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Old 07-07-2018, 02:51 AM   #16
chrisretusn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Possibly more accurately GAMING, not just Steam (or any 3d acceleration and some 2D as well) wants them.
What I said was accurate for my setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phalange View Post
If you're currently running nvidia drivers in slackware, I'd be interested in experiences / thoughts / musings.
 
Old 07-07-2018, 11:06 AM   #17
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisretusn View Post
What I said was accurate for my setup.
If I offended you that wasn't my intent. It might be interesting to know if you have used nouveau, or any other driver, for any length of time to compare your complete experience to that with the nvidia driver. I merely took note of your statement that if not for Steam you wouldn't install the nvidia driver and wondered why. Perhaps it is because it is proprietary and you would prefer a completely FOSS system? or is there another reason, especially one that my be of interest or concern to OP?
 
Old 07-07-2018, 11:44 PM   #18
chrisretusn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
If I offended you that wasn't my intent. It might be interesting to know if you have used nouveau, or any other driver, for any length of time to compare your complete experience to that with the nvidia driver. I merely took note of your statement that if not for Steam you wouldn't install the nvidia driver and wondered why. Perhaps it is because it is proprietary and you would prefer a completely FOSS system? or is there another reason, especially one that my be of interest or concern to OP?
I took no offense. I have used the nouveau driver, it's part of Slackware. In fact before I decided to give Steam a go I was using the nouveau driver. It has nothing to do with FOSS, I have other proprietary software installed. It's really simple. I use the NVIDIA driver because Steam requires it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phalange View Post
I don't play games in Slackware (aside from a few low-tech k-games) or render video.
If this was me (it was me few years ago, minus the games part) I wouldn't bother with installing NVIDIA, since the nouveau drivers work just fine. I see no real gain.

I have installed some software (i.e., Blender and Kdenlive) for example since installing Steam that may benefit from the proprietary driver. If I loose interest in Steam, I will reevaluate the need for NVIDIA.

Was that what you was looking for?

Last edited by chrisretusn; 07-12-2018 at 10:16 PM. Reason: spelling
 
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Old 07-08-2018, 12:20 AM   #19
ReaperX7
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I use the Nouveau EGL driver through modesetting with glamor enabled with my GTX 460 machine. Works fine here. As far as Steam goes... Steam is only looking for a driver that supports texture compression. So if you have a recent s3tc enabled Mesa3D package or libtxc_dxtn installed, you should be able to use Steam with Nouveau without a problem unless they changed it to specifically look for the Nvidia drivers.
 
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Old 07-08-2018, 06:58 AM   #20
chrisretusn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperX7 View Post
I use the Nouveau EGL driver through modesetting with glamor enabled with my GTX 460 machine. Works fine here. As far as Steam goes... Steam is only looking for a driver that supports texture compression. So if you have a recent s3tc enabled Mesa3D package or libtxc_dxtn installed, you should be able to use Steam with Nouveau without a problem unless they changed it to specifically look for the Nvidia drivers.
Interesting. I just tested this. I checked to see if s3tc was enabled in mesa (18.1.3)

Code:
glxinfo | grep s3tc
    GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc, GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic, 
    GL_OES_EGL_image, GL_S3_s3tc
    GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc, GL_EXT_texture_cube_map, 
    GL_OES_EGL_image, GL_OES_read_format, GL_S3_s3tc,
Doing some reading, guess the patent has expired on the s3tc driver. The libtxc_dxtn you mentioned is no longer maintained. With s3tc part of mesa, not needed anyway. So... I....

Removed the NVIDIA blob, reinstalled mesa and xorg-server, removed the blacklist on the nouveau package upgraded xf86-video-nouveau-blacklist to xf86-video-nouveau and reboot.

Steam started as usual... check that, startx faster than usual, I tested with three games, all played with zero issues. Guess what I am going to do now. ;-)

Nothing more. I like what I am seeing so far without the NVIDIA blob installed.

@enorbet, thought of another reason I prefer not to use the NVIDIA driver, not part of Slackware.

Last edited by chrisretusn; 07-08-2018 at 07:00 AM.
 
Old 07-08-2018, 09:41 AM   #21
enorbet
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FWIW nobody needs to justify using the FOSS nouveau driver. It's a matter of choice. It is only important to realize that the nouveau driver cannot compete with the performance of nvidia's own driver, especially where acceleration is involved and doubly especially where that is in 3D mode.
 
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Old 07-09-2018, 05:24 AM   #22
chrisretusn
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Still trying for figure out who is trying to justify FOSS.

Right now I have switched to the nouveau driver. Several reasons I prefer the nouveau driver. The primary reason is it's stock Slackware. Another is not having to reinstall the NVIDIA (or AMD) driver after an update to mesa or xorg-server. With -current kernel updates are fairly regular. It not that big a deal for me though because I still have run mkinitrd and set links for lilo but it is one less thing to forget that can cause problems.

