs like VirtualBox) would need to be recompiled. There are a few members on here that use a 4.1.x kernel on Slackware 14.1. I'm currently running 3.18.8 on my 14.1 system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamunds View Post
Is upgrading the right term only when changing branches, ie. 3.10. to 3.12, and updating when adding patches? When upgrading or updating a kernel should I use AlienBob's on Slackware Docs process of upgrading kernel's or Pat's own explanation on the installation disk?
I don't know if there is specific terminology for that (if there is, I'm not aware of it). Personally, upgrade and update are usually interchangable. Pat's instructions do not include getting that kernel installed (if you're talking about the README.txt in the source/k directory), nor building any modules. I'd recommend following Alien Bob's instructions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamunds View Post
What repository has the kernel and kernel-modules and configs for each of the branches or patches?
There aren't really any repositories short of the slackware directory on any mirror. Only the latest build of kernel/kernel module packages and the .config to compile them are provided in the -current tree. And with a stable tree, the original kernel will remain, and only the latest release of the kernel will be available in patches/ (if it was provided). Most of the time, you have the .config that is either in the current stable release or the -current release. The official Slackware trees don't keep any other .configs, although they may be available elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamunds View Post
Are the kernel and kernel-modules in the Slackware repository?
Answered above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamunds View Post
I read that I need a config to create a kernel from source with a config and to look on Slackware git for sample config's but I don't see one for 3.14 or 4.1.6 so how do I make the config I need for updates and upgrades?
I covered this further up, but essentially, currently, there are only two .configs available. The one from 14.1 for kernel 3.10.17, and the one from -current for kernel 4.1.6. AFAIK, it is not recommended to take .configs from newer kernels to use in older kernels, so it wouldn't be recommended to take the .config from 4.1.6 and use it to compile the 3.19 kernel, but it should be ok to use the 3.10.17 .config to compile a 4.0 kernel (although, there will be changes you'll need to make by going through the options. Making the config is done simply by running one of the configuration tools (make menuconfig|xconfig|etc) and then saving the .config when closing (I think most do it automatically, or will prompt you on closing to save it). However, the difficult part is knowing what to include when going through those menus. That's why it's a good idea to find a good .config to start from, and Pat's are great for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamunds View Post
I also have to incorporate a new update for my old NVIDIA card that just showed up in Slackbuilds. Which I believe I do after the update?
Any time the kernel is changed, any modules that were compiled for the older kernel, will need to be recompiled for the new kernel. This could include proprietary drivers, VMs, etc.
 
Old 10-05-2015, 08:35 PM   #5
bamunds
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Wow Bassmadrigal, that is a great response. You've covered my questions, and given me solid direction on making the evaluation of branch upgrade or patch release upgrades. It has really clarified my understanding of what I should consider, and cleared up that any change to the kernel is the same process, there is not easy upgrade, like the slackpkg that Pat provided for 3.10.17-2, ie no-one makes a slackpkg for later kernels. I just follow the same process for any kernel change, branch or patch. I'll print this out for reference along with AlienBob's upgrade process on Slackware Docs.

Just to make sure I have the right AlienBob article, is this the right one http://docs.slackware.com/howtos:sla...ernelbuilding?
Or http://docs.slackware.com/howtos:sla...systemupgrade?
Or both?

Is it correct that kernel-module or kernel-header files are not downloaded, but are created during the kernel compile process?
There are only two files which I need to start, a kernel and a config, correct?

Lastly, Regarding my WiFi issue. The changelog for 3.10.90 shows a fix for ath9, which is also in 3.14.54, but I don't see it in 3.18, does that mean that it was or wasn't included in the 3.18 and I should stay with 3.10 or 3.14? If I wanted to go to 3.14 or 3.18 I believe I still use the process of oldconfig, correct?

Thanks again for the wonderful advice again.
 
Old 10-06-2015, 07:09 AM   #6
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamunds View Post
Just to make sure I have the right AlienBob article, is this the right one http://docs.slackware.com/howtos:sla...ernelbuilding?
Or http://docs.slackware.com/howtos:sla...systemupgrade?
Or both?
The first covers kernel building while the second covers updating lilo (and your initrd, if required) if the kernel has been upgraded via slackpkg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamunds View Post
Is it correct that kernel-module or kernel-header files are not downloaded, but are created during the kernel compile process?
There are only two files which I need to start, a kernel and a config, correct?
That is correct. You technically don't even need a config, if you want to start completely from scratch (although, this is not an easy thing to do for a lot of people, including me), but otherwise, everything else will be included in the tarball downloaded from kernel.org. Also, just as a note, within Slackware, there are packages for the huge and generic kernels, the kernel modules, and the kernel headers. When you build your kernel it will compile modules that you specified, and the header files will remain in the source directory. Don't modify Slackware's "kernel-header" package, as that needs to remain on your system and is for glibc compatibility. They reside outside of the kernel's source and should remain unaffected when you build your own kernel. Just make sure you don't remove that package