Interesting point @enorbet about performance, I am thinking when I get around to learning more how to use Blender I suspect I may have to go back to the NVIDIA drivers. Right now all the games I play on Steam work well, in fact I appears to me at least better with the nouveau driver.

Last edited by chrisretusn; 07-12-2018 at 10:16 PM. Reason: spelling
 
Old 07-09-2018, 09:18 AM   #23
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisretusn View Post
Still trying for figure out who is trying to justify FOSS.
Let's be careful and specific here since nobody is even considering justifying all of FOSS just one specific instance of it, and the largesse and effectiveness of the GPL to accommodate both FOSS and proprietary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisretusn View Post
Right now I have switched to the nouveau driver. Several reasons I prefer the nouveau driver. The primary reason is it's stock Slackware. Another is not having to reinstall the NVIDIA (or AMD) driver after an update to mesa or xorg-server. With -current kernel updates are fairly regular. It not that big a deal for me though because I still have run mkinitrd and set links for lilo but it is one less thing to forget that can cause problems.
This demonstrates taste, why both chocolate and vanilla still exist as alternatives. None of what you mention applies to my system. I never use an initrd. I build a custom new but stable kernel almost immediately upon installing a new stable release of Slackware, update existing software only as security patches until a new release and stick with that custom kernel unless something unusually compelling comes along, and I care almost nothing for whether or not something is included "stock" in Slackware. It seems to me that is exactly why there is a fairly massive repository of Slackpkg's to accommodate different requirements on top of what is "stock".

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisretusn View Post
Interesting point @enorbet about performance, I am thinking when I get around to learning more how to use Blender I suspect I may have to go back to the NVIDEA drivers. Right now all the games I play on Steam work well, in fact I appears to me at least better with the nouveau driver.
This is indeed very interesting... so much so I'd like to know more. What games? Any performance benchmarks? I'd especially like to see a base suite test like that in Unigine Heaven.
 
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:41 AM   #24
orbea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisretusn View Post
Another is not having to reinstall the NVIDIA (or AMD) driver after an update to mesa or xorg-server.
This is only a problem with the Nvidia blob, the well supported AMD drivers are part of mesa and better supported than nouveau since AMD pays developers to work on it with access to documentation. Some nouveau developers will suggest people to buy AMD instead of Nvidia even.

The proprietary AMD drivers are known to be really bad and shouldn't be used by the average person.

This article is somewhat old, but the section on the proprietary AMD drivers is fairly relevant.

https://dolphin-emu.org/blog/2013/09...all-fameshame/

Personally I use nouveau because I like mesa and would rather talk to a real person when something breaks, but I would not buy another Nvidia card.

Last edited by orbea; 07-09-2018 at 09:44 AM.
 
Old 07-09-2018, 03:11 PM   #25
chrisretusn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Let's be careful and specific here since nobody is even considering justifying all of FOSS just one specific instance of it, and the largesse and effectiveness of the GPL to accommodate both FOSS and proprietary.
You "were" the first to mention it.

Quote:
This demonstrates taste, why both chocolate and vanilla still exist as alternatives. None of what you mention applies to my system. I never use an initrd. I build a custom new but stable kernel almost immediately upon installing a new stable release of Slackware, update existing software only as security patches until a new release and stick with that custom kernel unless something unusually compelling comes along, and I care almost nothing for whether or not something is included "stock" in Slackware. It seems to me that is exactly why there is a fairly massive repository of Slackpkg's to accommodate different requirements on top of what is "stock".
Well basically I was responding to the OP's request, at your encouragememt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phalange View Post
If you're currently running nvidia drivers in slackware, I'd be interested in experiences / thoughts / musings.
I "am" currently running NVIDIA drivers in Slackware, my post are my experiences, thoughts and musings.

They do not apply to you. You are not the OP. Great you build a custom kernel, I have no need to do so, the generic suits me just fine. I use initrd for a reason, on this computer it's jfs. I don't use stable either. I've been running with -current for years. When I say stock, I mean a Full Install of packages that are part of Slackware. It has nothing to do with adding packages that are not part of Slackware. I have plenty of non-Slackware packages installed on my system. I am well aware the massive repository of SlackBuilds and other repositories of packages. My local repository currently has around 116 packages in it, a few of those are from Alien Bob, with the exception of libreoffice, are built using his SlackBuild. The rest are created from my own SlackBuilds. Alien Bob's multilib and ktown (testing) are also installed. Out side of running ktown, I rarely replace a Slackware package with another unless there is a need for it. Right now on this system there are two, ffmpeg in which I use Alien Bob's SlackBuild and the NVIDIA driver that replaces the the nouveau driver.

Quote:
This is indeed very interesting... so much so I'd like to know more. What games? Any performance benchmarks? I'd especially like to see a base suite test like that in Unigine Heaven.
Okay I'll bite. I play Dota2, Team Fortress 2 and Codename CURE on Steam right now. No performance benchmarks available. These game play well, that is all that matters. I just recently rendered a kdenlive project I have. It's a 2:25 video with some edits. With nouveau it took 13:42 to complete with NVIDIA 13:04. That's only one run, so not really much meaning to it. Right now I am rendering a Blender project I downloaded to test. It has been chugging along now for about 4 hours. When it's done, I will revert back to the nouveau drive and do it again. Bench marks are subjective, much depending on hardware, not really gonna bother with that as it serves no purpose for me since I sort of stuck with the hardware that I have.

Last edited by chrisretusn; 07-12-2018 at 10:17 PM. Reason: spelling
 
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:25 PM   #26
chrisretusn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbea View Post
This is only a problem with the Nvidia blob, the well supported AMD drivers are part of mesa and better supported than nouveau since AMD pays developers to work on it with access to documentation. Some nouveau developers will suggest people to buy AMD instead of Nvidia even.

The proprietary AMD drivers are known to be really bad and shouldn't be used by the average person.

This article is somewhat old, but the section on the proprietary AMD drivers is fairly relevant.

https://dolphin-emu.org/blog/2013/09...all-fameshame/

Personally I use nouveau because I like mesa and would rather talk to a real person when something breaks, but I would not buy another Nvidia card.
I guess I should rip out my NVIDIA card and replace it with AMD. <grin> Yes the AMD blob, if I read you right, is indeed terrible. I tried it my sons computer with AMD Video built-in so he could use Steam. That computer now has a NVIDIA card. (That was before mesa added s3tc, thus the nouveau driver was not enough.). Usually if something breaks with the NVIDIA drivers it only a few days before it's fix. Last event was kernel related. I can live with that. If I was use 14.2 that would not have been an issue, it only affected -current. My next care will most likely be NVIDIA, "but" I may consider AMD as it does seem that things have improved a lot. I remember with NVIDIA was the only card to use for Linux, ATI was crap. Maybe that tuning around.

Edit: On a whim, I looked to see if I still had that AMD blob. Yes I do, it was amd-driver-installer-catalyst-13.1-legacy-linux-x86.x86_64.run also download the .zip.

Last edited by chrisretusn; 07-12-2018 at 10:18 PM. Reason: See Edit:
 
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:03 AM   #27
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Go with the Nvidia drivers you cant beat them. I prefer nvidea video cards and amd cpu's now if someone could make a notebook with amd cpu and nvidia gpu.
 
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:33 AM   #28
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisretusn View Post
Okay I'll bite. I play Dota2, Team Fortress 2 and Codename CURE on Steam right now. No performance benchmarks available. These game play well, that is all that matters. I just recently rendered a kdenlive project I have. It's a 2:25 video with some edits. With nouveau it took 13:42 to complete with NVIDEA 13:04. That's only one run, so not really much meaning to it. Right now I am rendering a Blender project I downloaded to test. It has been chugging along now for about 4 hours. When it's done, I will revert back to the nouveau drive and do it again. Bench marks are subjective, much depending on hardware, not really gonna bother with that as it serves no purpose for me since I sort of stuck with the hardware that I have.
Now that is interesting both to me and I'd wager also OP. Thank you.. Also I suspect you are on target about hardware since I find vast differences between performance of the two drivers on my GTX 1070 Ti but another system I have with a GT630 has very similar performance with either driver. I think that stands to reason since what nVidia is trying to protect most is their newest technology making it difficult for the boys at nouveau to "catch up".
 
Old 07-10-2018, 07:03 AM   #29
Regnad Kcin
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The nvidia driver works good for me.
The nouveau driver does allow me to operate a nvidia card off of a new install of slackware but
the nvidia driver generally works a lot better for me.

I had to pay money to get a Nvidia card but they provide the drivers for free and
continue to update them. indeed i must run their install script after each new kernel upgrade
but honestly i can handle it.

I am much too busy to play computer games and frankly i find them sort of repetitive and boring
but I use a lot of hirez pictures in my work.

my motherboards usually come with an intel video card on board which is similarly
functional but not good enough for some stuff we do.

I use Slackware64 because I like the way that it works.
 
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:34 PM   #30
enorbet
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Well, Regand Kcin, I'm betting you use Slackware because you find it, like Rocky Roccoco, "at your cervix" It's DANGERous!

(I apologize for the OT response but I just can't resist some classic, albeit obscure, comedy)
 
  


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