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamunds View Post
Lastly, Regarding my WiFi issue. The changelog for 3.10.90 shows a fix for ath9, which is also in 3.14.54, but I don't see it in 3.18, does that mean that it was or wasn't included in the 3.18 and I should stay with 3.10 or 3.14? If I wanted to go to 3.14 or 3.18 I believe I still use the process of oldconfig, correct?
Generally, any kernels released after a particular patch is included, will contain that patch. But, the reason behind the lack of it in a changelog for 3.18 could be that the code between 3.14 and 3.18 changed enough, and fixed your issue and that a patch to 3.18 wasn't required. There's also a possibility that during the development of 3.18, a developer found some bad code, and fixed it before it was released. Then that fix added to previous kernels as a patch. (These are just speculations, I don't know the actual status of your driver.)
 
Old 10-07-2015, 10:47 PM   #7
bamunds
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Thanks, now I just have to decide which kernel to upgrade to. Decision criteria, a) lease disruptive to system b) still supports the hardware present in my older computer ex NVIDIA card c) corrects the problem with ath9K d) potential for PV to continue to issue critical patches, e) possible kernel for next Slackware release, and lastly f) my own risk aversion to being bleeding edge.

Kernel 3.10 = official 14.1, supports current hardware, fixes ath9K and ipv6, PV support for critical security issues, but is EOL, low risk
Kernel 3.14 = NOT 14.1, supports current hardware, fixes ath9k, NOT PV watched for security, is supported until Aug 2016, low risk
Kernel 3.18 = tested for -current, may support hardware, MAY fix ath9k, NOT PV security watched, supported to Jul 2017, medium risk
Kernel 4.1 = being tested in -current, may support hardware, May fix ath9k, uncertain of PV security watch, supported until Sep 2017, may introduce NVIDIA issues and high risk compared to alternatives.

Clearly 3.10.90 is the lowest risk and safest route. I'd like to upgrade to 3.14 but will then have to become responsible for kernel security advisories and potentially many patches, resulting from my paranoid risk aversion to any security issue, and there maybe an NVIDIA issue where I end up with Nouveau rather than NVIDIA acceleration. 3.18 would also be appealing but I'm not sure where to get a starting config since it no longer is in repository. To me 4.1 is a non-select since I'm reading many issues on this forum with 4.1 even though I know bassmadrigal is running it in at least one Slackware 14.1 incident.

I guess the answer for me is to first install 3.10.90 and then 3.14.latest, answering any new config questions and see if I have any issues with it.

I'm going to mark this solved in 24 hours unless the experts here feel I've messed or missed an issue to consider.

Last edited by bamunds; 10-08-2015 at 09:18 AM. Reason: spelling
 
Old 10-07-2015, 11:31 PM   #8
bassmadrigal
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I think if you go with a kernel that was supported at some point in Slackware-current (especially when it has been in there for several months), you're likely to find a kernel that has few problems (and possibly many fixes). I know a lot of users are running 4.1.6 in 14.1 without issue. That being said, if you're interested, I have my kernel config that I got from Pat for the 3.18 kernel. I don't remember what, if any, changes I made to the default config, but I doubt it was anything drastic. If you'd like to PM me your email, I can email you my copy. I think Pat used it for 3.18.4, but I last built the 3.18.8 kernel (I don't change my kernel often, because I don't like to reboot my machine, and I tend to stick to the adage, if it isn't broke, don't fix it).

As far as security updates to the kernel, you're likely to not see many from Pat. In the almost two years 14.1 has been out, Pat has issued one security patch for the 3.10.17 kernels. Granted, it was a pretty serious bug that could allow attackers access to the root shell, but there may have been many other kernel point releases that included security fixes that Pat deemed wasn't worth possibly breaking a system with an update. If you're serious about kernel security issues, I'd recommend seeing if there's an email list you can subscribe to so you know when the flaws are found and fixed.
 
Old 10-08-2015, 09:36 AM   #9
bamunds
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Again thanks bassmadrigal, your assistance and advice are always clear and educational.
 
  


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